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randpost

New to car audio and can use some advice

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So I have been working on upgrading my car audio for about a month now. I have not had any experience before now. This was a budget build, so price did play a part in my purchases. Sound deadening was a bit pricier than I thought it would be So I dropped down from Mille legends in the front to the Mille pros. I stripped out my entire vehicle and put roughly 400lbs of deadener on the floor, roof, and doors. I did it in 3 layers; butyl, closed cell foam and a high density layer. I installed a component set up front and coax in the rear doors. I went with a single 12" sub for the lows. Finally I installed a head unit. 

Now that I have everything installed, I like the sound be produced, but I do have a few issues with the passive crossovers and the tweeters. On songs that go up into the higher ranges the tweeters sometimes hiss. I don't want to say crackle but the sound has static on the highest frequencies. This happens on just a few songs.  Mind you this is at the highest  volume without distortion according to the C.L.E.A.N. system built into the amp. I also verified with a DD-1 (regret this purchase as it did exactly what the amps already did). My gains are set correctly. I really want to set a limit to the high frequencies being sent to the tweeters. Nothing in my set up allows for that currently.  

Should I just run a inline cap to the tweeters? What cap would I need?

Should I go active crossover? Would I need a new amp for active?

I did do a ton of research, but my god there is a ton of info out there and some of that information seems to conflict and is the reason for my post.

 

List of items in my  build:

 

Amps:

Rockford T750X1bd

Rockford T400X4ad

Speakers:

Hertz Mille MPK 165.3 Pro Component

Hertz Mille MPX 165.3 Pro Coaxial

JL 12w6v3 in Manufacturer Spec Ported Enclosure

Head Unit:

Pioneer 4400NEX (I wanted wireless Android auto)

 

Edited by randpost

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23 minutes ago, randpost said:

So I have been working on upgrading my car audio for about a month now. I have not had any experience before now. This was a budget build, so price did play a part in my purchases. Sound deadening was a bit pricier than I thought it would be So I dropped down from Mille legends in the front to the Mille pros. I stripped out my entire vehicle and put roughly 400lbs of deadener on the floor, roof, and doors. I did it in 3 layers; butyl, closed cell foam and a high density layer. I installed a component set up front and coax in the rear doors. I went with a single 12" sub for the lows. Finally I installed a head unit. 

Now that I have everything installed, I like the sound be produced, but I do have a few issues with the passive crossovers and the tweeters. On songs that go up into the higher ranges the tweeters sometimes hiss. I don't want to say crackle but the sound has static on the highest frequencies. This happens on just a few songs.  Mind you this is at the highest  volume without distortion according to the C.L.E.A.N. system built into the amp. I also verified with a DD-1 (regret this purchase as it did exactly what the amps already did). My gains are set correctly. I really want to set a limit to the high frequencies being sent to the tweeters. Nothing in my set up allows for that currently.  

Should I just run a inline cap to the tweeters? What cap would I need?

Should I go active crossover? Would I need a new amp for active?

I did do a ton of research, but my god there is a ton of info out there and some of that information seems to conflict and is the reason for my post.

 

List of items in my  build:

 

Amps:

Rockford T750X1bd

Rockford T400X4ad

Speakers:

Hertz Mille MPK 165.3 Pro Component

Hertz Mille MPX 165.3 Pro Coaxial

JL 12w6v3 in Manufacturer Spec Ported Enclosure

Head Unit:

Pioneer 4400NEX (I wanted wireless Android auto)

 

if youre not exaggerating about your install, then you have no reason not to do an active crossover for your mids/tweets. If you went that extreme with everything else, you shouldnt limit yourself with power robbing passive x-overs. You would need 2 additional channels for active if you want to retain your rear speakers and add a DSP since the deck only has 6 rca outputs and youd need minimum 7 (2 front tweet, 2 front mid, 2 rear fill and at least 1 for sub)


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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31 minutes ago, youdoofus said:

if youre not exaggerating about your install, then you have no reason not to do an active crossover for your mids/tweets. If you went that extreme with everything else, you shouldnt limit yourself with power robbing passive x-overs. You would need 2 additional channels for active if you want to retain your rear speakers and add a DSP since the deck only has 6 rca outputs and youd need minimum 7 (2 front tweet, 2 front mid, 2 rear fill and at least 1 for sub)

Thank you for the reply.

What would you suggest for the active xover and the DSP? Is there a singular unit that can do both?

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15 minutes ago, randpost said:

Thank you for the reply.

What would you suggest for the active xover and the DSP? Is there a singular unit that can do both?

i cant think of a dsp that cant do both. seems like you have a pretty decent budget, and if you want to lay down the coin for it the audison bit one is pretty good from what ive seen.


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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Alright, so I need:

1) DSP (and laptop?)

2) Replacement 6 channel amp to keep my rear coax, or add a 2 channel amp for the rear coax. (Kids watch DVD's in rear seats so i need to maintain rear speakers)

 

Glad I went over sized on my amp board to fit the additions.

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15 minutes ago, randpost said:

Alright, so I need:

1) DSP (and laptop?)

2) Replacement 6 channel amp to keep my rear coax, or add a 2 channel amp for the rear coax. (Kids watch DVD's in rear seats so i need to maintain rear speakers)

 

Glad I went over sized on my amp board to fit the additions.

1: yes

2: yes, probably cheaper to add an addtl 2 channel


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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also, i do see where people talk a lot about putting a resistor in line with the tweeter as a backup in case the dsp's xover forgets the x-over point and lets all frequencies thru to it. youll not see nearly as much parasitic loss in the power as you would with a conventional passive x-over and still have a failsafe for your tweets


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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You don't need a laptop for the dsp although it's easy to use a laptop if you have one. Even the budget dayton 4x8 dsp will work great for you

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dsp-408-4x8-dsp-digital-signal-processor-for-home-and-car-audio--230-500


I AM The Future of personal transportation, NOW!!
Pretty sure everyone on this site hates you (@JohnKuthe) more then me and that's very hard to accomplish.

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Slow it down. If this is in fact your first system you have gone way past most first-timers. Now I congratulate you and issue a warning to not "throw money" at your complaint about the tweeters. 

When you say hiss and static from the tweeters, only on some songs, what exactly do you mean? Do not forget that you have many audio settings within your Pioneer head unit to access. If you're unsure of what is actually the source of this annoyance you can spend a bit of time with the equalizer and see what one band at a time does to affect a song. I'm not convinced, with the information provided, that you need to buy one more piece of electronics. 

What are your audio sources? Streaming from Spotify off your phone's Bluetooth connection? HD Radio? Let us know more about that.


@BarrySchanz on social

Founder and CEO of Barry Schanz Enterprises, LLC

dba Rubyserv

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Need to know more info. Those are a nice set of components with solid gear backing it up. So I would look into install or how you are listening to music. If they are off axis or directed at a windshield that could be the issue. If you are streaming music or listening with a crappy aux cable that could be the issue. 

 

A DSP will definitely give you more control and could flatten out the upper frequencies but I would not throw money at your build until you identify the problem.

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30 minutes ago, trumpet said:

Slow it down. If this is in fact your first system you have gone way past most first-timers. Now I congratulate you and issue a warning to not "throw money" at your complaint about the tweeters. 

When you say hiss and static from the tweeters, only on some songs, what exactly do you mean? Do not forget that you have many audio settings within your Pioneer head unit to access. If you're unsure of what is actually the source of this annoyance you can spend a bit of time with the equalizer and see what one band at a time does to affect a song. I'm not convinced, with the information provided, that you need to buy one more piece of electronics. 

What are your audio sources? Streaming from Spotify off your phone's Bluetooth connection? HD Radio? Let us know more about that.

 

11 minutes ago, ckeeler11 said:

Need to know more info. Those are a nice set of components with solid gear backing it up. So I would look into install or how you are listening to music. If they are off axis or directed at a windshield that could be the issue. If you are streaming music or listening with a crappy aux cable that could be the issue. 

 

A DSP will definitely give you more control and could flatten out the upper frequencies but I would not throw money at your build until you identify the problem.

They have several thousand dollars wrapped up in gear already and no sane person would do that if they didn't want immaculate sound. The added cost of a dsp would be less than what they probably have invested in sound deadening if the weight figure is correct. Why try to argue the point of a passive setup? The end result of the active will greatly surpass the passive all day long. If the cost of an additional 2 channel, dsp, cables and install isn't an issue for the op, then let them get it and be happier as an end result. Nobody with this amount of gear should be passive if no aversion to a dsp, laptop and an additional 2 channels of amplification didn't make them balk in the slightest


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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I'm not against a DSP but I am against throwing money at a problem without knowing the cause. Would suck to buy a DSP and have someone tune your system properly to find out the static is from the recording or source since it is only on certain songs. Guess what DSP wont fix it. 

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I listen to Flac audio via USB and Google Music depending on what I feel like listening to.  6.5 and coax are in the door factory locations. Tweeters are in factory location firing up to windshield. I tested the tweeters in multiple locations via the supplied pods, but I liked the factory location better for multiple reasons. I really don't want anyone to see my audio nor do I want to see my audio.

The only time I get the hiss, crackle or the static sound is at full volume and only during vocals and it is fairly rare on vocals. Adele Flac albums for example (don't judge). When Adele starts screaming I get light crackling. My head unit has the front and rear speakers crossed over at 63hz with 12db slope. I do not use the crossovers on my amps. 

I purchased the additional mic for the head unit auto tuning. I like the head units auto tuning better than my tuning so I kept it with a few changes to the crossover settings. I measured the timings set by auto tune and they were right one. I haven't really played with the EQ settings myself on the head unit, and I probably should. 

Edited by randpost

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16 hours ago, ckeeler11 said:

I'm not against a DSP but I am against throwing money at a problem without knowing the cause. Would suck to buy a DSP and have someone tune your system properly to find out the static is from the recording or source since it is only on certain songs. Guess what DSP wont fix it. 

the issues he listed sounds like connection issue that could be anywhere between the amp and the tweeter. So it could be wiring or even a resistor in the passive x-overs getting frisky. Bi-amping good speakers is always the best way to get clean power to the driver. If the tweeter isnt damaged and the wiring is good, that doesnt leave very many options for culprits of the issue. In all honesty, @randpost its just going to sound better biamping the fronts, period


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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Conclusion to my problem:

I ended up picking up a T400X2ad 2 channel amp for starters. I figured I would order a DSP in a week or so to keep everything under the spouses radar. I hooked up up my front comps to the 2 channel amp to test it before installing it. The high end crackle/static was non-existent on the 2 channel amp. At this point I'm thinking it might have been a bad connection to the 4 channel amp. So I removed the 2 channel amp and hooked up the 4 channel amp again making sure all the connections were solid. The static/crackle at high volumes is present again.  I placed an ordered for a replacement T400X4ad. I didn't want to return the 4 channel amp until I tried a new unit. I installed the new 4 channel amp today (same model). It looks like I just had a bad amp because I have absolutely no issues with the new 4 channel amp. The amp I am having issues with is still  within the return window with Amazon so all is well. 

I never thought it was the amp, I though that as long as its delivering power its good to go. Perhaps it was an issue with some of the internal electronics of the amp? I don't think I will use the 2 channel amp now, my stock 120 amp alternator most likely doesn't need more of a load than it already has. I am now happy with the sound in my vehicle. I may sneak the 2 channel into the wife's car with a set of Morel Ultra 602 Integra's. I've been wanting to try those and needed an excuse. 

Edited by randpost

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just curious, what vehicle?


Alpine 9887, Oz ME 180CS, RF R500X1D, 12" RE SE Sealed, Second Skin Damp Pro

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3 hours ago, nauc said:

just curious, what vehicle?

2018 Nissan Rogue SV.

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Forgot to add photos to first post. Ignore the power distribution as it is unfinished. Still need to install my distribution blocks that arrive late. Flip down AVI player is for the little ones. 

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Edited by randpost

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Nice work!


Traded with, bought from: Anthony O, Mitchell0715, kuda, Chevy Blazin', Babs, Captain Obvious, ciaonzo

 

'13 Camaro SS/RS

Kenwood DDX9903S - Arc PS-8

Arc Audio XDi 1200.6 - Audiofrog GB10, GB25, GB60

Helix SPXL1000 - (2) Audiofrog GB12D4 IB

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On 10/17/2018 at 11:40 AM, randpost said:

Forgot to add photos to first post. Ignore the power distribution as it is unfinished. Still need to install my distribution blocks that arrive late. Flip down AVI player is for the little ones. 

IMG_20181017_092515.jpg

IMG_20181017_092724.jpg

IMG_20181017_092901.jpg

IMG_20181017_091626.jpg

MVIMG_20181017_091547.jpg

IMG_20181017_091359.jpg

IMG_20180919_114639.jpg

MVIMG_20180908_120758.jpg

MVIMG_20180908_121235.jpg

IMG_20180915_005741.jpg

Awesome!! Update your profile signature with your vehicle and gear list so you don't have to constantly answer the same question lol


2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)

2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)

Pioneer AVH-2300NEX

2 PPI PC275's running 1 sub each atm, waiting to put the SQ 2200.1 back in and add the PhoenixGold Elite.4 once my electrical is up to snuff

Front stage:PRV Audio 6MB200 6.5 and Massive Audio CT2 tweeters

Rear speakers: stock

I just added 5 SoundQubed stickers, and despite having no equipment upgrades, it added 76 DB!!!

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