Adding Bass to factory Systems - I'm a noob

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

Would you expect a setup like I describe (two subs + amp) run into any power supply issues like needing a second battery or upgraded alternator?

Not at all. Today's ClassD amps are powermisers and have a small footprint. I was running an 1200 watts RMS ClassD amp in a stock 03 Grand Am GT. No issues. I even had a cheap $80 conventional battery in it which I could lift straight forward with one arm. Point being, it was a weak electrical and I had no issues.

 

[DJin TX]

I’ve been very focused on subs in this thread and just started thinking today that if I use the existing head unit in the existing factory speakers even if volumes are not an issue I’m wondering if I’m gonna be disappointed with the sound quality of the highs? I know the mids and lows are going to be great on the subs but are the highs just going to sound out of place compared to the bass?

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

disappointed with the sound quality of the highs?

Well, after adding a small sub system on a few exe's cars, that was the first thing they pointed out. To overcome the lack of sibilance, I would add a set of $5 tweeters on the sails. The details produced by these is quite pleasing. Now, these were added to stock systems, I think amplifying them would make them harsh.

 

[DJin TX]

Well, after adding a small sub system on a few exe's cars, that was the first thing they pointed out. To overcome the lack of sibilance, I would add a set of $5 tweeters on the sails. The details produced by these is quite pleasing. Now, these were added to stock systems, I think amplifying them would make them harsh.

So you’re suggesting adding a couple of small aftermarket tweeters that are better than oEM, not amplified just connected to factory head unit?

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

So you’re suggesting adding a couple of small aftermarket tweeters that are better than oEM, not amplified just connected to factory head unit?

Yes. They do look cheap, but the black ones much less.

I use the hole saw, pop them in from behind, voila. They look oem. They have different mounting options as well.

 

[DJin TX]

Yes. They do look cheap, but the black ones much less.
View attachment 28509
I use the hole saw, pop them in from behind, voila. They look oem. They have different mounting options as well.

My simple upgrade just keeps getting more layered. I won’t be doing this myself, will be having a local car audio dealer do the install. I really just wanted it to be simple. Plug in some amped subs and be done, but appears I may not be able to do that and still fully enjoy the result. I guess I can’t expect high end sound without paying for it

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

My simple upgrade just keeps getting more layered

Yeah, I actually chuckled when you posted about the tweeters. It is harder to quit upgrading when you learn to do your own installs. Nothing sounds as good as the system in your mind. If it grows too much, scrap all plans and toss in the biggest Bazookas you can fit back there.

 

[DJin TX]

Well, after adding a small sub system on a few exe's cars, that was the first thing they pointed out. To overcome the lack of sibilance, I would add a set of $5 tweeters on the sails. The details produced by these is quite pleasing. Now, these were added to stock systems, I think amplifying them would make them harsh.

I’ve been thinking about your response and have a question... how are some non-amplified $11 tweeters going to be any better than the stock speakers that come with a new vehicle?

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

I’ve been thinking about your response and have a question... how are some non-amplified $11 tweeters going to be any better than the stock speakers that come with a new vehicle?

It is not that they are better, but that they have a higher sensitivity (95-105 decibels). Whereas the OEMs I think have a sensitivity of maybe 89 decibels. They are not conventional tweeters (no magnet or voice coil). They are a metal disc with who knows what inside, that vibrate when powered. You have seen these in musical B-day cards. They just glue a cone to those, house them, voila. Piezoelectric tweeters. These are not replacement as much as a compliment to the existing tweeters.

 

[DJin TX]

It is not that they are better, but that they have a higher sensitivity (95-105 decibels). Whereas the OEMs I think have a sensitivity of maybe 89 decibels. They are not conventional tweeters (no magnet or voice coil). They are a metal disc with who knows what inside, that vibrate when powered. You have seen these in musical B-day cards. They just glue a cone to those, house them, voila. Piezoelectric tweeters. These are not replacement as much as a compliment to the existing tweeters.

I see, that makes sense

 

[DJin TX]

So what if I change the game plan a bit. Here are two ideas:

1. Instead of only planning to add subs and a mono block amp, what if I also added an amplifier to the stock speakers. Is this doable? And is it recommended?

2. what if I add the two 10 inch subs + 2 other after market speakers either component or coaxial (I have no idea the difference in these two types) and then either do a mono block amp for subs and a second amp for smaller speakers, or one 4 channel amp to run all 4 speakers.

would there be much difference in volume and sound quality between these to options?

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

would there be much difference in volume and sound quality between these to options?

I think the best economical improvement would be to change the speakers instead of adding an amp. You have already mentioned that you notice a lack in tweeter performace, so I think it best to start there. Haha, I said "start" there.The difference of coaxials and components is tweeter mounting location, better crossover (usually). Most coaxials do not come with a separate crossover. Since components cost more, most opt for coaxials in the back. As for brands, most recomnended on this site are JBL and Infinity. I think they are the same company, not sure. I cannot recommend any, for I am partial to old defunct brands, and have not followed up on any. I have used Dynaudio and Pioneer Carrozzeria, but cannot justify the price when I hear no difference between them and my a/d/s or Blues Audio (both defunct). So on that end, I would go by user reviews.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

So, the main issue I am running into is the lack of space in the truck for mounting regular depth subs.

Welcome to trying to put an audio system into a pickup truck.

"Space makes bass" and "there's no replacement for displacement" are two common themes we have in audio. This goes along with "Hoffman's Iron Law" which states you can have high efficiency, good low extension, or small space, but only two of these.

That said, almost every sub out there will be louder/deeper/more efficient if you can build bigger than "recommended" box size, but recommended should perform OK. Cone area is good, but what we are really after is displacement. A smaller cone with a longer stroke can move just as much air as a larger diameter cone with less excursion. Most importantly is that every woofer is different and they must be properly paired to an airspace that compliments their mechanical and electromagnetic specs. You can get the "best" woofer on the market and put it in the "wrong" box and it will perform poorly.'

The "shallow mount" woofers are definitely going to be excursion limited but may well get you buy. IF I were buying one today I'd be looking into the Dayton over to PartsExpress. Dayton stuff I've used in the past is good value and quality and they have honest published specs and reviews.

You must figure out PRECISELY how much net volume you will have to work with, paying careful attention to mounting depth and physical dimensions of the woofers you will consider then shop around that. Once you are there, decide what coil options you have (what your final impedance load will be) then plan an amp to properly feed them.

I've seen several good looking pickup truck boxes that go under the rear seats using multiple 6" or 8" woofers. They are sold for a steep price for the ones that look super nice but if you're handy with woodworking you could certainly DIY something to get the same job done.

I’ve been very focused on subs in this thread and just started thinking today that if I use the existing head unit in the existing factory speakers even if volumes are not an issue I’m wondering if I’m gonna be disappointed with the sound quality of the highs?

Very possibly. The idea of those cheap-o tweets seems like a reasonable gamble. If you """need""" more you can always replace/upgrade factory speakers and/or amp them down the road.

The s series 10 inch recommended box size says 0.58 cubic ft. Interestingly, the R series 10 inch also says box size of 0.58 cubic ft. Is this correct? Seems like R would need bigger? There is likely much I am misunderstanding

Type R lineup is all very nice. I've only heard type S components and wasn't terribly impressed, I'd have low expectations for the subs in that line and would avoid them provided you have the ability to mount the bigger subs.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

1. Instead of only planning to add subs and a mono block amp, what if I also added an amplifier to the stock speakers. Is this doable? And is it recommended?

No. Factory speakers are generally built to be very efficient up to the 10-12W that your factory head unit produces. They will likely fail extremely quickly if you add more power than intended.

Aftermarket speakers should be considered mandatory along with an amp if you need more output on your mids and highs.

 

[DJin TX]

I think the best economical improvement would be to change the speakers instead of adding an amp. You have already mentioned that you notice a lack in tweeter performace, so I think it best to start there. Haha, I said "start" there.The difference of coaxials and components is tweeter mounting location, better crossover (usually). Most coaxials do not come with a separate crossover. Since components cost more, most opt for coaxials in the back. As for brands, most recomnended on this site are JBL and Infinity. I think they are the same company, not sure. I cannot recommend any, for I am partial to old defunct brands, and have not followed up on any. I have used Dynaudio and Pioneer Carrozzeria, but cannot justify the price when I hear no difference between them and my a/d/s or Blues Audio (both defunct). So on that end, I would go by user reviews.

to clarify, I haven’t bought this truck yet, so no actual info yet on the performance of factory speakers. They may turn out fine I was just pondering that alongside some amplified and good-sounding subs they might seem underpowered and dwarfed by the subs making the treble retreat into the background. If I only hear the boom, but muffled lyrics and high frequencies, it won’t be well rounded. This of course may not even happen. Maybe the existing 4-6 oem speaker setup will be just fine along side the after market subs, I just wasn’t sure and wanted some input on that.