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I won't buy Sundown amps....just too spendy when cheaper Korean boards in other amps outperform rated power and "bonus" watts from other brands. I think Jake needs to dyno some amps, if he claims they do rated and then some, what then has happened over the course of the yrs if his statement is true?

 

Much cheaper korean boards out now. I owned most of the SAZ series of amps 6-7 years ago and i know they were underrated a lot. I believe the SAZ 3500d was clamping almost 4500 watts and pretty much the same price as the SCV3000 is now. But once this SCV line came out 2-3 years ago and i seen the prices especially the 3k amp i went a different direction. They make great drivers but over the years their amp prices have gone up way too much for me.

 

and yes i can see this hurting amp sales. YouTube is a powerful tool


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I won't buy Sundown amps....just too spendy when cheaper Korean boards in other amps outperform rated power and "bonus" watts from other brands. I think Jake needs to dyno some amps, if he claims they do rated and then some, what then has happened over the course of the yrs if his statement is true?

 

BigD made a good point in the comments. Jacob stated they have a dyno at the shop now and would do some testing after he said they will do over rated. It's been 2 weeks and nothing from Sundown from their own testing.

 

I'm not knocking Sundown or speaking negatively. I just didn't like them questioning BigD's testing. I will still recommend their subs and other products because of their customer service and quality.


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After all the dust has settled there will still be some questions about the durability of the new Orion HCCA DSPLX series. Just read some stuff posted on FB by a alleged tech who says the components of the Orion's are suspect over the long-term. He went into some detail explaining his concerns and didn't come off as a SD fanboy with a bruised ego.

 

We may be entering into a period where new models come out every 8-10 weeks as the SPL Power Wars heat up. You can credit Youtube and Amp Dynos for it. However, even Dereck will say that the dyno doesn't tell the whole story.

As a SQ-oriented enthusiast it is pretty fun to watch the emotional reactions of guys who are obsessed with a Term Lab number.


Absolutely State of the Art!

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So there was really nothing wrong with SD's pricing, or 3K pricing, if that's what the market would bear up until that point. Orion just seemingly busted that market hold and the adjustment is upsetting a few people.

 

this is more about youre post #70 and where you referenced it later, but i think the nail in the coffin for the SA amp would be derek sending these to ryan and having him run the same tests. derek has clearly shown the serial numbers of both amps, while i know that the bottom place can be swapped by some seriously shady mofos (which neither of them are), i think that this would make the SA people really stand at attention to the issue we all are aware of here. Jacob might listen for real if it was duplicated on anyother dyno run

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this is more about youre post #70 and where you referenced it later, but i think the nail in the coffin for the SA amp would be derek sending these to ryan and having him run the same tests. derek has clearly shown the serial numbers of both amps, while i know that the bottom place can be swapped by some seriously shady mofos (which neither of them are), i think that this would make the SA people really stand at attention to the issue we all are aware of here. Jacob might listen for real if it was duplicated on anyother dyno run

 

Sundown not only has been over charging for their 3k they have been doing so knowing it's numbers were sketchy (at best). As a long time customer, I will never own another Sundown product again. Truth and Integrity matters!


When it's all said and done, most of the time, there's more said than done.

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lol boycott Sundown cause the amp did rated power. :laugh:


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too many freq at once, burn the coil, we all know, over 40-50hz, its all coilburning material.

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lol boycott Sundown cause the amp did rated power. :laugh:

 

A quick glance at your equipment list seems like you know something about "boycotting" Sundown.


When it's all said and done, most of the time, there's more said than done.

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I honestly don't think Sundown has been lying to the consumer in regards to this amp. I think they were sent a ringer by the buildhouse and have assumed they would all be close in output. Sundown has a great track record and I find it very hard to believe they would tell us their 3k amp is underrated if they knew it wasn't. At the end if the day, it's a 3k amp that does exactly that. The problem is the price tag but if people are still buying it, why change it?

 

And I'm tired of it being compared to the Orion. The Orion clearly isn't a 3k amp and I'd take the Sundown build quality over the Orion.


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A quick glance at your equipment list seems like you know something about "boycotting" Sundown.

 

Please explain 2018er.


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too many freq at once, burn the coil, we all know, over 40-50hz, its all coilburning material.

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Sundown is hella overpriced. I will never buy a brand new sundown product. What I will buy is yardsale items though. Can’t beat those deals

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After all the dust has settled there will still be some questions about the durability of the new Orion HCCA DSPLX series. Just read some stuff posted on FB by a alleged tech who says the components of the Orion's are suspect over the long-term. He went into some detail explaining his concerns and didn't come off as a SD fanboy with a bruised ego.

 

 

Haven't read this whole thread yet, but from what I've seen, there's a lot of validity here.

 

At all the larger shows, Orion sends a team to repair equipment. Subs and amps.

 

I've seen pretty much all the brands blow up over the last 1.5 years, at one show or another. However the theme with Orion is if there's more than 4 or 5 people running Orion gear, it's a gaurantee that at least one of them is going to blow up.

 

At the TDH show in Va. a couple months ago, they stayed busy rebuilding subs and amps.

 

And to be clear, I'm no Sundown fanboy...I'm on DC Audio's team (literally on Team DC).


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At the CES show back in January Orion had 3 guys on hand repairing amps that went down,and I'll say they stayed busy...


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After all the dust has settled there will still be some questions about the durability of the new Orion HCCA DSPLX series. Just read some stuff posted on FB by a alleged tech who says the components of the Orion's are suspect over the long-term. He went into some detail explaining his concerns and didn't come off as a SD fanboy with a bruised ego.

 

We may be entering into a period where new models come out every 8-10 weeks as the SPL Power Wars heat up. You can credit Youtube and Amp Dynos for it. However, even Dereck will say that the dyno doesn't tell the whole story.

As a SQ-oriented enthusiast it is pretty fun to watch the emotional reactions of guys who are obsessed with a Term Lab number.

The HCCA looks pretty well built to me, I've been looking them over recently with all the hubbub. I also looked pretty closely at the internals of my XTR2500.1 and I was pleased with the quality and finish right down to the solder joints, because the joints usually tell the story if the components don't. More than that, it actually sounds very good! Better than my old 1500w Clarion class G/H amp that was aimed at SQ guys.

 

Edit: I just saw post #111 above so the following paragraph may not hold any weight.

 

I think the durability will only come into play for those who are truly abusing them, insisting on running at 1 ohm or below while allowing them to see low voltage, or long periods of constant-tone driven songs at full tilt (right at clipping) without giving the amp a proper breather. The rest of the failures will be the percentage of failures that were going to happen statistically no matter what. I think it would also help if people would view the XTR and HCCA the way the old stuff was intended to be used, the HCCA for the low impedance setups and the XTR amps at 4 or 2 ohm. I wouldn't run the XTR at 1 ohm over the life of the amp because it's not built as stout as the HCCA line, and I feel like that what's Orion intended.

 

I couldn't agree more with your last statement there, just testing for a few power numbers is far from the whole story and I wish someone would develop the tests that correlate why we like and dislike the sounds of some amps, and I'm not talking about clipping at all. Things like how many triangle wave comparitors, full bridge/half bridge, regulated/unregulated and with how many rails/auxiliary rails, low bias/high bias or low/high/no negative feedback loop(for other class amps), or why subsonic filters can destroy the overall sound quality in a good sub setup. A few people are like WTF on that one but time and again I choose the subjective performance of amps without subsonic filters. SPL guys or guys tuned high can disregard any of that for obvious reasons, lol.

 

this is more about youre post #70 and where you referenced it later, but i think the nail in the coffin for the SA amp would be derek sending these to ryan and having him run the same tests. derek has clearly shown the serial numbers of both amps, while i know that the bottom place can be swapped by some seriously shady mofos (which neither of them are), i think that this would make the SA people really stand at attention to the issue we all are aware of here. Jacob might listen for real if it was duplicated on anyother dyno run
I agree, I think it would carry even more weight than it already does. But I also just want to see how close the results are between these two guys who are very thorough with their approach. I believe it would highlight any if & why reasons there may be a slight variance out there in the field of testing, altogether. I suspect the grouping between any variance would still be pretty tight, though. Edited by ciaonzo

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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At the CES show back in January Orion had 3 guys on hand repairing amps that went down,and I'll say they stayed busy...

 

At the Championships in Louisville last Oct. there were several amps being serviced in the Orion booth. Saw a couple amps (don't know which models) completely disassembled with the boards laying on a work table.

So, either competitors are pushing those amps to the very edge (and obviously beyond) of their breaking points or there may be some inherent weaknesses in the design. However, having techs actually in the booth, available to help/support team members is a pretty clear signal that Orion is serious about winning.


Absolutely State of the Art!

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I agree, I think it would carry even more weight than it already does. But I also just want to see how close the results are between these two guys who are very thorough with their approach. I believe it would highlight and if & why reasons there may be a slight variance out there in the field of testing, altogether. I suspect the grouping between any variance would still be pretty tight, though.

 

My point exactly

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lol boycott Sundown cause the amp did rated power. :laugh:

 

At 14.4 tho. New way of being a "cheater" amp? Why not have all ratings at 16v?

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Much cheaper korean boards out now. I owned most of the SAZ series of amps 6-7 years ago and i know they were underrated a lot. I believe the SAZ 3500d was clamping almost 4500 watts and pretty much the same price as the SCV3000 is now. But once this SCV line came out 2-3 years ago and i seen the prices especially the 3k amp i went a different direction. They make great drivers but over the years their amp prices have gone up way too much for me.

 

and yes i can see this hurting amp sales. YouTube is a powerful tool

 

I didn't like the idea of going from SAZ to SCV for some odd reason and I don't know why, even though I've never personally ran any of their amps. I've owned a few but just to resell.

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Let's see a Sundown 3k amp test from an older amp say 7-8 yrs ago and one from today or this year fresh off the product room pallet. Willing to bet something has changed in between those times. Is Jake aware of the "problem"? Maybe...I would say prob not. he has no reason to lie to his customers. However, I do see the issue of barely making ratings when he claims the exceed them. I think he needs to p ut off his newer product developments on the backburner and look further into this matter and try to figure out what changed over the course of the yrs.


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At 14.4 tho. New way of being a "cheater" amp? Why not have all ratings at 16v?

 

When they first came out they were doing 3300 under 14 volts. Not sure if the build house pulled a fast one or what but I don't care cause I would never spend $800 for a 3k anyways lol. I only paid $999 for my Soundqubed 7k and $250 for my Taramps DSP3000.


2016 Focus ST3 - Rockford DSR1 / PPI 900.4 / Silverflute 6.5" mids / Massive CT2 tweeters /Sundown Xv2 15"/ Taramps DSP3k / Stinger Roadkill / KNU wiring / Northstar SMSAGM80 /

2010 Focus coupe 157@46hz

Pioneer 80prs /(8) FU Audio 750 12"s / (4) FSD 2600s / (1) FSD 125.4 / (1) FSD 85.4 / (4) Crescendo UN-10" mids / (4) Crescendo FT1 tweeters / Stinger Roadkill / 2/0 EB flex wire / (5) Powerware 90AH batteries / DC 270XP Alt /

https://www.youtube.com/popwarhomie

too many freq at once, burn the coil, we all know, over 40-50hz, its all coilburning material.

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When they first came out they were doing 3300 under 14 volts. Not sure if the build house pulled a fast one or what but I don't care cause I would never spend $800 for a 3k anyways lol. I only paid $999 for my Soundqubed 7k and $250 for my Taramps DSP3000.

 

i hear ya. would be nice if they'd rate amps at less than 14.4 because when youre driving around, 14.4 isnt exactly the norm. didnt the old school amps (the good ones, like ppi, pg, old school orion) show their ratings at 12.4?

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