Electrical set ups If you got em show em!

[KicktheSDbasshead]

First link on Google for Maxwell bank is one for 280$ on Alibaba. I figured 350 would be about right after shipping if you weren't buying freight quantity, but OK, what's your price on them?

I have some YingLong 40AH cells I'm selling for 50 ea. 75ea is the high side, but compare cycle life to non Titanate flavor LiFePO and you're coming out way ahead in the long term. For what it's worth I don't think anything (especially shipping from China) is getting cheaper going forward so whichever way you go don't wait too long on this.

Quite a spread on the price of Headway cells. At 40 for an 8AH bank they would probably be worth buying at 80 not so much. (83WH/KG energy density on those which puts them about middle of the road for various flavors of LiFePO).

Do what you like, but do understand the actual energy stored in your supercapacitors and plan accordingly. This isn't a matter of "why do you need to get stupid loud", it's more like "why are you buying a 5500/F550 series pickup truck?" If you're looking to tow something big you're choosing the right vehicle, if you're looking to compete in a F1 race, not so much. Either way this **** isn't free so you had best to figure out what your electrical system needs to do, for how long, and manage your space/weight/budget optimally because you don't have unlimited of any of those things.


Lishen also has what 25C rating vs 10C for YingLong? For purpose of burst current the 18 Lishen should outperform the YingLong 40 at the expense of reserve. Personally I'd use 2 banks for what you're doing just to make sure they never operate above half their max C rating but you're certainly using either within their specified limits. What is your experience driving around or parked playing music with either? You have a voltage gauge?

I'm interested in those 50.00 40 ah yin longs and thanks for the heads up but I'm already so far into my 2 builds I bounce back and forth changing and switching the amount of money I spent is obscene

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I'm interested in those 50.00 40 ah yin longs and thanks for the heads up but I'm already so far into my 2 builds I bounce back and forth changing and switching the amount of money I spent is obscene

Personally I haven't heard many good reasons to use supercaps as opposed to other options and with higher and higher C rating lithium cells coming along I feel they're becoming even more obsolete for our purposes unless you just don't have any limits on money or space or get a super deal on them somehow.

At some point you may just get tired of rebuilding all the time. It's nice to go through a season or two without having to do major overhauls or dump thousands of dollars extra.

I think I have like 72 of those cells here new in box. Shipping may be pretty rough though the farther you are from the northeast. Don't suppose you have any good lines on shipping? Like have a friend with a high volume UPS or FedEx account?

 

[djdilliodon!]

Does it though? What's the cost and space equivalent of the same amount of energy storage in lithium batteries?


The math is 1 Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1V. When you series 2.7V cells you're not multiplying your 3000F rating you're dividing so your 5S bank is 600F

Now your 600F bank that you paid what 350$ for? is good for 200A for your 3 second burp.... but not really because the voltage drops almost immediately when you start discharging and you simply can't get anything like 100% of the charge out of that at a useful voltage so figure you'd need at least 2 of those banks to reliably burp a 2000W amp for exactly 3 seconds and not a millisecond more.

Furthermore, energy density on supercapacitor is 6-10WH/KG and 60-110WH/KG for Lithium Titanate, so it seems that you would need 10X the mass of supercapacitors to store the equivalent energy of LTO cells (AGM comes in at 30-50WH/KG). Or in short, they just don't store ****-all worth of energy for their cost/weight/volume.

What exactly are you trying to do with this build? If you can't articulate precisely what you think super-caps are going to accomplish for you, you probably have no business buying them.

i was talking about a ultra cap bank compared to batteries not Comparing to lithium banks.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Here's my jy hp40 hiding under my rear seats.

The rest of my electrical is a 320a Iraggi and a Napa agm under the hood.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

First link on Google for Maxwell bank is one for 280$ on Alibaba. I figured 350 would be about right after shipping if you weren't buying freight quantity, but OK, what's your price on them?

I have some YingLong 40AH cells I'm selling for 50 ea. 75ea is the high side, but compare cycle life to non Titanate flavor LiFePO and you're coming out way ahead in the long term. For what it's worth I don't think anything (especially shipping from China) is getting cheaper going forward so whichever way you go don't wait too long on this.

Quite a spread on the price of Headway cells. At 40 for an 8AH bank they would probably be worth buying at 80 not so much. (83WH/KG energy density on those which puts them about middle of the road for various flavors of LiFePO).

Do what you like, but do understand the actual energy stored in your supercapacitors and plan accordingly. This isn't a matter of "why do you need to get stupid loud", it's more like "why are you buying a 5500/F550 series pickup truck?" If you're looking to tow something big you're choosing the right vehicle, if you're looking to compete in a F1 race, not so much. Either way this **** isn't free so you had best to figure out what your electrical system needs to do, for how long, and manage your space/weight/budget optimally because you don't have unlimited of any of those things.


Lishen also has what 25C rating vs 10C for YingLong? For purpose of burst current the 18 Lishen should outperform the YingLong 40 at the expense of reserve. Personally I'd use 2 banks for what you're doing just to make sure they never operate above half their max C rating but you're certainly using either within their specified limits. What is your experience driving around or parked playing music with either? You have a voltage gauge?

I have a volt meter connected to my sub amp. I'll still drop to mid to low 12's on heavy bass songs. It only stays there for a split second and quickly bounces back to 14 - 14.4v. I think my problem is that my lithium is wired with my AGM so the resting voltage of the lithium is always going to be dragged down by the AGM. Is that a correct assumption? I metered last night and hit 148.6 @ 31hz.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I have a volt meter connected to my sub amp. I'll still drop to mid to low 12's on heavy bass songs. It only stays there for a split second and quickly bounces back to 14 - 14.4v. I think my problem is that my lithium is wired with my AGM so the resting voltage of the lithium is always going to be dragged down by the AGM. Is that a correct assumption? I metered last night and hit 148.6 @ 31hz.

I'd also suspect the AGM as your weak link. Any difference between the current lithium bank and the old one? Isn't that about the same number you did previously? Did you change anything? Off by a couple tenths once doesn't necessarily mean much, that can change literally with the weather.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

This is happening way downstream from the +12 going into the amp that's being pulsed and transformed up to the rail voltage and I can assure you that nothing you can do to the +12V line going into the amp will change that output waveform beyond giving it a slightly higher threshold before clipping.

This is getting into the realm of the fuckwits who buy 2000$ "power conditioners" for their home theaters and convince themselves that anything but a perfectly shaped 110V waveform going into the power supply is somehow going to improve the way their amp sounds.

Lol, I love the snake oil ****. But in all fairness, when driving an amp hard having a consistent input voltage is definitely eaiser on the amp. Capacitors are quite good at smoothing out the supply voltage, but they probably don't actually help in any meaningful way in normal daily usage.

Matt

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

I'd also suspect the AGM as your weak link. Any difference between the current lithium bank and the old one? Isn't that about the same number you did previously? Did you change anything? Off by a couple tenths once doesn't necessarily mean much, that can change literally with the weather.

I haven't changed anything else. We're thinking of putting a sixth cell in. I'm not sure how a battery delete works.

 

[KicktheSDbasshead]

Personally I haven't heard many good reasons to use supercaps as opposed to other options and with higher and higher C rating lithium cells coming along I feel they're becoming even more obsolete for our purposes unless you just don't have any limits on money or space or get a super deal on them somehow.

At some point you may just get tired of rebuilding all the time. It's nice to go through a season or two without having to do major overhauls or dump thousands of dollars extra.

I think I have like 72 of those cells here new in box. Shipping may be pretty rough though the farther you are from the northeast. Don't suppose you have any good lines on shipping? Like have a friend with a high volume UPS or FedEx account?

I'm down in San diego

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I'm down in San diego

I figure it would cost me around 3$ a pound or thereabouts to ship anything to you which would break around 6$ per cell I guess? I'd need a real street address to plug it into UPS or FedEx for a quote.

I haven't changed anything else. We're thinking of putting a sixth cell in. I'm not sure how a battery delete works.

So what difference if any between banks with your performance? Is that you're same number give or take a couple tenths?

I just cut a big block of wood to roughly the shape of a battery and bolted a couple distro blocks onto it to remove my primary batteries.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

I figure it would cost me around 3$ a pound or thereabouts to ship anything to you which would break around 6$ per cell I guess? I'd need a real street address to plug it into UPS or FedEx for a quote.


So what difference if any between banks with your performance? Is that you're same number give or take a couple tenths?

I just cut a big block of wood to roughly the shape of a battery and bolted a couple distro blocks onto it to remove my primary batteries.

The numbers are fairly close between the two banks. I just had to replace my back glass so that might be the cause of a lower db. My back glass seems to really flex now. I'm sure that if I did some sound deadening that it would help a bit. I have zero sound deadening at the moment. I would like to be in the 149's for some reason. 148.9 is such a tease.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The waveforms in the power supply can change sound, because your voltage rising and dropping and rising and dropping is a waveform, itself; it’s just not a sine wave, and input voltage matters. 12v isn’t 12v; 12v is 12v higher than the background voltage of your location in space.

If an AC powered amp isn’t drawing from DC power from somewhere else inside of the AC amp, and it’s not filtered out anywhere, then your AC power supply will pulsate your transistors (mosfets).

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

The waveforms in the power supply can change sound, because your voltage rising and dropping and rising and dropping is a waveform, itself; it’s just not a sine wave, and input voltage matters. 12v isn’t 12v; 12v is 12v higher than the background voltage of your location in space.

If an AC powered amp isn’t drawing from DC power from somewhere else inside of the AC amp, and it’s not filtered out anywhere, then your AC power supply will pulsate your transistors (mosfets).

I compete against people whose voltage never waivers while mine is all over the place (12v - 14.4v) and I still win. Explain that. Is it just because I have a **** ton of pressure? I'm curious now. You would probably **** on my box if I told you the specs.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The waveforms in the power supply can change sound, because your voltage rising and dropping and rising and dropping is a waveform, itself; it’s just not a sine wave, and input voltage matters. 12v isn’t 12v; 12v is 12v higher than the background voltage of your location in space.

If an AC powered amp isn’t drawing from DC power from somewhere else inside of the AC amp, and it’s not filtered out anywhere, then your AC power supply will pulsate your transistors (mosfets).

But a mosfet gate can also be triggered by a higher frequency and at an octave level that matches your waveform being amplified. Depends on the quality of the amp with how much waveform interference from the power supply makes it through the mosfets, I would bet.

Regardless, I would put caps in my system if I built one, like real cap banks, because the charging rate can keep the voltage at a more steady cycle than the sound you’re producing, so it can really help even out voltage (at least for music).

Your alternators pulsate DC, which is what phase they are, which is how many pulses they per do rotor rotation, iirc.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

But a mosfet gate can also be triggered by a higher frequency and at an octave level that matches your waveform being amplified. Depends on the quality of the amp with how much waveform interference from the power supply makes it through the mosfets, I would bet.

Regardless, I would put caps in my system if I built one, like real cap banks, because the charging rate can keep the voltage at a more steady cycle than the sound you’re producing, so it can really help even out voltage (at least for music).

Your alternators pulsate DC, which is what phase they are, which is how many pulses they per do rotor rotation, iirc.

I have no idea who you are talking to. If you want to call a truce then say truce in your next reply and I will stand down. No worries.