Electrical set ups If you got em show em!

mrj858

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Jun 21, 2011
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My current setup…2 370 amp alts ,260ah of LTO and 8banks of Maxwells
38663

38662
 

KicktheSDbasshead

2 builds 2 feet
Jan 20, 2022
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I’ve personally tested all scenarios….lithium and caps together works better then lithium alone…no battery has the discharge capabilities of caps…both together is magic
I really didn't want to "you into this conversation because I feel like I bugged you enough about Already that's why I didn't say anything but I know what I witnessed and that's why I was kind of like confused on what these guys were saying
 
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mrj858

Member
10+ year member
Jun 21, 2011
186
86
I really didn't want to "you into this conversation because I feel like I bugged you enough about Already that's why I didn't say anything but I know what I witnessed and that's why I was kind of like confused on what these guys were saying
No prob bro….I’ve always been the testing type…I don’t like going off of what I read or what someone else said etc… I’ve literally ran every combo Lol
 
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mrj858

Member
10+ year member
Jun 21, 2011
186
86
my favorite was 2 370 amps of alt…120ah of LTO and 14banks of Maxwells powering 2 big B2 ”16ks”
38679

38680

38681
 

metalheadjoe

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10+ year member
Oct 21, 2007
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No prob bro….I’ve always been the testing type…I don’t like going off of what I read or what someone else said etc… I’ve literally ran every combo Lol
After seeing your setup, I'll quietly show myself out.
 

hispls

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Hispls makes a valid point that adding more batteries can give you the extra juice you need but that comes at a higher cost and more room to give up.
Does it though? What's the cost and space equivalent of the same amount of energy storage in lithium batteries?
Do me favor. Hit me with hard core facts and good advice because it seems like you're ready to debate a concept I may not be well equipped for and instead of me going back and forth about my opinion just give me yours please. I'm more of a listener about things I don't know than a debater.
The math is 1 Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1V. When you series 2.7V cells you're not multiplying your 3000F rating you're dividing so your 5S bank is 600F

Now your 600F bank that you paid what 350$ for? is good for 200A for your 3 second burp.... but not really because the voltage drops almost immediately when you start discharging and you simply can't get anything like 100% of the charge out of that at a useful voltage so figure you'd need at least 2 of those banks to reliably burp a 2000W amp for exactly 3 seconds and not a millisecond more.

Furthermore, energy density on supercapacitor is 6-10WH/KG and 60-110WH/KG for Lithium Titanate, so it seems that you would need 10X the mass of supercapacitors to store the equivalent energy of LTO cells (AGM comes in at 30-50WH/KG). Or in short, they just don't store ****-all worth of energy for their cost/weight/volume.

What exactly are you trying to do with this build? If you can't articulate precisely what you think super-caps are going to accomplish for you, you probably have no business buying them.
 

Bobbytwonames

Trigger Man!
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Aug 28, 2018
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Does it though? What's the cost and space equivalent of the same amount of energy storage in lithium batteries?


The math is 1 Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1V. When you series 2.7V cells you're not multiplying your 3000F rating you're dividing so your 5S bank is 600F

Now your 600F bank that you paid what 350$ for? is good for 200A for your 3 second burp.... but not really because the voltage drops almost immediately when you start discharging and you simply can't get anything like 100% of the charge out of that at a useful voltage so figure you'd need at least 2 of those banks to reliably burp a 2000W amp for exactly 3 seconds and not a millisecond more.

Furthermore, energy density on supercapacitor is 6-10WH/KG and 60-110WH/KG for Lithium Titanate, so it seems that you would need 10X the mass of supercapacitors to store the equivalent energy of LTO cells (AGM comes in at 30-50WH/KG). Or in short, they just don't store ****-all worth of energy for their cost/weight/volume.

What exactly are you trying to do with this build? If you can't articulate precisely what you think super-caps are going to accomplish for you, you probably have no business buying them.
What if I'm trying to hit 31 hz. (peak) as hard as I can but I want to play music for demos? It's a 3,500 watt system (bass amp).
 

hispls

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What if I'm trying to hit 31 hz. (peak) as hard as I can but I want to play music for demos? It's a 3,500 watt system (bass amp).
1Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1 volt.

Let me ask, why did you ditch the Lishen bank? Those are a good bit higher C rating than Yinglong.
 

KicktheSDbasshead

2 builds 2 feet
Jan 20, 2022
381
201
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #41
Does it though? What's the cost and space equivalent of the same amount of energy storage in lithium batteries?


The math is 1 Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1V. When you series 2.7V cells you're not multiplying your 3000F rating you're dividing so your 5S bank is 600F

Now your 600F bank that you paid what 350$ for? is good for 200A for your 3 second burp.... but not really because the voltage drops almost immediately when you start discharging and you simply can't get anything like 100% of the charge out of that at a useful voltage so figure you'd need at least 2 of those banks to reliably burp a 2000W amp for exactly 3 seconds and not a millisecond more.

Furthermore, energy density on supercapacitor is 6-10WH/KG and 60-110WH/KG for Lithium Titanate, so it seems that you would need 10X the mass of supercapacitors to store the equivalent energy of LTO cells (AGM comes in at 30-50WH/KG). Or in short, they just don't store ****-all worth of energy for their cost/weight/volume.

What exactly are you trying to do with this build? If you can't articulate precisely what you think super-caps are going to accomplish for you, you probably have no business buying
Does it though? What's the cost and space equivalent of the same amount of energy storage in lithium batteries?


The math is 1 Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1V. When you series 2.7V cells you're not multiplying your 3000F rating you're dividing so your 5S bank is 600F

Now your 600F bank that you paid what 350$ for? is good for 200A for your 3 second burp.... but not really because the voltage drops almost immediately when you start discharging and you simply can't get anything like 100% of the charge out of that at a useful voltage so figure you'd need at least 2 of those banks to reliably burp a 2000W amp for exactly 3 seconds and not a millisecond more.

Furthermore, energy density on supercapacitor is 6-10WH/KG and 60-110WH/KG for Lithium Titanate, so it seems that you would need 10X the mass of supercapacitors to store the equivalent energy of LTO cells (AGM comes in at 30-50WH/KG). Or in short, they just don't store ****-all worth of energy for their cost/weight/volume.

What exactly are you trying to do with this build? If you can't articulate precisely what you think super-caps are going to accomplish for you, you probably have no business buying them.
Facts, numbers don't lie. Fact, I'm not running lto so the numbers don't exactly apply here, nor did I pay 350$ for a super cap. Lto costs about 450 or around 75$ a cell. 8 ah of headway runs anywhere from 40.00 to 80.00 shipped. Fact, none of has any business running any of this mess when we clearly know it will damage our ears in the future but we do it anyway. I greatly appreciate you giving me the facts that you have, but let's be honest people who really love this build mess up and build again, and if we didn't I'd still be running the audiobahns I bought in 2001.
 

KicktheSDbasshead

2 builds 2 feet
Jan 20, 2022
381
201
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  • #42
Facts, numbers don't lie. Fact, I'm not running lto so the numbers don't exactly apply here, nor did I pay 350$ for a super cap. Lto costs about 450 or around 75$ a cell. 8 ah of headway runs anywhere from 40.00 to 80.00 shipped. Fact, none of has any business running any of this mess when we clearly know it will damage our ears in the future but we do it anyway. I greatly appreciate you giving me the facts that you have, but let's be honest people who really love this build mess up and build again, and if we didn't I'd still be running the audiobahns I bought in 2001.
if you don't mind telling or showing us your electrical that would be cool and I would appreciate the knowledge of the actual application of the equipment.
 

Bobbytwonames

Trigger Man!
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Aug 28, 2018
12,589
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1Farad = 1 ampere for 1 second at 1 volt.

Let me ask, why did you ditch the Lishen bank? Those are a good bit higher C rating than Yinglong.
The Lishen was 18ah and the Yinglong was 40ah for 5s. Is that bad?
 

hispls

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Facts, numbers don't lie. Fact, I'm not running lto so the numbers don't exactly apply here, nor did I pay 350$ for a super cap. Lto costs about 450 or around 75$ a cell. 8 ah of headway runs anywhere from 40.00 to 80.00 shipped. Fact, none of has any business running any of this mess when we clearly know it will damage our ears in the future but we do it anyway. I greatly appreciate you giving me the facts that you have, but let's be honest people who really love this build mess up and build again, and if we didn't I'd still be running the audiobahns I bought in 2001.
First link on Google for Maxwell bank is one for 280$ on Alibaba. I figured 350 would be about right after shipping if you weren't buying freight quantity, but OK, what's your price on them?

I have some YingLong 40AH cells I'm selling for 50 ea. 75ea is the high side, but compare cycle life to non Titanate flavor LiFePO and you're coming out way ahead in the long term. For what it's worth I don't think anything (especially shipping from China) is getting cheaper going forward so whichever way you go don't wait too long on this.

Quite a spread on the price of Headway cells. At 40 for an 8AH bank they would probably be worth buying at 80 not so much. (83WH/KG energy density on those which puts them about middle of the road for various flavors of LiFePO).

Do what you like, but do understand the actual energy stored in your supercapacitors and plan accordingly. This isn't a matter of "why do you need to get stupid loud", it's more like "why are you buying a 5500/F550 series pickup truck?" If you're looking to tow something big you're choosing the right vehicle, if you're looking to compete in a F1 race, not so much. Either way this shit isn't free so you had best to figure out what your electrical system needs to do, for how long, and manage your space/weight/budget optimally because you don't have unlimited of any of those things.

The Lishen was 18ah and the Yinglong was 40ah for 5s. Is that bad?
Lishen also has what 25C rating vs 10C for YingLong? For purpose of burst current the 18 Lishen should outperform the YingLong 40 at the expense of reserve. Personally I'd use 2 banks for what you're doing just to make sure they never operate above half their max C rating but you're certainly using either within their specified limits. What is your experience driving around or parked playing music with either? You have a voltage gauge?
 
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hispls

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if you don't mind telling or showing us your electrical that would be cool and I would appreciate the knowledge of the actual application of the equipment.

Build log and some lithium discussion. We did 240AH YingLong banks for my brother's car and my Jeep. I use a HO alternator, he does not. He has a 4 foot long Korean half bridge and I'm currently running two Sundown SFB8Ks.

At some point I'll be bussing up some of the Toshiba 10AH cells for car audio purposes and do a build log on those. For now I've got a 5S bank in my 4 wheeler which has performed fantastic. If those only prove to be practical for powersports applications I won't have any buyers remorse there.
 

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