Best midrange/vocal component speakers around 150 dollars

1995Tercel
10+ year member

Junior Member
35
0
SW Utah
I finally got my 4 6.5" Polk db651 speakers amped, and I am disappointed. I hoped that amping would help with instrument separation, the midrange clarity, vocals (especially lower female) and overall hollowness of the sound. It only seems to have helped separation, and added a nice "rip" to 2-4k and siblant highs.

I don't have enough money for really good speakers, so I figure I'll start with upgrading each 2-way door speakers to 4" components? I'm not concerned with volume, but smooth silky vocals, zero muddiness, and substance (not a thin hollow sound)

From what I understand, many components come with a separate tweeter as well, and an external crossover?

Thank you for your recommendations

 
If you didn't prep your doors (sound deadening etc.)for the polks that should be your 1st step. If you prep it right they'll sound a lot better. 

If you're still not happy your doors will already be prepped for a swap. Components in the front coaxial in the rear. The comps will come with a passive crossover mount that somewhere inside the car.They will come with separate tweeters.

What amplifier are you using?

Best mid range is subjective. I like the morel maximos in that price rang 

If you don't prep your doors whatever you put in there  will most likely  be a disappointment. 

 
If you didn't prep your doors (sound deadening etc.)for the polks that should be your 1st step. If you prep it right they'll sound a lot better. 

Not yet, i have read conflicting anectdotes about the frequencies it helps with, most are saying it helps with mid bass? I was planning on doing some insulation anyways, foam behind the speaker and some sort of mat to cover the holes. 

If you're still not happy your doors will already be prepped for a swap. Components in the front coaxial in the rear. The comps will come with a passive crossover mount that somewhere inside the car.They will come with separate tweeters.

What amplifier are you using? Rf prime 400d i think, 586 rms sheet

Best mid range is subjective. I like the morel maximos in that price rang 

If you don't prep your doors whatever you put in there  will most likely  be a disappointment. 
Thsnks i will check those out and also tackle doors. 

Are those morels tweeters siblant? I am very sensitive.

 
Thsnks i will check those out and also tackle doors. 

Are those morels tweeters siblant? I am very sensitive.
The polks may not be as bad as you think. You don't have to use the most expensive sound deadening. Nioco on Amazon is 60/70 dollars a box.There's some decent videos on YouTube on how to install. Seal off the doors any holes in the panel. Fast rings or equivalent. I found something at lowes once. Think it was a garage door seal. Looked just like fast rings anyway Worked pretty good.

The morels are probably right up you alley if I had to guess. They're not harsh to my ears or my wife's ears at all.

You'll want soft/silk fabric dome tweeters. Something with a fairly low sensitivity rating. The morels are rated at 90.5 db but it's at 2.83 volts vs 1 watt they're probably around 86/87 db at 1 watt. So pay attention to how companies rate their sensitivity.

Your set up is important amp gain eq tweeters position. Try some different locations before you install them. Double sided tape works pretty good for that. You might like them a little off axis if your ears are that sensitive 

 
The polks may not be as bad as you think. You don't have to use the most expensive sound deadening. Nioco on Amazon is 60/70 dollars a box.There's some decent videos on YouTube on how to install. Seal off the doors any holes in the panel. Fast rings or equivalent. I found something at lowes once. Think it was a garage door seal. Looked just like fast rings anyway Worked pretty good.

The morels are probably right up you alley if I had to guess. They're not harsh to my ears or my wife's ears at all.

You'll want soft/silk fabric dome tweeters. Something with a fairly low sensitivity rating. The morels are rated at 90.5 db but it's at 2.83 volts vs 1 watt they're probably around 86/87 db at 1 watt. So pay attention to how companies rate their sensitivity.

Your set up is important amp gain eq tweeters position. Try some different locations before you install them. Double sided tape works pretty good for that. You might like them a little off axis if your ears are that sensitive 


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076MM4DJV/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BKKZ1AM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=AXJ5VNOZL83GP&psc=1

I have these in my cart. Am I understanding correctly that the fast rings have adhesive on all three foam parts?

I will try installing the sound deadening around all four speakers, then see how I like it. Although I dont like the idea of wasting 10 dollars per speaker on the fast rings, it doesnt look like its reuseable.

I agree on the tweeters, although I haven't heard a ribbon tweeter, and probably never will. I currently have the tweeters in the polks angled away from me, but as I"m sure you know, glass is terrible for reflections, and I just get trapped in this high frequency bath.

The Noico seems to be a product that reduces the resonance of the metal in the door, so it doesnt have to cover a whole panel, to save weight and material?

Thanks for your input and explanations, I think I'm going in the right direction

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah there's adhesive on the rings. You'll probably have to trim them some to fit. 

Use your own judgment on how much to use. Personally I'd use the whole box lol. I even do the inside of the plastic panel. Just think of your doors as a speaker box. Seal it off. Watch some videos some people do the minimum some go all out 

Just the sound deadening should improve the mid range. Sounds like tweeters are a problem though. I'd hold off on installing the rings if you don't think you can re-use. You could use the piece that goes behind the speakers. Sounds like separate components will be the direction you'll probably end up going 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076MM4DJV/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BKKZ1AM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=AXJ5VNOZL83GP&psc=1

I have these in my cart. Am I understanding correctly that the fast rings have adhesive on all three foam parts?

I will try installing the sound deadening around all four speakers, then see how I like it. Although I dont like the idea of wasting 10 dollars per speaker on the fast rings, it doesnt look like its reuseable.

I agree on the tweeters, although I haven't heard a ribbon tweeter, and probably never will. I currently have the tweeters in the polks angled away from me, but as I"m sure you know, glass is terrible for reflections, and I just get trapped in this high frequency bath.

The Noico seems to be a product that reduces the resonance of the metal in the door, so it doesnt have to cover a whole panel, to save weight and material?

Thanks for your input and explanations, I think I'm going in the right direction

 
Some 3/8" weatherstrip around the grill on the backside of the door panel is what I did. My 6x9 to 6.5 plates hits the weatherstrip for a nice seal between the two. 

 
You can only use 4" speakers? What kind of car it is? 4-inch speakers often take a hit in efficiency.

Also, I'd like to say that Polk DB series speakers are mediocre at best........ but you options are limited with 4-inch components. Focal used to have some good ones in the Kevlar series, but they will be pricey.

Edit: oh, and you have coax - yes, you really need to look at component speakers if you are lookign for sound quality.........coaxes skimp on the crossover...........a good crossover is needed for a flat response, which is very important.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vehicle is 2000 Honda Insight. It has 4 factory speaker locations, all of which are 6.5" ish. I only mentioned the smaller diameter components because I don't know what size speaker is best. I assumed the larger 6.5 size would have less clear vocals, and more pronounced mid and high bass. I am for sure replacing the polks with some components. I can't listen for extended periods of time, they are very painful.

I listen to all genres... classical (solos to full symphonies) electronic (25hz bass music, to older dubstep, to lighter bouncy stuff with pop influences), rock, vocals (not sure how to say it, but spoken solo voice, to singing solo voice) so I need speakers that have great instrument separation, good response, and are smooth and accurate everywhere. Emphasis on smooth, and accurate, as I have discerning, but also a very sensitive ears. (I have many resonant frequency plateaus 100's of hz wide, sounds that don't bother people can be literally past the pain threshold for me)

Do you agree with Fifthwheel's recommendation of Morel Maximos in the 150 dollar price range? I was thinking 4" component fronts, with the tweeters somewhere that sound good to me, and 6.5 components for the rear locations (fronts are low by my shins, and rears are chest height behind each seat. I have both seats as far as comfortable from the rears, so as not to block as much sound)

Or, get 6.5 components (with tweeters) for the front speakers, 2inch (or something small) mid range speakers (I'll cut a hole or something for them) and run all of them off my existing amp, and keep one pair of polks, for the rear speakers ran off head unit power?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Soooooo..... I had a chance to give a few different vehicle setups a listen, and demo multiple component setups today.

I listened to multiple in car 2 way component setups, with and without prepped doors, and I wasnt impressed. 

The components that I felt sounded acceptable were so far out of my price range that Im quite sad.

I also found out that my rf 400d amp and low end x9600bhs head unit are also to blame for the lacking sound, and Im not spending the money for quality replacements. 

I did, however, experience the exact same setups, one with prepped doors, and one with no prep, and was surprised at how much less distortion and more midrange depth there was with the prepped doors.

Thus, I have made a decision... I will keep the "acceptable" polk coaxials I have, and just complete the full door prep, and insulate the rear shelf and all four speakers, this will improve what I already purchased, without chasing some rediculous audio goal. I plan on experimenting with covering the tweeters with various materials to tune the siblance out.

I cant even get close (sq wise) to my portable, amped in ear monitor setup (total cost 500) without plopping an easy 10 grand in car audio, so Im just going full budget mode, just for some casual enjoyment. 

Thanks for your responses everyone, and sorry for wasting your time.

 
experimenting with covering the tweeters with various materials to tune the siblance out.
Have you experimented with mounting them on and off axis?   A lot of tweeters are simply designed for one or the other and aiming becomes critical.

I cant even get close (sq wise) to my portable, amped in ear monitor setup (total cost 500) without plopping an easy 10 grand in car audio,
Meh, call it 2000$ but you'd need to put an awful lot of work into it and perhaps get lucky.

 
Have you experimented with mounting them on and off axis?   A lot of tweeters are simply designed for one or the other and aiming becomes critical.

Meh, call it 2000$ but you'd need to put an awful lot of work into it and perhaps get lucky.
They only move a little bit, maybe 10 degrees total (5 from center)

2 grand including sub box, amp, and sub? Or just 2g for the front setup? Still, I'd rather just optimize a few hundred dollar setup for now, I don't have much left over after my sub setup, since I have to pay someone to build it for me. (no cabinet place in town will cut mdf or cedar for me, and I couldn't find the equations I needed to complete my design.

 
Soooooo..... I had a chance to give a few different vehicle setups a listen, and demo multiple component setups today.

I listened to multiple in car 2 way component setups, with and without prepped doors, and I wasnt impressed. 

The components that I felt sounded acceptable were so far out of my price range that Im quite sad.

I also found out that my rf 400d amp and low end x9600bhs head unit are also to blame for the lacking sound, and Im not spending the money for quality replacements. 

I did, however, experience the exact same setups, one with prepped doors, and one with no prep, and was surprised at how much less distortion and more midrange depth there was with the prepped doors.

Thus, I have made a decision... I will keep the "acceptable" polk coaxials I have, and just complete the full door prep, and insulate the rear shelf and all four speakers, this will improve what I already purchased, without chasing some rediculous audio goal. I plan on experimenting with covering the tweeters with various materials to tune the siblance out.

I cant even get close (sq wise) to my portable, amped in ear monitor setup (total cost 500) without plopping an easy 10 grand in car audio, so Im just going full budget mode, just for some casual enjoyment. 

Thanks for your responses everyone, and sorry for wasting your time.
you are meeting all the wrong people who are doing everything wrong.  You  can get exceptional sound quality on a decent budget if you know how to spend your money and tune properly.  First off any kind of component or coaxial idea, throw that in the trash. You will not get anywhere with that especially with all the cars you listened to.  I've listened to cars with 1500$ hertz speakers that sound similar but inferior to a 120$ budget system with raw drivers ran active and properly tuned.

Reasons why coaxials are sh*t. Bad positioning in the stock location, unless you do them in the kick panel pointed up, your soundstage is stuck at the bottom by your feet and the axis sensitive tweeter is prone to being blocked by legs which can greatly affect the stage. Another reason is the crossover point is a gamble, every vehicle has different cabin sizes, door plastic, metal density, cavity size and dash shapes and reflections which greatly affects how your speakers sound aka overall vehicle acoustics. A random factory set crossover point along with random power distribution leaves all chance of SQ to the luck of the draw whether or not the factory presets work with your car or not. In your case it definitely did not. 

Component speakers face most of the same issues outlined above and you have no means to control midrange and tweeter independently from each other nor do you have the ability to time align mids and tweets seperately which leads you to a giant mess of a soundstage thats no where close to precise... anyone that says otherwise pretty much has never heard a precise pin-point accurate soundstage before, it can be wide but it wont be precise with proper instrument seperation. Also level controls matter. Your left tweeter is a lot closer to your ears than your left mid, right tweeter and right mid. There's a lot of proper amounts of tuning that you literally never got the chance to do in your setup because you went with coaxials or components.

Going active means utilizing the crossover points in a DSP or amp and setting it yourself along with the slope. This allows you to get an absolute perfect blend between mid and tweeter regardless of how poorly matched they are sonic wise or how sh*tty your vehicle acoustics is. In your case, you have a big spike between 2khz and 8khz a proper crossover point will allow you to have a gap to tame those frequencies very naturally without excessive need of an EQ - which does not really solve the issue.  You can time align and output match each mid and tweeter independently. With a good crossover point, you can put a lot more power to your mid and tweeter and it'll still sound absolutely amazing and smooth even at higher levels I myself Literally throw 500 watts on my mids and it never gets harsh or sibilant. Also you are not paying a lot of money for sh*tty drivers and an even sh*ttier passive crossover which means you can put money on actual good sounding SQ drivers.  Madisound or partsexpress will be your go to websites for raw drivers.  for a beginner's setup, silverflute 6.5s and vifa xt 25s will smoke most 300 dollar and under components even with a newbie active SQ tune. I heard the same setup with a professional tune that won 3rd place at a local MECA SQ competition and he was against people with 20k+ into their sound systems that had no idea what proper tuning is aka passive components, minimal head unit tweaks.  Tuning and install knowledge is King for SQ. Types of speakers used is irrelevant for the most part past a certain level of quality at most its just a lateral transfer into a different kind of sound more than an upgrade in sound.

 
another thing, f**k rears, unless you have digital sound processing that can upmix to 5.1 surround sound, anything in the rear will just destroy your soundstage and overall sonic accuracy by pulling it to the rear along with having disruptive waves and unwanted changes in the frequency response. Music is recorded in 2.1. A properly done Front stage setup will be massively better than a half @ssed front and rear setup by FAR.

 
Wow. That makes so much sense. All the cars I've sat in have so much muttled sound, and distortion. They just arent tuned even in the slightest.

Jeff, can I text, facebook msg, or email back and forth with you? I have a feeling you have exactly the knowledge I want for my car audio satisfaction. Also, you are only 440 miles away from me, maybe I can make a trip out for a couple days and we can work on my car? I can buy everything you tell me before hand.

 
Activity
No one is currently typing a reply...
Old Thread: Please note, there have been no replies in this thread for over 3 years!
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.

Similar threads

Avoid jvc 480bhs hard to see the display in the daytime even with the brightness all the way up also not as easy getting to the audio menu like...
5
417
Not good for introducing new guys to lithium Lots of burned down cars from user error because the tech is new and people are ignorant.
24
2K
low level when using RCAs so that knob should be pushed out. The crossover turn it all the way right and use the one on the head unit and set it...
5
726

About this thread

1995Tercel

10+ year member
Junior Member
Thread starter
1995Tercel
Joined
Location
SW Utah
Start date
Participants
Who Replied
Replies
18
Views
2,663
Last reply date
Last reply from
Jcsaudio
1000006564.jpg

Mr FaceCaser

    Mar 28, 2024
  • 0
  • 0
1000006569.jpg

Mr FaceCaser

    Mar 28, 2024
  • 0
  • 0

Latest topics

Top