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Jeremy11

Not SQ but not SPL?

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Is there such a thing? A stereo that is clear and sounds good but also loud? Something like a hybrid of the 2? 

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1 minute ago, Jeremy11 said:

Is there such a thing? A stereo that is clear and sounds good but also loud? Something like a hybrid of the 2? 

yep, thats where decent PA style raw drivers and a very tunable DSP comes into play

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5 hours ago, Jeremy11 said:

Is there such a thing? A stereo that is clear and sounds good but also loud? Something like a hybrid of the 2? 

huge cone area, SQ enclosure tuning, based around cabin peak frequency and subwoofer TS parameters with lots of watts. for an SUV lets say at least 4 15s walled on 10k. heavy DSP action and lots of midbass cone area talking about 12s in your door with sensitivity levels higher than 94-95 db, 4-6.5 dedicated midranges on your A pillars or lower door panels(shielded from the midbass) and tweeters up top, can go with some 92 db sensitivity or higher tweets try to avoid super tweets, if you do go supers, get alphard, they are the smoothest super tweets i've heard to date. It'll basically 3 way active front stage usually needs two 4 channel amps. One bridged to the midbass, the other for mid and tweeter at least 125+ watts rms per channel and a fk ton more for bridged.  You always want more output than you ever need so you can just lower the volume down and keep everything heat/stress free which usually means distortion free and when you need to show someone up, you can send that shit and fk em up at your leisure. You can always lower the sub level down till it blends with the midbass. Key important part is MIDBASS which most spl setups have ZERO of. 

 

A DSP is vital. Get a dayton audio dsp. Sh*ts absolutely bonkers and amazing, forget any mention of head units, the dayton DSP even sh*ts on my 80 prs which is a known audiophile head unit with good SQ. Shits on as in 80 prs fully tuned, vs dayton out of the box, the dayton sounds better with no eq work and some basic crossover points.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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On 1/28/2019 at 1:39 AM, Jeffdachef said:

huge cone area, SQ enclosure tuning, based around cabin peak frequency and subwoofer TS parameters with lots of watts. for an SUV lets say at least 4 15s walled on 10k. heavy DSP action and lots of midbass cone area talking about 12s in your door with sensitivity levels higher than 94-95 db, 4-6.5 dedicated midranges on your A pillars or lower door panels(shielded from the midbass) and tweeters up top, can go with some 92 db sensitivity or higher tweets try to avoid super tweets, if you do go supers, get alphard, they are the smoothest super tweets i've heard to date. It'll basically 3 way active front stage usually needs two 4 channel amps. One bridged to the midbass, the other for mid and tweeter at least 125+ watts rms per channel and a fk ton more for bridged.  You always want more output than you ever need so you can just lower the volume down and keep everything heat/stress free which usually means distortion free and when you need to show someone up, you can send that shit and fk em up at your leisure. You can always lower the sub level down till it blends with the midbass. Key important part is MIDBASS which most spl setups have ZERO of. 

 

A DSP is vital. Get a dayton audio dsp. Sh*ts absolutely bonkers and amazing, forget any mention of head units, the dayton DSP even sh*ts on my 80 prs which is a known audiophile head unit with good SQ. Shits on as in 80 prs fully tuned, vs dayton out of the box, the dayton sounds better with no eq work and some basic crossover points.

how do you really feel about the dayton dsp? ;)

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3 hours ago, youdoofus said:

how do you really feel about the dayton dsp? ;)

makes the rockford dsr1 DSP look like an absolute joke. This dayton dsp is probably one of the best upgrades anyone can ever do to their setup. Even if you have a nice pioneer/kenwood double din. 


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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On 1/30/2019 at 4:29 PM, Jeffdachef said:

makes the rockford dsr1 DSP look like an absolute joke. This dayton dsp is probably one of the best upgrades anyone can ever do to their setup. Even if you have a nice pioneer/kenwood double din. 

I was on the fence about getting a Dayton dsp because I already have a pioneer with active crossovers but I think you have talked me into trying it. 

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On 2/1/2019 at 7:20 PM, Aslmx said:

I was on the fence about getting a Dayton dsp because I already have a pioneer with active crossovers but I think you have talked me into trying it. 

just make sure you go through the blutetooth dongle to dsp.  going RCA to the Dayton DSP will result in some garbage @ss sound. Basically if you go the dsp, you are eliminating the head unit out of the equation completely or else you are still stuck with the head unit's DAC.

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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So using the rcas in my dayton dsp is a waste of time....? And Bluetooth is the only way to go 

On 2/3/2019 at 8:14 PM, Jeffdachef said:

just make sure you go through the blutetooth dongle to dsp.  going RCA to the Dayton DSP will result in some garbage @ss sound. Basically if you go the dsp, you are eliminating the head unit out of the equation completely or else you are still stuck with the head unit's DAC.

 

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12 hours ago, bajbass said:

So using the rcas in my dayton dsp is a waste of time....? And Bluetooth is the only way to go 

 

pretty much. 

lossless files on a usb or store bought CD from my 80 prs head unit stand alone or head unit low level or high level to the DSP  soounds worse than spotify premium bluetooth streaming on the dsp dongle. Just to give some perspective.  The RCAs are louder but more distorted and harsh. The bluetooth is still loud with some minor gain adjustments but absolutely fking smooth like butter sound even if you have sh*tty speakers.

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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15 hours ago, Jeffdachef said:

pretty much. 

lossless files on a usb or store bought CD from my 80 prs head unit stand alone or head unit low level or high level to the DSP  soounds worse than spotify premium bluetooth streaming on the dsp dongle. Just to give some perspective.  The RCAs are louder but more distorted and harsh. The bluetooth is still loud with some minor gain adjustments but absolutely fking smooth like butter sound even if you have sh*tty speakers.

They should allow the DSP usb port to accept usb 2.0/3.0 drives or Bluetooth. Bluetooth has come a long way but has its limitations still. I would take usb wired device over RCA and Bluetooth. That is just me though and my limited experience.  However, I find it hard to believe Bluetooth over RCA unless your streaming device is top notch.  What revision of bluetooth is the source may I ask?  It has to be supporting a higher standard to get the use, 2018 was when bluetooth started to turn around so unless your phone or bluetooth device supports the better standard it may be a trial and error to see what sounds best. 

 

Edit: Or maybe this Dayton DSP does have some magic buried inside of it to let it compensate..?

Edited by nate0

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1 hour ago, nate0 said:

They should allow the DSP usb port to accept usb 2.0/3.0 drives or Bluetooth. Bluetooth has come a long way but has its limitations still. I would take usb wired device over RCA and Bluetooth. That is just me though and my limited experience.  However, I find it hard to believe Bluetooth over RCA unless your streaming device is top notch.  What revision of bluetooth is the source may I ask?  It has to be supporting a higher standard to get the use, 2018 was when bluetooth started to turn around so unless your phone or bluetooth device supports the better standard it may be a trial and error to see what sounds best. 

 

Edit: Or maybe this Dayton DSP does have some magic buried inside of it to let it compensate..?

Yea the dayton dsp uses Bluetooth 4.0 aptx so the sound quality suppose to be near or equal to cd quality or so they claim...well i tried it with my phone with flac files and it didnt sound too bad at all  

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I have the Dayton 408 DSP and JL TwK 88. The JL is easier to setup and tune with but the Dayton will get you sonically the same results. Watch out with the time alignment though. Depending on the firmware update you might be better off using an online time alignment calculator and inputting the delay in ms vs inch’s. There is a huge thread on it over at DIYMobileAudio. 


2014 Sienna 2-way active SQ system. SB Acoustics SB29RDCN Tweeters. Focal PS165V mid woofers. Pioneer D9500F 75 watts RMS x 4. Pioneer BHS 5800 HU. Dayton Audio 408 DSP. 10” Alpine SWS sub in custom ported box tuned to 35 hz, JBL GTX 500.

2014 F-150 XL WT 2-way active SQ system. AudioFrog GB10 tweeters. Stock Ford 6x8 mid woofers. Pioneer D8604. JBL Club 5501. JL Audio Twk 88 DSP & FIX 86. Sundown SD3 10” sub ported/ 33Hz 1 cube.

2014 CX5 2-way active SQ system. Pioneer 1330 NIX HU. AudioFrog GB15 tweeters. AudioFrog GB60. Rockford Ti600.4. Rockford Ti1500. JL Audio Twk 88 DSP. AudioFrog GB12D2” 1.8 cube/33Hz.

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Just got my Dayton DSP in the mail today. Gonna hook it up both ways to see the difference in sq. Question I have is, if I have imaging tweeters along with a set of regular tweets should I keep them running passive and only the driver and main tweet active or run all active? Not sure how I would wire all active with only a 4 channel amp. 

Edited by C-LocJiggleNuts
Misspelled

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4 hours ago, nate0 said:

They should allow the DSP usb port to accept usb 2.0/3.0 drives or Bluetooth. Bluetooth has come a long way but has its limitations still. I would take usb wired device over RCA and Bluetooth. That is just me though and my limited experience.  However, I find it hard to believe Bluetooth over RCA unless your streaming device is top notch.  What revision of bluetooth is the source may I ask?  It has to be supporting a higher standard to get the use, 2018 was when bluetooth started to turn around so unless your phone or bluetooth device supports the better standard it may be a trial and error to see what sounds best. 

 

Edit: Or maybe this Dayton DSP does have some magic buried inside of it to let it compensate..?

Its more in the lines of when you are going head unit to DSP, you have too many things in the signal line and too much sound colouration from both sources, yes a pioneer head unit will sound different from a kenwood or clarion or alpine out the box flat and you subject that to the dayton's sound signature too leads to some bad distortion just from pure internal DAC colouration of sound.  In all kinds of testing with all 3 setups I've installed this dayton DSP in, the bluetooth dongle is the best smoothest sound quality by far. The dongle is just bluetooth 4.0 but supports aptx and the clients phones and my personal phone all support bluetooth 5.0 and qualcomm aptx HD , iphone 8, galaxy note 8 and one plus 6t which actually triggers when connected to the dsp. There's no audio difference going from the Iphone to my one plus on one setup and no difference from note 8 to my one plus as long as we dont mess with any EQ apps on the phone.

With the dongle you are getting direct signal straight to the DSP and only go through the DSP's DAC which allows for a cleaner purer sound because the DAC is WAAAAY better than the ones used in head units IMO. Ideally you want as little things in the signal line as possible and a direct pure source that can output the highest resolution signal to the amps.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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12 minutes ago, C-LocJiggleNuts said:

Just my Dayton DSP in the mail today. Gonna hook it up both ways to see the difference in sq. Question I have is, if I have imaging tweeters along with a set of regular tweets should I keep them running passive and only the driver and main tweet active or run all active? Not sure how I would wire all active with only a 4 channel amp. 

just like how you should not mix different subs brands and sizes in a car, its the exact same thing for tweeters. Use the better one of the two and get rid of the other.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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They are all the same brand and came as part of a “kit” sort of speak. CDT Audio. I don’t want to lose sound quality because I ditched the “imaging” tweeters  I don’t know if I would or not  just a statement  CB51BA85-A284-4977-9274-6E95649B9964.thumb.jpeg.0b63f13e5d310506762a45e1fd1386eb.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Jeffdachef said:

Its more in the lines of when you are going head unit to DSP, you have too many things in the signal line and too much sound colouration from both sources, yes a pioneer head unit will sound different from a kenwood or clarion or alpine out the box flat and you subject that to the dayton's sound signature too leads to some bad distortion just from pure internal DAC colouration of sound.  In all kinds of testing with all 3 setups I've installed this dayton DSP in, the bluetooth dongle is the best smoothest sound quality by far. The dongle is just bluetooth 4.0 but supports aptx and the clients phones and my personal phone all support bluetooth 5.0 and qualcomm aptx HD , iphone 8, galaxy note 8 and one plus 6t which actually triggers when connected to the dsp. There's no audio difference going from the Iphone to my one plus on one setup and no difference from note 8 to my one plus as long as we dont mess with any EQ apps on the phone.

With the dongle you are getting direct signal straight to the DSP and only go through the DSP's DAC which allows for a cleaner purer sound because the DAC is WAAAAY better than the ones used in head units IMO. Ideally you want as little things in the signal line as possible and a direct pure source that can output the highest resolution signal to the amps.

Thanks for sharing more about your experience with it. I have a Chinese Amp/DSP made by Recoil that I have not hooked up yet. 1 because I know I may be disappointed and two there is no support for it, no Control software, no English manual, etc.  So I have been curious how a true DSP performs and should act before I go install this one.  I may end up trying to sell it and put that difference towards the Dayton. I really want to get away from using my head unit and have been trying to ever since last summer.

Edited by nate0

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1 hour ago, C-LocJiggleNuts said:

They are all the same brand and came as part of a “kit” sort of speak. CDT Audio. I don’t want to lose sound quality because I ditched the “imaging” tweeters  I don’t know if I would or not  just a statement  

the set just shows a two way set which includes pair of mid and a pair of tweet. Why is there another pair of tweeters in the equation? 

I was telling you to get rid of the regular tweeter not the imaging tweeters which i assume is higher up by the A pillar area.

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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Not sure why they call it a two way kit when there is technically 3 sets. The imaging tweets mount to the windshield up in the top corners and point towards the center of the dash in a 45 degree angle. The main tweeters are in the lower a pillar. The passive xover has 3 separate inputs also. 

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12 minutes ago, C-LocJiggleNuts said:

Not sure why they call it a two way kit when there is technically 3 sets. The imaging tweets mount to the windshield up in the top corners and point towards the center of the dash in a 45 degree angle. The main tweeters are in the lower a pillar. The passive xover has 3 separate inputs also. 

looks like it'll be a mess for imaging and time alignment in all honesty.  You'll want a separate 2 channel amp to control the other tweeter so you can time align it individually from the other tweeter. I'm guessing tonality would be similar and be fine since its in the same set. However time alignment is key for SQ, if they are in different spots in the car, you cannot use the same time alignment, EQ and crossover points based on the reflections and distance issues you face.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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