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Jeffdachef

soundstream fukery RIP tn900.4

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Hey Jeff, what made the guy pop open the bottom of the amp and discovered the changes?


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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The truth is. The way things are made today no mass produced amp should cost more then these.

 

it should only cost more in components, QC, and warranty. i dont see how the labor would be higher considering most of the **** is produced in similar factories. the 300-500% markup is absurd

 

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

 

Hey Jeff, what made the guy pop open the bottom of the amp and discovered the changes?

 

i think he said it didnt sound right? idr or the case looked different theres a thread on diyma


I AM The Future of personal transportation, NOW!!
Pretty sure everyone on this site hates you (@JohnKuthe) more then me and that's very hard to accomplish.

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[quote name='wew lad']ignore @hispls he likes to come off as some sort of virtuous person yet does nothing to actually solve the problem besides complaining that people want to save money[/QUOTE]

What more can I do? I haven't recommended any dishonest junk brands to anybody and don't buy them myself. Supporting companies that engage in shady practices only encourages them to keep doing it.

Soundstream/PPI are bad and you should feel bad about recommending them.

[quote name='wew lad']300-500% markup is absurd

[/quote]

Who do you suppose is making that sort of margin on anything? The barrier of entry is incredibly low in this business model. I'm sure the 100$ amp costs about 20$ to make in China but the company slapping a brand name on it isn't pocketing the difference. It's all gobbled up by the supply chain.

Then again if anybody thinks there's 500% ROI to be made with an audio brand, just open up alibaba and give it a whirl.

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What more can I do? I haven't recommended any dishonest junk brands to anybody and don't buy them myself. Supporting companies that engage in shady practices only encourages them to keep doing it.

 

Soundstream/PPI are bad and you should feel bad about recommending them.

 

 

 

Who do you suppose is making that sort of margin on anything? The barrier of entry is incredibly low in this business model. I'm sure the 100$ amp costs about 20$ to make in China but the company slapping a brand name on it isn't pocketing the difference. It's all gobbled up by the supply chain.

 

Then again if anybody thinks there's 500% ROI to be made with an audio brand, just open up alibaba and give it a whirl.

 

1) you're acting like you should feel so good about it and you're so virtuous when you literally admit you dont really do anything to help

 

2) go look at alibaba prices on a shipment of 10k of the 4 channel boards we're speaking about, its not as much as you think. when it comes to the 500% i was talking mostly about some manufacturers who live off their name and have an amp produced cheap as **** and mark it up 500% compared to what itd cost to get a comparable amplifier made


I AM The Future of personal transportation, NOW!!
Pretty sure everyone on this site hates you (@JohnKuthe) more then me and that's very hard to accomplish.

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Grizz Archer is pretty much responsible for them making PPI/Soundstream half *** respectable again. He's responsible for the original phantoms, tarantula nanos, etc...

 

They rewarded him by canning him. Screw Epsilon. I'm glad this came to light so I can finally stop recommending their products completely.

 

so, when i joined this forum, i was under the impression that PPI $ucked from its former glory power class days when it went down the slippery slope of DEI badness. Is it fair to be very cautious with epsilon at the helms now?

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so, when i joined this forum, i was under the impression that PPI $ucked from its former glory power class days when it went down the slippery slope of DEI badness. Is it fair to be very cautious with epsilon at the helms now?

 

I think with Epsilon the term Hit and Miss comes to mind, some of the amps are not a bad value, some downright ****. It's finding the good ones that is key. People are going to be losing their minds when CAB releases the 2000.1... however Soundstream was selling that amp as the PA1.6000d as recently as 3 months ago.. the PPI Black Ice is a really strong amp for $250 and I have a t1.4000dl here that does a real nice job for $200...


Head Unit: Pioneer Avic-5201NEX

Amplifiers: Orion XTR1000.4, Alphard DB-2000.1D

Front Speakers: Infinity Perfect 600 Components

Rear Speakers: Image Dynamics ID6.5

Subwoofers: 2 JL Audio 12TW3-D4

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I have owned/own the Phantom, Picasso Nano, Ion and NVX amps. All have been excellent.

 

Just gotta know which lines to buy.

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1) you're acting like you should feel so good about it and you're so virtuous

 

Where did I say that?

 

i was talking mostly about some manufacturers who live off their name and have an amp produced cheap as **** and mark it up 500% compared to what itd cost to get a comparable amplifier made

What amps do you feel sell at a 500% markup besides premium snobophile brands?

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Where did I say that?

 

 

What amps do you feel sell at a 500% markup besides premium snobophile brands?

 

by the fact that you keep telling people they're wrong and you're right. its like a vegan who wants everyone to know theyre a vegan and that it somehow makes them better

 

let me research a few brands and ill get back to you i dont want to say something that isnt proven entirely although it is definitely happening


I AM The Future of personal transportation, NOW!!
Pretty sure everyone on this site hates you (@JohnKuthe) more then me and that's very hard to accomplish.

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Can't we all just get along?!


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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Critical Mass marks everythig up like a million percent.

 

Check out these 5.25 components with a by-it-now of $8600, lol. It's a $ 50 Dynavox driver rebadged with a Made In The USA sticker stuck on it. Pretty sure Dynavox isn't made in the USA, lol.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CM524A-CRITICAL-MASS-5-25-COMPONENT-system-audio-BEST-SPEAKER-2-way-Jl-8995-/292516612289?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

 

https://www.parts-express.com/dynavox-lw5004hr-n-5-1-4-honeycomb-cone-woofer--295-624

 

Some other fine examples, lol. Who the **** is buying Critical Mass?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITICAL-MASS-AUDIO-ULA800-V2-0-AMPLIFIER-BEST-QUALITY-4CH-AMP-800-WATTS-RMS-USA/292055915145?_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50999%26meid%3D095caa535a5e4394af8331251998a052%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291973550820%26itm%3D292055915145&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Critical-MASS-ULA-A5-BEST-AMPLIFIER-EVER-MADE-5CH-COMPETITION-AUDIOPHILE-AMP-USA/262343275754?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50999%26meid%3Dbd872bd5764f4c9c8b2d85534292e650%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D291973550820%26itm%3D262343275754&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITICAL-MASS-C652NX-6-5-PRO-COMPONENT-24DB-XOVER-CARBON-FIBER-MADE-USA-UL12/292506109130?epid=22017420418&hash=item441ab904ca:g:Le0AAOSwBnZav-Iq

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITICAL-MASS-UL12-BEST-AUDIO-SUBWOOFER-SPEAKER-EVER-jl-SUB-NR-AUDIOPHILE-12/292446940032?hash=item4417322b80:g:xZcAAOSwiqFaXQe9


Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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Critical Mass marks everythig up like a million percent.

 

Check out these 5.25 components with a by-it-now of $8600, lol. It's a $ 50 Dynavox driver rebadged with a Made In The USA sticker stuck on it. Pretty sure Dynavox isn't made in the USA, lol.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CM524A-CRITICAL-MASS-5-25-COMPONENT-system-audio-BEST-SPEAKER-2-way-Jl-8995-/292516612289?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

 

https://www.parts-express.com/dynavox-lw5004hr-n-5-1-4-honeycomb-cone-woofer--295-624

 

Some other fine examples, lol. Who the **** is buying Critical Mass?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITICAL-MASS-AUDIO-ULA800-V2-0-AMPLIFIER-BEST-QUALITY-4CH-AMP-800-WATTS-RMS-USA/292055915145?_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50999%26meid%3D095caa535a5e4394af8331251998a052%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291973550820%26itm%3D292055915145&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Critical-MASS-ULA-A5-BEST-AMPLIFIER-EVER-MADE-5CH-COMPETITION-AUDIOPHILE-AMP-USA/262343275754?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50999%26meid%3Dbd872bd5764f4c9c8b2d85534292e650%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D291973550820%26itm%3D262343275754&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITICAL-MASS-C652NX-6-5-PRO-COMPONENT-24DB-XOVER-CARBON-FIBER-MADE-USA-UL12/292506109130?epid=22017420418&hash=item441ab904ca:g:Le0AAOSwBnZav-Iq

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITICAL-MASS-UL12-BEST-AUDIO-SUBWOOFER-SPEAKER-EVER-jl-SUB-NR-AUDIOPHILE-12/292446940032?hash=item4417322b80:g:xZcAAOSwiqFaXQe9

 

CM is verrrrry expensive...I don't know how they stay in business. Most expensive car audio brand there is.


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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CM is verrrrry expensive...I don't know how they stay in business. Most expensive car audio brand there is.
It's the single biggest scam in audio. Not because the equipment is junk, but because they are raping people who clearly don't know any better. Marginal buyers with lots of cash and not much audio knowledge. Some of them deserve it, though, I guess.

 

The UL12 is a great driver and is was a bit expensive when it first came out a looooooong time ago, but it wasn't $13000.00. They use that one review from well over a decade ago and they just make the one sentence HUGE in all their ads about how it was the best (at that time) but they also fudge some of the actual review to remove the price it used to be (well under $1000) to reflect the new $13000.00 price. It's hilarious.


Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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It's the single biggest scam in audio. Not because the equipment is junk, but because they are raping people who clearly don't know any better. Marginal buyers with lots of cash and not much audio knowledge. Some of them deserve it, though, I guess.

 

The UL12 is a great driver and is was a bit expensive when it first came out a looooooong time ago, but it wasn't $13000.00. They use that one review from well over a decade ago and they just make the one sentence HUGE in all their ads about how it was the best (at that time) but they also fudge some of the actual review to remove the price it used to be (well under $1000) to reflect the new $13000.00 price. It's hilarious.

 

Was wondering how/why they were getting away with well lets slap a 5 digit pricetag on this amp and sell it....perhaps you can spill the beans on what makes their amps "special" compared to higher end car audio....like insides hand made/built....like they used to back in the 90's. Not anymore....


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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Was wondering how/why they were getting away with well lets slap a 5 digit pricetag on this amp and sell it....perhaps you can spill the beans on what makes their amps "special" compared to higher end car audio....like insides hand made/built....like they used to back in the 90's. Not anymore....
I dunno, man. I have no clue how they are pulling it off. Some well-respected amp guru tester guy should really make it a point to disrupt it, though.

Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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I dunno, man. I have no clue how they are pulling it off. Some well-respected amp guru tester guy should really make it a point to disrupt it, though.

 

It's very obvious how they are still in business... It's basically a more advanced version of the white van scam. You start out by posting TONS of ebay postings (Which is 100% Free) and you put absolutely stupid price tags on everything (Who knows maybe some idiot will buy it now), you show some BS images from 20 years ago on the cover of CSR with Shaq and you put up a facade that this really is the most high end gear on the planet. After that you put a couple of no reserve auctions out there... And people with no idea gobble them up in the $300-400 price range and those people think they are getting a steal. Meanwhile the gear your selling costs no more than $100 to produce.

 

Rinse and Repeat.

 

People LOVE thinking they are getting a deal.... a $20,000 amplifier for $400! OMG! Meanwhile they are clueless they are buying a average amp, and they likely could have had better for less.


Head Unit: Pioneer Avic-5201NEX

Amplifiers: Orion XTR1000.4, Alphard DB-2000.1D

Front Speakers: Infinity Perfect 600 Components

Rear Speakers: Image Dynamics ID6.5

Subwoofers: 2 JL Audio 12TW3-D4

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It's very obvious how they are still in business... It's basically a more advanced version of the white van scam. You start out by posting TONS of ebay postings (Which is 100% Free) and you put absolutely stupid price tags on everything (Who knows maybe some idiot will buy it now), you show some BS images from 20 years ago on the cover of CSR with Shaq and you put up a facade that this really is the most high end gear on the planet. After that you put a couple of no reserve auctions out there... And people with no idea gobble them up in the $300-400 price range and those people think they are getting a steal. Meanwhile the gear your selling costs no more than $100 to produce.

 

Rinse and Repeat.

 

People LOVE thinking they are getting a deal.... a $20,000 amplifier for $400! OMG! Meanwhile they are clueless they are buying a average amp, and they likely could have had better for less.

Right on, lol.

 

You should shame them with some solid vids, Blank.


Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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This amp could be the replacement to the Soundstream :)

 

Several people reported noise floor issues on diyma with those amps did you notice anything on your unit? That's the reason I steered clear for budget builds.


2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab 4x4

HU: CD7200MKII

Front Stage: SI TM25/ID X-69

Front Stage Amp: PG Ti21000.4

Sub Stage: Sundown SD-3 12 x2 (soon to be 3 SA-8v3s in a CSCStang TLine)

Sub Stage Amp: PG Ti22000.1

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so, when i joined this forum, i was under the impression that PPI $ucked from its former glory power class days when it went down the slippery slope of DEI badness. Is it fair to be very cautious with epsilon at the helms now?

 

More than fair. In fact, I wouldn't even bother with them anymore.


2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab 4x4

HU: CD7200MKII

Front Stage: SI TM25/ID X-69

Front Stage Amp: PG Ti21000.4

Sub Stage: Sundown SD-3 12 x2 (soon to be 3 SA-8v3s in a CSCStang TLine)

Sub Stage Amp: PG Ti22000.1

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