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2000 mercury mystique-first ever custom install and need advice

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chefzane

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I am installing a system from front to back and need some advice. Its a 2000 mercury mystique(trunk car) and I'm not completely ignorant at this stuff just don't know some of the more intricate details. I will list what I have and have done then what I think I need to get and do. From there is where I need help. I know some of you will rag on me about some decisions in products used, I am aware of the limitations of these things and better quality will be purchased when the products I have fry so I don't need a list of buy this and that I need info on install etc. Here goes: What I have installed: Head: JVC KD-S39 All doors: kicker DS682 component systems (1 speaker each door, 1 tweeter on pillar) Rear deck: audio pipe ts-vr8 8" 4ohm dvc 175 rms each x2 Trunk: kicker 10cvr124 12" 4ohm dvc 400 rms each x2 Door amp: audiobahn a4004j 50x4 at 4ohms Rear deck amp: audiobahn a4002j 250x2 at 2ohms Trunk amp: audiobahn a8002j 500x2 at 2ohms Xover: planet audio ecb20 3 way active What install I have done so far: Installed head unit with the only connection to the rest of the system being the RCA cables and the remote turn on the remote runs down the driver side with the 8 gauge power cable to the trunk the RCA cables run down the passenger side to the trunk along with all doors speaker wires except the rear driver door speaker wire runs under the back seat to the passenger side and joins the other three doors wires and RCA cables before entering the trunk the rear deck is custom made panel that has a baffle board that holds the 8 inch subs and the terminal plate for them that is bolted to the top with a layer of weather stripping underneath to help seal the box that is attached to the bottom of the rear deck for them it has also been foamed in completely underneath and the rear deck is solid the trunk has a framed and paneled floor the box for the 12 sits on top of that up against the back seat frame it is 38 inches wide 16tall and 15 deep at the top and 18 deep at the bottom so it basically has a slant of 3 inches on the back side against the seat with the subs and the terminal plates for them on the trunk side and it's sealed the sides of the trunk have been paneled and framed the driver side rear pocket is built into a battery box that will have the distros on top and the passenger side is paneled into a cove and will have the amp rack and xover tucked there the side of the box for the 12 as well as the whole front between the backseat and the box and the sides of the car have all been foamed so that the trunk is completely sealed as well as the vent pockets in the rear corners basically the box for the 12 is completely airtight as well as the trunk area itself outside of the box

What I plan to do and need advice on 1 Run two lengths of one gauge wire to the rear battery with 1 gauge to 4 8 gauge distros coming of the positive and negative to the amps 2 Install hi low converter on the high side of the deck to gain two more sets of RCA cables for a total of 4 set to run the doors off two sets and two set to the crossover that has 3 output creating a four-way system: doors, bass, mid, treble 3 install six by nines and tweeters and another 4 channel amp 4 CCF and MLV in the doors and floors and trunk lid and trucks sides with CLD tiles on all the door and fender and trunk lid skins as well as a spare tire well and roof of car 5 cut 3 3 inch holes in the rear deck for a direct air coupling between the cabin and the trunk? This will create a sort of 4th order bandpass I think???? This one I need an answer on before I do it ASAP 6 build amp rack and install 2 push fans and 2 pull fans to force air over the amps and crossover 7 last but not least is finalize all wiring positions and mounts and install 300 LEDs in various spots locations all wired together to controller then I can add the padding and final material to cover everything

I am sure I have left a few things out on the sides of what I have done and what I plan to do but this is it for the most part any suggestions ideas creative solutions to problems not seen will be greatly appreciated I plan on entering this car in USAC and IASCA sq competitions starting at the Rookie level since this is my first ever

By the way I am in Tulsa Oklahoma if anybody lives around here that can help me out or has the équipement like a good RTA or sound generators(not phone apps) or even a term lab or equivalent to test all this it would be even more greatly appreciated just let me know and I'll give you my number

Thanks in advance to all those who help will post pics today in a build log

Click to read more...
 
that was very hard to read. please use punctuation (periods and commas). use line returns to separate thoughts.

ok, so clarify a few things:

A. the rear deck midbass are in their own sealed enclosure and do not share any airspace with the subs? i assume/recommend not.

B. you are not using the single 12" in a box in the trunk anymore? i assume/recommend not.

C. the box you made for the 12's is sealed and not vented? i assume not.

What I plan to do and need advice on 1. Run two lengths of one gauge wire to the rear battery with 1 gauge to 4 8 gauge distros coming of the positive and negative to the amps

2. Install hi low converter on the high side of the deck to gain two more sets of RCA cables for a total of 4 set to run the doors off two sets and two set to the crossover that has 3 output creating a four-way system: doors, bass, mid, treble

3. install six by nines and tweeters and another 4 channel amp

4. CCF and MLV in the doors and floors and trunk lid and trucks sides with CLD tiles on all the door and fender and trunk lid skins as well as a spare tire well and roof of car

5. cut 3 3 inch holes in the rear deck for a direct air coupling between the cabin and the trunk? This will create a sort of 4th order bandpass I think????

This one I need an answer on before I do it ASAP

6. build amp rack and install 2 push fans and 2 pull fans to force air over the amps and crossover

7. last but not least is finalize all wiring positions and mounts and install 300 LEDs in various spots locations all wired together to controller then I can add the padding and final material to cover everything
Click to expand...
answers. (note how much easier it is to read with line returns)

1. 1/0 to the rear battery is fine. just remember to fuse any wire connected to the positive terminal of any battery, within 18".

2. using a LOC to gain RCA outputs is fine but distortion will be high if you don't set your gains accordingly. i would not run the HU volume above 50%.

3. where would you put the 6x9's? more speakers = more volume and more phase issues. it won't necessarily sound better but it can be louder.

4. all of that can help.

5. your subs are aimed into the trunk with no good path for air into the cabin. basically, you're wasting bass. i recommend reversing your idea and firing the subs into the cabin and sealing off the trunk. for a vent you could vent through the rear deck (in one photo it looks like there is a vent in the rear deck to the sub box. you don't have to vent the sub box and sealed is fine, venting will increase output. you could make holes and create a bandpass but it won't be tuned and can sound worse. those holes are still not going to give the same benefit as just firing the subs into the cabin.

6. fans are fine. crossover doesn't need air.

7. 300 separate LED's is time consuming. buy some pre-made LED strips.

if you have money for additional stuff, buy a new head unit with 6 preouts first. that saves you the LOC issue.

re-run your RCA's. that route looks like they will fail from rubbing on the metal edge.

 
A. Yes own sealed box

B. No not using the single

C. Yes its sealed

1. Yes I plan on fusing both ends in between battery's and fusing each 4 or 8 gauge run in between distro and amp, should I fuse the neg in between battery's and in between distro and amp also?

2. What should I use instead of y cables to go from two sets to four sets? Or just from one set to two cuz the xover only has three outs so I can just split one of those? I don't like y cables cuz ur basically splitting the voltage too right?

3. 6x9s and a set of tweets or two more component sets just diff size from what I already have. I can put them a couple places like in the kicks or in the doors if two more comp sets or move the eights to under front seats and put those in the rear deck box or eights to kicks but that's a ***** or in the front dash I dunno

4. What order does it go I know CLD on inside door skin, seal the door, then CCF, then MLV, then door panel?

5. What if I cut the back out of the box, turn the subs, then use the trunk area as the sealed portion or infinite baffle type setup? I don't have enough clearance to mount them between the seat and face of box, unless I cut it out and try to move it in making a small box smaller? What about a large slot behind 8" panel? Or move the eights, cut holes in that box, and make a cover to replace the eights panel with the 6x9s instead so it is open to the trunk and house the other speakers?

6. Its Oklahoma so trunk temps can get into 150+ easily so yea they are necessary. Twenty bucks and some time and that amp rack will stay cool I'll post pics when thru it'll be pretty cool

7. Yea I have the 5050 rgb 300 per 5m strip I'm gonna cut and solder and make jumps throughout the trunk and cabin

RCA spot was temporary

HU will prolly be first upgrade then a mini dsp, then start all over with the rest upgrading one thing at a time

All I can say is thank you for your help if you know anyone near Tulsa Oklahoma who can help with setup and tuning lemme know

 
2. y-cables don't reduce voltage. parallel circuits have the same voltage. current increases and the voltage gain relationship between HU output impedance and the halved amplifier input impedance results in a slight reduction in voltage delivered, but more like 10% reduction.

4. CLD goes on the metal surfaces first. I put absorption in the doors, my build logs detail that. then seal doors. end result of the door is when knocking on the metal it should sound more like wood. CCF is for rattles and panel/clip isolation so use it where it makes sense. if you are doing MLV then you need CCF (or some other soft material) between the MLV and metal surfaces for it to be effective (any sound barrier should be decoupled from other hard surfaces).

5. you can mount the subs to the inside of the baffle instead of the outside - that way you have clearance. i recommend absorption in the sealed box also. IB requires specific subs and you'd be wasting trunk space to leave the box in place for IB. your idea to keep the rear deck speakers sealed is a good one. just add absorption in there also. you want sound absorption in sealed enclosures. if anything, add a rectangular port through the rear deck. two round ports are also sufficient - length to be determined by tuning recommendations. i like sealed enclosures though.

there are assloads of people around Tulsa. start hitting up shows for MECA, USACi, and IASCA and hang out in the SQ area. they will tell you to avoid adding 6x9's to your car and to remove the tweeters on your b-pillars. they will tell you to try to get all of the sound to come from the dash - while no speakers are on the dash, it can sound as if the performers are on the hood of your car once you get speaker locations, crossovers, and time alignment situated. the rear 8's are fine for midbass (though midbass is desired to be up front). if you want to make the car louder, move to a 3-way front soundstage. that way you get a dedicated midrange that plays cleaner and louder and a dedicated midbass up front. time align the speakers and they will add together well. if you can get those 8's in your front doors and the 6.5's in your kicks you will be taking the right steps. make that your next goal, if possible. if those 8's don't fit, Helix Esprit will.

you can get a head unit with processing to avoid the need for a DSP. the Alpine CDA-9887 has a good amount of processing available (what i use).

 
Planned on putting the eights under the seats at first but won't work without moving seats two inches up

What Is a good three way front stage gonna cost and do I need to amp it

I am trying to start hitting up shows just gotta get a few things finished before I feel it should be seen by anyone this is my first go round and entering as a rookie I don't wanna win it all from the start or be dead last ya know, I just don't want these guys to look at me and dismiss me right away, I am trying to turn this into a hobby and want to enjoy the scene not feel crappy every time I show up.

Thank you tremendously for the advice and not treating me like an idiot guys, its greatly appreciated.

 
you can attend shows as a spectator and not demo anything.

you can reuse your existing equipment for a 3-way front stage. and yes, every speaker should have an external amp, the HU shouldn't power anything. though i have no issues with the 8's where you have them and you did a good job integrating them into the rear deck. i honestly like what you've done so far with the wood working. for now, work on making your front doors as solid as possible and maybe remove some metal to allow for a shallow 8" in there. then just use a 6.5" baffle on top for now. you only want to cut metal and deaden once.

the sub bezel stays in place, the hole for the subs gets a bit larger to clear the surrounds. i recommend some closed cell weatherstripping foam around the bezel to seal against the wood.



it ends up like this (except with the box on the back):

accordtrunk0513015.jpg


UltraSubsA-12004_zps4feca6f7.jpg


UltraSubsA-12001_zps9050d3b0.jpg


i recently thickened my baffle to 2-1/4". a few more layers won't hurt you either

IMG_20130521_241330_901.jpg


 
Sounds good to me will that effect anything soundwise with it firing right at the back seat? The seat itself has no hard internals that I know of, maybe a frame, stiff foam and padding with the cover over it held by the cinched cable around the backside (OEM SEAT).

Thank you on the wood work. Its all getting covered with the same color as the rear deck prolly with a thin layer of foam underneath for texture other than hard wood like the rear deck is.

The sub box and eight box is built into the car and can't be moved neither can the rear deck panel. Well they can but it would **** as everything is screwed, glued, caulked, foamed, and sawdust wood puttied into place. I can however cut the holes in the back for the new sub face while its installed and just put another layer over the existing sub face and just use it as internal bracing?

Then use the mdf rings in between top of bezel and baffle to ensure space between seat and cone OR

on bottom side of bezel as it is now and bolt this way: Baffle bezel mdf with a bolt going thru all so that the flange is sandwiched and doesn't get marred up from bolts and nuts rubbing it?

Plan on getting another head unit soon but why not run a DSP if I plan on continuing to compete and decide to upgrade later I will already be a step ahead right? And plus I thought the processing capabilities of most reasonably priced(under300) HU is limited and a mini-dsp plus a $200 deck is less than the high end deck alone that has the same or less capabilities right? I dunno for sure just seems that way to me.

 
a miniDSP would need to be 8 channels to be of much use to you. and you need a laptop to make adjustments. a 2 channel unit would only give you an EQ that is cumbersome to adjust. if you just want an EQ, buy a 1/2DIN or trunk mount. you could spend $500-700 on processing alone.

i understand the box is built-in. and it sounds like you cannot remove the face on the seat side because of the vertical support. in that case you could cut holes in it and mount the subs from the rear. if you want a MDF ring to sandwich the bezel that is doable. you will also totally eliminate trunk rattle since nothing will fire into the trunk. you could also use the vertical surface for amp mounting and have some available trunk space.

 
True, again I'm thinking way too much on it. An eq is the next logical step.

A quick question, are any of the RTA apps on android or apple worth using to set up my system? They say they can but my thinking is its limited to the device mics capability right? And are the tone generators worthwhle? Again wouldn't this be limited by the device not the app? Where is somewhere I can get test tones that I can trust the quality of? I guess I need to sign up for IASCA, USAC, and MECA and get the discs so I can start seeing where I can improve also.

Yea I was trying to think of how I wanted to permanently mount the amps to show them off (cuz they is purdy lookin lol) and keep them out of the way. If I have to change a flat all I have to do is lift the bottom panel (not seen in pics it covers whole bottom and covers all the ugly, 3/4 ply with 10 philips head cam bolts)and unscrew around the edges and my spare and jack are under there so I don't want anything I can't remove easily with just a screwdriver. The spare tire is there cuz that's a requirement for IASCA if not other two. I know people mount amps on the box all the time but I just think it would rattle them too much? What about a layer of foam between the amp and board.

 
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chefzane

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