A girl needs help install options

keep_hope_alive said:

Sorry for the delay, the forum was preventing me from responding sooner.

What vehicle is this in?  You list six 6x9 speakers but do you plan on running all 6?  if so, how exactly? 

What is your plan for an enclosure for the sub?

First, don't power any speakers from the head unit as the actual usable power available is closer to 5 watts max. (this is due to the way those ICs are rated, but that's a longer discussion).

Second, your best bet would be running the dual 4 ohm sub from the Dual amp so you can wire each coil bridged.  Each coil will be wired directly to a bridged channel (no parallel or series).  This will provide the most power the amp is capable of into the sub.  Changing to the two 10's may change the recommendation, but you could wire each sub to a bridged channel on this amp for good results.

Third, you'll use the 2 channel Encore amp for all of the speakers.  This means wiring all of the right channel speakers in parallel (speaker positives together to amp positive output, negatives together to amp negative output).  http://www.bcae1.com/srsparll.htm  You won't have the ability to use your fader (your HU only has front/rear anyway) but you will have separate left and right stereo separation. 

The head unit front RCA output pair will go to the Encore amp.  The head unit rear RCA output pair will go to the Dual amp.  You will have a remote wire running from the head unit (blue/white) to each of the amp remote inputs (ok to daisy-chain or split).

If you plan on doing this yourself, that's great.  You'll need to spend some time studying terms and wiring methods.  www.bcae1.com is my recommendation as a good place to start.   Use the index on the right of the page to select topics. 

Lastly, plan on wiring the stuff neatly.  You want a board that everything will mount to.  You want to secure the amps with enough space to route wiring safely.  All positive wires get fuses.  Grounding locations should be to bare metal and tight.  Wire sizes should match fuses ratings that protect them.  Pictured is a sample amp rack I put in my wife's car.

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keep_hope_alive said:

Thanks for the quick response.

You don't lose power output by daisy-chaining the RCA signals.  That is what you'll want to do for multiple amps.

The issue with using a 2 channel amp on a dual 4 ohm sub is you cannot wire the amp optimally.  A dual 4 ohm sub wired in parallel results in a 2 ohm mono load, and the amp can't handle that.  The alternate is to wire the sub coils in series for an 8 ohm load, but at that load the amp would provide half of the power it's rated for bridged (same as a coil on each channel), and when combined with the impedance spike at fs (free-air resonance) you'll have much less power than you want for the sub.  This is why I didn't recommend using the Encore amp for the sub.

I understand your planned placement now, thanks for clarifying. You can use the Kenwood for the front speakers then the Encore for the rear channels, then the Dual for the subs.  The Kenwood and Encore can share the same signal and pass-through RCA is better than an RCA splitter (due to the voltage-gain relationship with head unit output impedance and amplifier input impedance).  Even with a reduction of incoming voltage, the gain is actually input sensitivity which adjusts for the incoming voltage level.  For example, if the head unit output is 2V than a 2V input sensitivity setting is appropriate to allow full volume use of the head unit.

I am aware you have a 4 channel amp made by Dual.  I understand how it can be confusing when talking about a Dual brand 4 channel amp wired in bridged configuration to a Clarion dual 4 ohm sub (two 4 ohm coils).

The Clarion is dual voice coil with 4 ohms per coil, also referred to as dual 4 ohm.  https://www.abtec.co.nz/Clarion_SRW1283_Discontinued_2007_2008_Model    That means there are four connections on the sub, positive and negative for one coil, positive and negative for the second coil.  Both of these coils need to be connected.  With dual 4 ohm coils, you have two wiring options to connect them to a single channel:

https://rockfordfosgate.com/support/wiring-wizard/

You can also choose to wire the sub to the Encore with one coil on channel 1 and the second coil on channel 2. 

When deciding which amp to use for the sub, you compare impedance options for wiring in parallel, series, or separate.  When you look at the Encore amp ratings, notice there are three values; stereo at 4 ohms, stereo at 2 ohms, or bridged at 4 ohms.  Also note that the total power rating is the same for 2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm bridged, and these are both twice of the total rating at 4 ohm stereo.  This is typical as it follows Ohm's  Law and the most common amplifier topology.  So you can choose to use the Encore amp for the sub, and you'll only be able to wire it for half of the amplifiers capability, around 150W. 

You can choose to implement the 2 Farad cap. It is the least important part of the power wiring requirements when compared to how you wire and terminate power and ground cables.  It doesn't matter where you put the cap since everything is already connected. One common method is to tie the cap into the distribution block.  Another popular method is to put the cap right at the sub amp, but the difference between the two methods is trivial.  Also note that the 2 Farad cap has much less energy storage than an AAA battery so choosing to implement it is your choice because you want to, not because it makes a huge difference.  Of course, a "stiffening cap" does not replace the need for a good battery system and a good alternator. 

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robinredd said:

thank you so much ok this is what im understanding you think it would be better for me to use the encore for the 4 rear speakers (6x9).

and use the dual 4 channel amp for the one clarion  dual coil.

the wiring diagram above i would choose the 4ohm to 2ohm one for the sub . my question is out of the 4 speaker terminals on the 4 channel amp with that configuration do i connect the 2 wires from the sub to keep it at 2ohms configuration from above, do i connect the 2 wires to just channel 1,   or  positive to channel 1 and negative to channel 2 out of the 4 channels terminals. if that is the case will their still be 2 channels available on the dual 4 channel amp ?

on the 4 6x9  4 ohm each speakers how do i wire them to the 2 encore 2 channel amp do i wire them 2 speakers to one channel and the other 2 to channel 2,,,or all 4 wired together on 1 positive channel 1 and 1 negative channel 2? know the answer to this will save my day. i can not tell you how many times i have disconnected rewired , cap, and sometimes when you turn off the key the whole thing makes a pop when turning off and it still dont sound right  it laod but it is not right thank you so much for helping me robin

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robinredd said:

i have looked on the internet and i can only find this diagram for 4 speakers to a 2 channel amp but it is for subs will this aply for the 4 6x9?

if so it going to be a little tricky with the 2 being mounted in the upper rear and the 2 external loose in their boxes in the back seat but if this is the best for the encore as far as max rms output from the specs above mentioned am i right or is their a better way to wire them

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keep_hope_alive said:

you're getting it!  well done.

For the Dual brand 4 channel amp, you will wire it in bridged configuration for each coil.  The attached thumbnail is from the Dual XPR540 manual. 

Channels 1 and 2 will be bridged to the subwoofer coil #1.  Channels 3 and 4 will be bridged to the subwoofer coil #2.  You want to get the gains set exactly the same - which is best done with a DMM.  To do this, you play a test tone (50Hz is ideal).  Then you measure the VAC (volts-AC) for each bridged configuration, getting them accurate to within 0.1VAC. 

When wiring the four 6x9 on the Encore, you don't have to wire it like the diagram exactly.  Yes, all positives will combine but they can combine at the amp terminals.  So route wiring from each 6x9 to the respective amp.  On the Encore, you'll land two wires in each terminal.  For all other connections, you'll only have one wire per speaker terminal.  All speakers will only have one wire per terminal.

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robinredd said:

im not sure exactly what your talking about "Yes, all positives will combine but they can combine at the amp terminals.  So route wiring from each 6x9 to the respective amp.  On the Encore, you'll land two wires in each terminal. " all positives will combine but they can combine at the amp terminals when you say this to me  im thinking unless i rewire the speakers in sets of 2 in series or parallel  ill have 4 separate speaker wires one coming off of each speaker as they are now.this is where im having all of my problems . please tell me exactly how to connect the 4 6x9. i understand all positives will combine at the amp terminals BUT HOW ? PLEASE TELL ME EXACTLY(EXAMPLE) connect 2 of the 6x9 in parallel or series and and the same will apply for the other 2 6x9 and on the 2 channel amp.. then once i wire the speakers  ill have 2 speaker wires in my hand 2 positives and 2 negatives , now what terminals do i connect them to ? do i twist the 2 positives together and 2 negatives together and connect them? and connect them 1 to the positive of the one channel and the twisted together negatives to the negative of the other channel? or dont twist the positives together and connect them like the the first picture typical stereo wiring that is 2 i have 4. this is my problem step by step do i  combine all positives together at the amp that would be 4 positive wires twisted together then on the other hand your saying 2 wires per terminal . are you saying on 2 of the 6x9 twist 2 of the positives together and the negatives and do the same to the other 2 then i would have 2 wires to each terminal and connect them like the picture that has 2 speakers in it or the 2 positive twisted together to positive  channel 1 and the twisted  negative to the negative of channel 2 and the same for the other 2 . it this step right here is where im lost .. but you can rest assure that once i finally understand ill know it for the rest of my life. all that what i just wrote sounds hella confusing but you understand what im saying . i know how to run speakers in series and parallel its after i do that i dont know what terminals to connect them to thank you robin  

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keep_hope_alive said:

Maybe this diagram will help for wiring the four 6x9 two a 2 channel amp.  We would call this wiring left speakers in parallel and then wiring right speakers in parallel.

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robinredd said:

im not sure exactly what your talking about "Yes, all positives will combine but they can combine at the amp terminals.  So route wiring from each 6x9 to the respective amp.  On the Encore, you'll land two wires in each terminal. " all positives will combine but they can combine at the amp terminals when you say this to me  im thinking unless i rewire the speakers in sets of 2 in series or parallel  ill have 4 separate speaker wires one coming off of each speaker as they are now.this is where im having all of my problems . please tell me exactly how to connect the 4 6x9. i understand all positives will combine at the amp terminals BUT HOW ? PLEASE TELL ME EXACTLY(EXAMPLE) connect 2 of the 6x9 in parallel or series and and the same will apply for the other 2 6x9 and on the 2 channel amp.. then once i wire the speakers  ill have 2 speaker wires in my hand 2 positives and 2 negatives , now what terminals do i connect them to ? do i twist the 2 positives together and 2 negatives together and connect them? and connect them 1 to the positive of the one channel and the twisted together negatives to the negative of the other channel? or dont twist the positives together and connect them like the the first picture typical stereo wiring that is 2 i have 4. this is my problem step by step do i  combine all positives together at the amp that would be 4 positive wires twisted together then on the other hand your saying 2 wires per terminal . are you saying on 2 of the 6x9 twist 2 of the positives together and the negatives and do the same to the other 2 then i would have 2 wires to each terminal and connect them like the picture that has 2 speakers in it or the 2 positive twisted together to positive  channel 1 and the twisted  negative to the negative of channel 2 and the same for the other 2 . it this step right here is where im lost .. but you can rest assure that once i finally understand ill know it for the rest of my life. all that what i just wrote sounds hella confusing but you understand what im saying . i know how to run speakers in series and parallel its after i do that i dont know what terminals to connect them to thank you robin  

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keep_hope_alive said:

you're getting it!  well done.

For the Dual brand 4 channel amp, you will wire it in bridged configuration for each coil.  The attached thumbnail is from the Dual XPR540 manual. 

Channels 1 and 2 will be bridged to the subwoofer coil #1.  Channels 3 and 4 will be bridged to the subwoofer coil #2.  You want to get the gains set exactly the same - which is best done with a DMM.  To do this, you play a test tone (50Hz is ideal).  Then you measure the VAC (volts-AC) for each bridged configuration, getting them accurate to within 0.1VAC. 

When wiring the four 6x9 on the Encore, you don't have to wire it like the diagram exactly.  Yes, all positives will combine but they can combine at the amp terminals.  So route wiring from each 6x9 to the respective amp.  On the Encore, you'll land two wires in each terminal.  For all other connections, you'll only have one wire per speaker terminal.  All speakers will only have one wire per terminal.

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keep_hope_alive said:

the amp will get hot as it is making the most power possible.  If you are turning it up high to get the desired output you may need a bigger sub amp, like a 1 ohm stable monoblock.   The Boss AR4000.1D is only $95 and makes a legit, usable 1,000W @ 1 ohm.

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• Max Series 2-Channel Car Amplifier
  
• RMS Power Rating (14.4V):
  
  4 ohms: 100 watts x 2 chan.
  
• 2 ohms: 150 watts x 2 chan.
  
• Bridged, 4 ohms: 2000 watts x 1 chan.
  

• 
  4 ohms: 150 watts x 2 chan.
  
• 2 ohms: 200 watts x 2 chan.