DB level of test tone for setting gain

It comes down to how confident you are in setting your gains. The higher the number, the safer you are with your equipment. When you tune with a negative db, you run the risk of putting out more power to your speakers or sub than you had actually intended since a lot of music is recorded with a higher db rating. I prefer to stay on the safe side myself.

For example, some rap songs are actually recorded with a + db on the bass rather than a flat to boost the bass in the song. If you tune with a -3 db rating and play that particular song recorded with a +3db in the bass, the amp will be putting out 6db higher to the subs than you had intended.

On the same note, it allows you to boost the bass more with the eq rather than using a bass boost on songs that are lacking in bass as well. Same goes for highs or mids or whichever you are tuning for.

 
It comes down to how confident you are in setting your gains. The higher the number, the safer you are with your equipment. When you tune with a negative db, you run the risk of putting out more power to your speakers or sub than you had actually intended since a lot of music is recorded with a higher db rating. I prefer to stay on the safe side myself.
For example, some rap songs are actually recorded with a + db on the bass rather than a flat to boost the bass in the song. If you tune with a -3 db rating and play that particular song recorded with a +3db in the bass, the amp will be putting out 6db higher to the subs than you had intended.

On the same note, it allows you to boost the bass more with the eq rather than using a bass boost on songs that are lacking in bass as well. Same goes for highs or mids or whichever you are tuning for.
There is no such thing as +3db when referring to a tracks recording, the loudest a CD can go is 0db, that's 0d away from the loudest it can be, hence 0db. If you set gains with a -3 track, the worst clipping you'll get is 3db's of clipping. This means any peak between 0db and -3db on a track will be clipped, between 3db's of clipping for a already 0db spot and at just under clipping, if it was a -3 part of the track.

Most bass heavy music is NOT as a loud as a 0db test tone. Even Jeezy, most Bass Mekanik, etc, etc is around -3 at most of their peaks.. Less bass heavy music, but still fairly bass heavy, most EDM type stuff, skrillex, bassnectar, older and more normal rap, etc, tend to be around -5dbs.

Most music has a crest factor of between 6-15db's, depending on what your listening too. If you like acoustic rock, softer stuff like that, it can go even higher. What crest factor is, is the difference between a source tracks average voltage and it's peak voltage. So if it has 0db tones in it, what is the average level, how much further down is that? That's what crest factor measures.

Knowing this, realize that if you DON'T clip anything ,ever so you use 0db tracks.. On most songs your mids and highs will be 10-15db's down from their "RMS" number on the box. (the peak voltage you set your gains with the DMM with).. So, let's say 12db to pick a number in the middle of that range. That corresponds to 1/16th the power.. So if you have a nice 250 watt amp on your mids, the mids will on average, being seeing 16 watts. They might see the 250 the speaker is rated for for only a very brief spurt of time (like less than a second, think a hard drum hit or loud vocal passage).. Clearly that's not how they rate speakers when they are using "RMS". Now if turn the gain up a bit, another 6db's worth, we now have a bit of clipping. We've also allowed our speakers to see 62 watts on average, and much closer to maximum power a majority of the time..

Subs work the same way. Yes, sub content tends to be less dynamic... However, subs are also much less sensative to clipping. Mostly because they have larger coils that handle more power easier. The extra power that occurs during clipping, some of it is higher order harmonics of the original signal, distortions. Most subs however have high enough inductance most of this "extra" never makes it out of the speaker, the coil inherently filters it out so you don't hear it. Also, since these harmonics are still relatively low in frequency, your ears don't notice them much anyways.. Lastly, even order distortion is the least offense to the ear and often just sounds warm.. Think about how electrical guitars sound, that is warm even order distortion from an amp. Long story short here, if you set gains with 0db tones, you either are

A. A serious competitor who is using 0db burping tones to see a number on a meter

B. An idiot who likes wasting the power he paid for

C. Someone who really never listens to music at any appreciable volume level..

D. Have amps rated at at least 2x the power rating of the speaker, really to not fall into category B, you'd want to have 4-6x rated power.. So yeah, if your running a 500 watt amp to your 125 watt rated midbasses, don't bother clipping.. Set gains with 0db tones and 500 watts worth of voltage and you should be good to go.

A little clipping isn't that dangerous.. I could write another post this size about why setting gains with a DMM is a silly *** idea, but I'm not going to bother right now. If you insist on setting gains that way, instead of using your ears and common sense to maximize equipment from song to song... Then at least use a -6db tone. -3 if you REALLY worried your going to break something and listen to nothing but hardcore bass heavy rap all day.

 
I hear what you're saying T3mpest, but telling the masses on here who are for the most part: NOT fkn experts on how to get the most out of their systems SAFELY - That they need to set their gains higher and in turn boosting the signal you have no clue how clean it is to start with and thus adding distortion into the mix = IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER

 
I hear what you're saying T3mpest, but telling the masses on here who are for the most part: NOT fkn experts on how to get the most out of their systems SAFELY - That they need to set their gains higher and in turn boosting the signal you have no clue how clean it is to start with and thus adding distortion into the mix = IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER
If someone can comprehend gain setting by DMM, DD-1, or an oscilloscope they can figure out gain setting by ear. All of these methods require training and practice. Why not share the knowledge of how to get better results? There are more problems to fix than just leaving amplifier power unused, like this epidemic of people thinking they need to worry about ******* box rise and buying more power than they need and beyond what their vehicle can handle reliably.

This isn't No Child Left Behind, this is better than public schooling.

 
If someone can comprehend gain setting by DMM, DD-1, or an oscilloscope they can figure out gain setting by ear. All of these methods require training and practice. Why not share the knowledge of how to get better results? There are more problems to fix than just leaving amplifier power unused, like this epidemic of people thinking they need to worry about ******* box rise and buying more power than they need and beyond what their vehicle can handle reliably.
This isn't No Child Left Behind, this is better than public schooling.
I hear ya, I was just first answering the OP's Q that this thread started from, and then offering my opinion of another member's response to our suggestions to the OP //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif I'm not going to offer a tutorial on how to properly, reliably, & safely design your system and set your gain, you can all research and learn that for yourselves if you don't know how //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif
 
Thank you all. This is a newer setup of equipment for me so I'm trying to be careful with it, thats why i was asking. Ill bump it up with a -3db tomorrow and see how that goes for meh.

Again, thank you all for the input.

 
If someone can comprehend gain setting by DMM, DD-1, or an oscilloscope they can figure out gain setting by ear. All of these methods require training and practice. Why not share the knowledge of how to get better results? There are more problems to fix than just leaving amplifier power unused, like this epidemic of people thinking they need to worry about ******* box rise and buying more power than they need and beyond what their vehicle can handle reliably.
This isn't No Child Left Behind, this is better than public schooling.
Exactly, if you can teach them to use square roots and operate a DMM then idea of listening for a sub bottoming out and to stop turning up knobs when thing stop getting louder shouldn't be nearly as difficult, and 99% of the time, that's enough "knowledge" to avoid blowing speakers. Still everytime I see someone set gains with a DMM, I facepalm (if that's their last step in adjustment and they don't fine tune by ear) and if it's 0db tones, I double facepalm lol.

 
I set gains with a DMM and 0db tones and I've had nothing but success.

I bass boost every single song I have. It's the peaks in percussion drums in my rap music that reach 0db. The bass lines are almost always -3db and lower. I use 0db because it's a great reference point to use. For example 30/50 on my HU will net me 1000watts at 0db, but bass lines will be using up 250-500wrms. 35/50 on my HU doubles the power, so now the peaks are 2000watts and bass lines are between 500-1000wrms. I know exactly how much power is being produced at all times.

 
I set gains with a DMM and 0db tones and I've had nothing but success.
I bass boost every single song I have. It's the peaks in percussion drums in my rap music that reach 0db. The bass lines are almost always -3db and lower. I use 0db because it's a great reference point to use. For example 30/50 on my HU will net me 1000watts at 0db' date=' but bass lines will be using up 250-500wrms. 35/50 on my HU doubles the power, so now the peaks are 2000watts and bass lines are between 500-1000wrms. I know exactly how much power is being produced at all times.[/quote']

So you go to the trouble of artifically boosting every bit of music you have, instead of just turning up your gains to compensate for the lower recorded volume? Just so you can avoid clipping that would be inaudible and would not effect your speakers negatively in any way. Please do go on about how this makes so much sense.. I have 2500 songs on my ipod... Time to get to work I guess! What about the songs that aren't "bassy" or do you physically not listen to anything other than rap?
 
Please do go on about how this makes so much sense
This has nothing much to do with gains. I hate the idea of one song having much lower/higher amplitude of bass than another song. So I level my songs to be able to play them all at the same volume on the HU and draw the same power give or take a couple notches on the HU. Otherwise, some songs would draw too much power at 20/50 or too little power at 40/50.

Get it?

 
This has nothing much to do with gains. I hate the idea of one song having much lower/higher amplitude of bass than another song. So I level my songs to be able to play them all at the same volume on the HU and draw the same power give or take a couple notches on the HU. Otherwise' date=' some songs would draw too much power at 20/50 or too little power at 40/50.
Get it?[/quote']

No.. That's the entire point of volume knobs! If a song is recorded loud, only play it at 30 voume instead of 40 volume. If a song is quiet, play it was 45 volume.. If a song has a quiet bassline or is bad recording, kick the subwoofer out on your deck up a few notches. That' exactly why they always say to use 3/4 volume so you have some fudge room in your gain structure for quiet recordings. You know what top SPL sounds like in you car, when you hit that point, you stop turning it up. ****, install a clip light if your that scared. Gain knobs, truly honest to god, despite what most car audio guys think ARE volume knobs..

There inherent purpose has nothing to do with preout voltage matching. It's for ACOUSTIC LEVEL MATCHING, aka volume.. Ex, you have a 98db/1w/1m speaker mated to a 93.5db/1w/1m speaker and need them to reach the same SPL at the same time.. That's what gains are actually for.

This idea of setting gains at the amplifier side using a DMM started in car audio and has misapplied ever since.. DMM's for a preamp to another preamp is perfectly fine and is used in pro audio to maximize signal to noise ratio.. Car audio industry has taken it to new levels of stupid. Partially because most of them misapply the idea, using it on the amp output side because they didn't know any better. Also partially beacuse if your burping tones in a competition, it's a fairly decent idea. Lasty, because companies latched onto the idea when they realized it was great for business. It makes customers feel the need to buy 2x the amp size they'd actually need since they get **** all for power out of it, also minimizing product returns. Pretty hard to blow a speaker when your amp puts out 1/4 the power it's capable of for most of a song.

You have audacity? Send me a file of some of your music, I'm half curious now what your doing to it.. I'll analyze your music for you and post some results, if your interested. tempest343@gmail.com
 
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