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good car audio shops - becoming a thing of the past?

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3kgtAudio
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Phoenix AZ
I am current owner of a car audio / home theater shop in AZ, we have always focused on quality and value, I have never cared that some dude on craigslist is underbidding me by a huge margin, and we had a good deal of success and tons of happy customers over the years. However, It has been a disturbing trend in the last year or so in regards to the car audio side of things, there have been several 'hack' shops popping up all over the place, killing the market totally. We are competing against shops that are making $20 on a deck install(including the deck), $75 on a remote start installation, and no regard to quality or customer service, yet people go to them in droves! And yes they are hack shops, I have seen and fixed their work many times. They only care about moving product and getting that sale and having you in and out as quickly as possible.

However, in the home theater side of the business we have been very successful, and we find that customers prefer quality and recognize that hiring an experienced tech that can give them a top notch job is worth a few extra bucks. So naturally, we have been focusing our efforts in that arena.

Here is my take on it, the average car audio consumer seems to think in regards to car audio that they should always choose the best deal - they do not see the value of experience and paying someone who is a true skilled professional, who charges based on what they need to make on a job. A 'fair' price is not paying someone pennies to do a skilled labor job, and quite frankly car audio and security is a fairly complex field, quite a bit more so that people realize.

Bottom line, as a shop, I simply will not dip down to where we are barely scraping by just to get jobs in the door, I feel like I cannot offer a quality service at that level, I personally would rather throw in the towel than conform. And let me say our prices are very reasonable, but we are constantly losing bids to these 'hacks'. It ***** to say this, and I see other real deal shops around going through the same thing, many of them close. So IMO, if this trend continues by some point the 'old school' or good shops are going to be gone.

So, I know this is a car audio forum, and most people here are going to be a little better educated in regards to what it really takes to do a good job, and what a fair deal is, but any other pro's out there feel the same way? Is there really no need for us anymore and are people truely happy with mediocre service? Hack shops and the home of the $1 dash fire have really de-valued this industry. Is the lowest possible price always going to be the winner at the end of the day?

Anyways, thats just my rant, I love cars and love to work on them, but it just doesn't pay the bills anymore.

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I hear you!! X2. I am in the same boat with you! My belief is that you get what you pay for. If you want quality work and products pay for it and hold the shop to your highest expectations. If you wanna buy cheap;don't complain when you purchase from an Internet website or shop that screws you on warranty or labor because you are trying to be cheap. The Car Audio industry use to be a lucrative business to be in as long as you had the knowledge and skills. Now it's like consumers are expecting so much for nothing and we wonder why shops are cutting cost and taking short cuts! You get what you pay for! I refuse to stoop to this level in return it hurts my business because I am not the cheapest and people go else where. I just refuse to do the job half ***! My rant lol

 
I typically do work by myself but when it comes to box building or something I'm clueless on I'm willing to pay a premium. My.local shop charges 300 bucks for a custom box for my t-top storage area, but I had seen there boxes before and knew they were quality. Heck I looked inside mine the other day and the attention to detail was crazy. The dude took 6+ hours on my box. It was worth the 300 vs a hack job for 150. The one thing that sold me was there customer service though. Absolutely 100% top notch. Every customer that comes in there they call by name. They only.sell you what you need and not useless crap. The guys actually care about the hobby. I go in there just to talk sometimes. Btw, I'm 18 and work a minimum wage job and still am willing to spend that much for quality.

 
The trend today is by stuff cheap from distributors online and put it together yourself.

I saved loads of money that way. Never paid anybody to do anything for me.

This is the information age. Google is the new library. Learning to do stuff is as easy as 1 2 3. No need for "experts" anymore that charge $100 for an amp install.

 
man that ***** for you. Where i'm at, we have an opposite problem, a lot of shops are jacking up the price as high as possible and they nickel and dime you on every part of the install while using cheap parts and they get a lot of business from people who dont know better. There are still reputable shops that do amazing installs though and they still make good money. Its pretty lucrative in ghetto areas in California where all the people receiving welfare checks for all the babies they pop out.

 
hmm maybe I should setup shop in the ghetto then lol.

It is the information age, but there still are plenty of people who just do not have the skills necessary to go tearin into their car. But yeah, the subtle expectation is that people want dealer cost and free install, and some of these ghetto shops around here have to be laundering money or something, because you cant give product away at cost and then install it for pennies and stay in business.

There are people who are willing to pay for someone to take their time and give them quality service, unfortunately that is far from the majority, from my perspective at least.

Buyers out there - you may love it, but if your not a business, you shouldn't be able to get stuff at dealer cost. You may jump up and down and scream how you deserve it, but you don't. Thats why there is MAP = minimum advertized price. These online supersellers don't give a crap though, and the manufacturers look the other way. Grey markets online have totally cut the dealers out of the picture and are giving away their products. I suppose their logic is $5 is a good margin if they sell 1000 a day. Good for buyer and good for that massive warehouse, but killer for the economy.

 
Buyers out there - you may love it, but if your not a business, you shouldn't be able to get stuff at dealer cost.
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Yes I should. This is capitalism.

You gotta price I am willing to pay, then we have a deal. That's how it goes.

Nobody was complaining back in the day when you can get stuff dirt cheap through mail order catalog because it wasn't as widespread. Now you got the internet........

Thats why there is MAP = minimum advertized price
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That's if the distributor and manufacturer agree to such terms. But what happens when the distributor says "no deal Mr. manufacturer"? Then Mr. Manu's products don't sell. So then Mr. Manu comes back to Mr. Distro and renegotiates like a good boy. Capitalism is fun. Had it not been for these dirt cheap distributor prices, I would not be into car audio.

 
Its not capitalism at all,

By your logic, then whats the point of being a dealer? I shouldn't even bother trying to sell anything at all, theres nothing in it. And no the average consumer should not be able to get stuff at cost..period, and you are in no way entitled to it unless you have a tax id and you setup an account with said manufacturer. Thats the way it should work, but the market is polluted. Websites that sell at dealer cost to public are violating terms set forth by manufacturers, and if the mfg's had the balls to really enforce it, they could. So what are guys like us supposed to do, just make nothing, but be there to support your product when you come back because it fails for some manufactuer's defect or warranty? Its not a charity. Thankfully there are some companies that do regulate online sales and do require terms to be abided by, its called dealer protection. Problem is, its only a select few.

Funny thing is, you don't see this same thing in other industries. You can't buy clothes at cost online, even though there is a massive markup on every single article of clothing you see. You cant buy food at cost....good luck finding furniture or other home products at cost, so on. Go walk down the isle at wal-mart and just try to find anything cheaper online outside of the electronics department. Yep, prob not gonna find it, unless you are a DEALER of said product. Now, Imagine for a minute if tomorrow an online website called 'Everything Dealer Cost'- you could do this with all the daily products you buy and use at the prices all the stores pay, everyone would be running strait for it. Until you all realized that suddenly you and most of the people you know are either out of a job or are taking a massive pay cut, and suddenly those sweet deals don't taste so sweet.

So why do we all think that audio is different? Should shops just get screwed and all of the people out there who counted on this industry to feed their family's? Fact is, its should't happen, but it does, and its because the market got all screwed up thats why. And thats why a good chunk of people have and will always have ****** installs, they expect it all for too cheap, and veteran installers like me and some of the others that have 20+ years under their belts won't be around to help ya anymore.

 
The trend today is by stuff cheap from distributors online and put it together yourself.
I saved loads of money that way. Never paid anybody to do anything for me.

This is the information age. Google is the new library. Learning to do stuff is as easy as 1 2 3. No need for "experts" anymore that charge $100 for an amp install.
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Its not as easy as 1 2 3. Some people may be mechanically inclined and can pull it off, but some people would (and do) screw it up so bad, they would probably do damage to their $20,000 car and then that $100 could have save them thousands in repairs. It all sounds so sweet until you actually NEED an expert. I have forgotten more about car audio than most of you ever know, and thats from experience that you are not just going to 'google'. Unfortunately from what I see, there are a lot of people that share your logic, or they think car audio labor should be 'cheap' and isn't that hard because they 'Googled' it. LOL! If someone thinks they can come to the plate with their rudimentary online knowledge and thinks they can play ball with someone who has been in it for 20 years they are in for a wake up call.

Its also funny to me how many people drive around in a $20-30k car or truck, then have a heart attack about paying $300 for an alarm / remote start, which is probably less than half of their car payment. LOL

 
ts not capitalism at all, By your logic, then whats the point of being a dealer? I shouldn't even bother trying to sell anything at all, theres nothing in it.
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If there's nothing in it, then you find something else to do. It's a hard pill to swallow, but that's life. You can't get mad because someone else found a better way to make money and take business from you. That's how capitalism works. It can make you rich, it can make you poor.

and you are in no way entitled to it unless you have a tax id and you setup an account with said manufacturer. Thats the way it should work, but the market is polluted. Websites that sell at dealer cost to public are violating terms set forth by manufacturers, and if the mfg's had the balls to really enforce it, they could.
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What if the manu's don't care about terms when they see their distributors can deliver products in large amounts? Then what? Nobody is doing anything wrong if that's the way they want to do business with each other.

It seems like you are upset with the manufacturers more than anybody else. They dictate everything because they have the product. But when the distributor says "*** off with your stupid terms", what do you want them to do? He, with the cheapest price, wins.

Imagine if Sundown took a dump on their dealers tonight and starting doing business with sonicelectronix. lolololololol Sundown would be on NASDAQ.

 
If there's nothing in it' date=' then you find something else to do. It's a hard pill to swallow, but that's life. You can't get mad because someone else found a better way to make money and take business from you. That's how capitalism works. It can make you rich, it can make you poor.


What if the manu's don't care about terms when they see their distributors can deliver products in large amounts? Then what? Nobody is doing anything wrong if that's the way they want to do business with each other.

It seems like you are upset with the manufacturers more than anybody else. They dictate everything because they have the product. But when the distributor says "*** off with your stupid terms", what do you want them to do? He, with the cheapest price, wins.

Imagine if Sundown took a dump on their dealers tonight and starting doing business with sonicelectronix. lolololololol Sundown would be on NASDAQ.[/quote']

Demand for said product wouldn't change as much as you think. Im all about fair pricing, but **** you don't want anyone to make money, and thats just stupidity. Btw by your attitude and posting style I can tell your probably pretty young, a lot of this stuff is probably over your head. Im not mad at ya, but you have a very Naive view point.

Manufacturers do have a hand in it, but its not totally their fault, its also the cheap consumer that has de-valued it. My point is, if your going to be a consumer, don't expect me to be a dealer, support your product, and then make nothing on it. People need dealers, whether they can admit it or not, and that online distributor that made $5, well they are going to give you about $5 worth of customer support.

Its all fine, Im not mad, because there are other areas where we get paid for our skills, just not in car audio. It sad, but its the way its trending. Im sure you wouldn't like it if tomorrow someone told you that your skils were worth 10% of what they were a year ago, and now you gotta live on that...good luck.
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If there is a portion of the world's economy that still retains some semblance of capitalism, it is indeed the consumer electronics industry. What is called capitalism today is more often than not, mercantilism and all too often, it's salted heavily with socialism and fascism... especially in the west.

There is a phenomena that stems from free market capitalism called creative destruction and what that means is that as technology improves, that which is old gives sway to that which is new. We see examples of creative destruction in history, such as the introduction of the automobile and the subsequent destruction of the horse drawn buggy industry.

Were the buggy manufacturer's angry that the horseless carriage changed their modus operandi? Most of them were. After all, these noisy contraptions were taking their profits. But what if, rather than complain and lobby the state, they had actually sat down as honest entrepreneurs and thought out some way to compete rather than complain? Well... some of those companies would now be auto manufacturers who had been in business since the early 19th century. But we don't see those companies, because they bItched and complained instead of conforming to the progress of humanity.

We see this same creative destruction at work today with the record industry, who's executives have become accustomed to raking the lion's share of an artist's gross earnings. Were those executives overpaid in 1989? Probably not. But with the technology we have at our disposal today, anyone can produce and market their art for next to nothing with only an inexpensive computer, an internet connection and some due diligence. So for sure, those guys are overpaid today. And for sure, they are dying a slow and necessary death in the marketplace.

As for car audio, I don't like to install stuff that people buy from other sellers but if I don't, I alienate a large portion of the market. So what do I do to save that business and keep my profits? I don't have a retail location that costs me $6000.00 a month whether I sell a head unit or not. I don't commit to buying volumes that, if I don't meet my sales, force me to buy new product when the old hasn't moved. I don't spend money on expensive advertising media that is, like the record industry, in the throes of death and, I don't complain that things aren't the way they used to be.

And what I do is, act as more of a car audio consultant than a suit and tie salesman. Sell the the knowledge I have to people who want to pay for it and, not be angry with the people who don't want to pay for it.

 
Personally I do all my installs myself, only thing about my system that I didn't build is my box, and that's because I don't have the tools, skills, or means of transporting a big ol sheet of MDF needed to build a box. I've started purchasing all my equipment either used or from a dealer, even if I could get it for $20 cheaper somewhere else. Dealers will be much more apt to help you with any questions you might have. For example, I bought a Soundstream Vr764B head unit off mylows10 (Jim) for $225 even though I could find it elsewhere for $160 used. When I got it I wasn't sure where to hook in a couple wires so I sent Jim a quick text and he immediately called me and explained what the wires did and answered any questions I had. Amazon wouldn't do that, nor would woofer warehouse or parts express. Plus, it feels good helping out a fellow human being/basshead/friend. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
If there is a portion of the world's economy that still retains some semblance of capitalism, it is indeed the consumer electronics industry. What is called capitalism today is more often than not, mercantilism and all too often, it's salted heavily with socialism and fascism... especially in the west.
There is a phenomena that stems from free market capitalism called creative destruction and what that means is that as technology improves, that which is old gives sway to that which is new. We see examples of creative destruction in history, such as the introduction of the automobile and the subsequent destruction of the horse drawn buggy industry.

Were the buggy manufacturer's angry that the horseless carriage changed their modus operandi? Most of them were. After all, these noisy contraptions were taking their profits. But what if, rather than complain and lobby the state, they had actually sat down as honest entrepreneurs and thought out some way to compete rather than complain? Well... some of those companies would now be auto manufacturers who had been in business since the early 19th century. But we don't see those companies, because they bItched and complained instead of conforming to the progress of humanity.

We see this same creative destruction at work today with the record industry, who's executives have become accustomed to raking the lion's share of an artist's gross earnings. Were those executives overpaid in 1989? Probably not. But with the technology we have at our disposal today, anyone can produce and market their art for next to nothing with only an inexpensive computer, an internet connection and some due diligence. So for sure, those guys are overpaid today. And for sure, they are dying a slow and necessary death in the marketplace.

As for car audio, I don't like to install stuff that people buy from other sellers but if I don't, I alienate a large portion of the market. So what do I do to save that business and keep my profits? I don't have a retail location that costs me $6000.00 a month whether I sell a head unit or not. I don't commit to buying volumes that, if I don't meet my sales, force me to buy new product when the old hasn't moved. I don't spend money on expensive advertising media that is, like the record industry, in the throes of death and, I don't complain that things aren't the way they used to be.

And what I do is, act as more of a car audio consultant than a suit and tie salesman. Sell the the knowledge I have to people who want to pay for it and, not be angry with the people who don't want to pay for it.
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That was our approach too, low overhead - cut costs, we were right on the mark with pricing and infact under, and had a pretty loyal customer base, but recently a new wave of undercutters came through, which have now made it no longer worth while. Our skills and knowledge which is our selling point as of late appearantly means nothing. It may be due to the hack shops that are posting fake reviews for themselves and bascially giving stuff away, so now what was a fair price is 'overpriced' in the local customer base's opinion. So, if thats the going trend, I welcome anyone to come on in and do their $20 deck installs, will not be us, we will be happily servicing our home theater / security / commercial clients.

Btw, one of these undercutter hack shops is now going out of business because they didn't pay their rent, hmm wonder why. Once you start to drop your prices and compete with the hackers, its a slipperly slope, suddenly you become one, its best in any business to retain your value. Profit margins on a product is one thing, but labor is what it is, when that has no value anymore then its time to get out.

Heres an example of what sets us apart (just s small example)

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/491266-1993-mitsu-3000gt-vr-4-a.html

 
Btw by your attitude and posting style I can tell your probably pretty young, a lot of this stuff is probably over your head. Im not mad at ya, but you have a very Naive view point.
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My attitude stems from the fact that I abhor the concept that two human beings must be regulated by "rules" before they are allowed to do business with each other, in a capitalistic society, of all things.

So when I read stuff like "you should not get anything at dealer cost unless you have blah blah blah", it upsets me because it implies the concept above.

 
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