Why not this mid??

I'm assuming you know the differenec between 2.83v and 1w? If not, you may want to preface your driver search with a little google reading. Are you looking for a midrange or a midbass? And do you want something musical or do you just want loud? Answering these questions for yourself can help guide your search for a frugal but effective solution.

ThxOne said:

There is no difference if I recall. 2.83v IS 1 watt at 8 ohms. If I recall. I think the point may have got lost. I am pretty sure both of these speakers will cover the same frequencies and do the same thing. What I am getting at is why would I then pay 3 times more for the other driver? What justifies the cost? Is it in fact that much better or is it just bragging rights to say hey, I own really expensive things?

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I didn't look up the drivers so I wasn't sure if they were 4 ohm or 8 ohm. So you do grasp the concept for sensitivity. Most don't so I wanted to run it by you.

Those drivers aren't going to do the job the same way. That's why I hit you with the other questions. There's definitely good reason for paying for a certain level of quality and performance. That's not to be confused with overpaying for the exact same performance from two different drivers, but again, that does not describe the case for the two drivers you just selected for comparison.

Overall... No, you do not have to pay Scanspeak prices for Scanspeak performance. Regardless of what some will claim, you cannot get good sound from just any driver just because the FR looks the same on a graph. Motors, cone materials, cone profiles & softparts all have an enormous impact on the overall subjective results, and that is what matters most once you're all done installing and tweaking. But you have to have a vision for what you expect from the final results before you can narrow the selections down for your application. I can help guide you since I have about 25 years experience with DIY and driver selection. Otherwise, you can also head over to the numerous other home audio DIY forums to get real scientific reasons (and truly helpful subjective impressions, not audiophile fluff words) as to why some drivers just don't cut the mustard, even though they look good on paper. Of course, this assumes a good install or application, no matter what. Before someone jumps in and overstates the obvious.

ThxOne said:

Yes, that is one of my concerns... more money for the same or similar performance. This rabbit hole has me thinking of so many different things. I have so much crap behind me and to the side of me waiting for an install. Every car audio store I have visited does the same things... buy these components, you won't get anything better blah blah blah. So they are no help. I wish there was a place I could go to listen to whatever speakers I wanted to and directly compare them.

My vision? Hmmmm It's hard for me to do that because my brain is all over the place... What speakers depend on the vehicle, what amplifiers depend on the alternator... that kind of off thinking lol. So far it's - 3 amps - Active with my 3sixty.3 - tweeters - mids - subs. No rear speakers. This is just an outline. Having found the limits of my eXcelon mids I will need mids that can handle palm muted guitar at high volume without distorting.

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When I say vision, I actually mean the sound. What do you imagine the front stage sounding like? Rich and full with tons of up front bass for that 2way + subwoofer type presentation? Or lean and loud as part of more of a full-on 3way setup that you're sitting in the middle of? The drivers you choose for those will be different, for best results. 

My opinion, the drivers you settle on should never depend on the vehicle. You should be in love with a driver for the character and performance, then do everything within your power to get it into the vehicle and make it work. Having clean power and tuning flexibility is a given and you should always have that on tap. I'm not sure how we arrived a time where everyone thinks so, but you do not need to go crazy with front stage power. Realistically, 50-75w per driver is as good as it ever was for front stage drivers. Especially if they are very sensitive drivers. But even if that's not enough power, today's more efficient offerings should solve the alternator concerns if you're stepping it up to 100-125w per driver. The subwoofer is where you want to throw down some real power but that still doesn't always necessitate an alternator upgrade if you're simply putting together a system for music. I've been procrastinating when it comes to my own power upgrades but it hasn't stopped me from running 1500w-2000w sub amps, all without issue.

Anyway, I'm sure you will figure it out. You just have to decide what you want for yourself and know how to choose the raw drivers that are best suited for it.

ThxOne said:

I would say a 2.1 setup. Mids and highs up front being the main focus, handling all the music and the subwoofer handling all the low end reinforcement. But if the sub wasn't there, it would still have bass and sound good... you follow? My home stereo would be a decent example of what I would like my car to do or do better. When I listen to music at home it is as follows:

Onkyo receiver - Bose 2001 left and right speakers - Yamaha active servo subwoofer.

The Bose have 6 1/2's and 2 1/4" speakers in them and have an IEC rating of 50w. The sub is 8". They get down and loud but sound very clear at higher volumes. I'd like to have something like this in the car.

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There you go, that's a great start to narrowing down your drivers. You're not after a midrange, you're after a midbass. Sensitivity should not be very high on your list of criteria because you will be after a driver that does very well down low. Typically, those are not the most sensitive drivers. But because you also expect this driver to meet up with a tweeter at around 1kHz-3kHz, you also want a driver that stays clean while it's stroking like a mofo so it's imperative that you stick with low distortion motors with rings and sleeves. Then choose your type of character - plastic cone, paper cone, metal cone, composite cone. There's no escaping the root character of the driver's build, be it from the motor, cone, or suspension, but with low distortion motors and quality suspensions, you're left with mostly the cone material and shape as a signature. Some things can be EQ'd out, some things cannot. Polar response, for instance. Do things right and you will be left with the things you like about the cone material you choose. I prefer metals and composites, myself. Plastics tend to smooth things over too much for my liking.

Dude, if you want a frugal approach that really delivers, try the aluminum or ceramic drivers from SB Acoustics. They have a really clean, very well behaved character and they stroke like crazy. Very dynamic and cleeeeeean drivers for not much money at all. Right on par with the Revelator stuff. Just address the cone resonance on top (outside the passband) and you're good. Cross low enough and you won't even need to address it. The rest is crossing and EQing to your tastes. I attached an image of the 5" ceramic doing some work. I ran it that way for three days for the break-in period.

Otherwise, my next suggestion would be the Dayton Esoteric. Just incredible drivers and they handle a tad more power than the SBA.

Both of those drivers are hard to beat from many perspectives and they have lots of copper in the motors.

ThxOne said:

I appreciate all this. Gives me some direction from a different perspective. Man that little speaker is moving lol

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Sure thing. That's just my approach, there are many other options out there for you. Hope some others will chime and and help find something that works for you.

ThxOne said:

I am liking those ceramic SB drivers. Makes sense in a car with exposure to the elements.

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Truth be told, the drivers I suggested are less than ideal for exposure to the elements. The motors have a very open architecture and a careful install would still be necessary. It's not terribly difficult to fabricate even modest enclosures for proper midbass performance but most will take the easier route and simply install them in the holes provided in the doors. That's understandable. Stereo Integrity has a novel solution to this on their latest TM65 XBL drivers, the upper portion of the basket provides a water run-off. That's another driver I would recommend. I haven't played with one, though.