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Curious about mid-bass application.
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<blockquote data-quote="headless" data-source="post: 6501852" data-attributes="member: 566363"><p>Don't put midbass's behind you...then you have to pay for amplification of those channels, for those speakers, and you have to deaden those doors even more...and midbass's by definition will play directional sound that shouldn't come from behind you.</p><p></p><p>I really don't think you are going to need to mount a sub in your dashboard to be happy. How are your doors deadened currently? How much power is going to be available for your fronts if you get the BA's? Just a point of reference, when people sit in my car they tell me that the subs are totally nondirectional and actually ask more questions about my front speakers and why/how there is so much bass coming from up front than they ever do about the rear subs. Nowadays i'm using 80hz/18db slopes for my subs and fronts, so they aren't even really playing as low as they COULD - i used to run them at 63hz/24db until I got my subwoofer stage working out as I wanted. I use a little bit of time alignment to delay my fronts relative to my subs just slightly on my HU, but otherwise it's a pretty standard trunk setup.</p><p></p><p>This is because when you get things tuned correctly, all of the non-directional bass comes from the sub, and your front speakers can produce everything that is directional as loudly (or louder, with crossover) as your subs can. Consider that the power line CS's are 3.8 inches deep, though - they use the same baskets as the rainbow vanadium 7" subwoofers.</p><p></p><p>To get real clear response down to sub 70hz from your front doors you will need to deaden the crap out of them and start providing some beefy drivers (some BA drivers are pretty **** beefy, though i went with the rainbows //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif) a lot of power; i'm pushing ~350watts per side, though in music i'm sure they only hit that kind of power, or close to it, very rarely and for extremely short transients. Trying to push this kind of power to drivers that can really move will cause the average door to vibrate too much, so extreme deadening is essential.</p><p></p><p>Get enough power on the right drivers up front in well prepared doors, with a decent deck for processing, and you will not need subs in your front dash to sound like the bass is coming from there.</p><p></p><p>I was very skeptical about this kind of thing when I first got into audio - all of my setups had frequency response holes at some frequencies, either due to my fronts being insufficient for the job, or the sub being in a bad enclosure, etc. - or phasing issues, etc.... what bothered me the most would be techno tracks where a midbass sweep would extend well down into the sub-bass area, and i'd feel like I was hearing something passing me by, going from the front of the car to the back as the frequency lowered. When things are balanced correctly, volume is consistent across the entire sweep and the sub only becomes louder than the fronts after it hits non-directional frequencies, so you can't hear it 'move' as it lowers in frequency.</p><p></p><p>The next thing that makes the biggest difference is vibrations from your car. Cars are big ass tin cans that are not really sound deadened. Walk outside and tap your door with your finger - the whole thing will vibrate and 'twang'. Now consider that this door is your speaker enclosure. Not such a nice proposition.</p><p></p><p>If your front doors vibrate like a ***** when they play 80hz, but when the sub is playing 40hz they don't vibrate at all, then you will always know that 80hz is coming from them and 40hz is coming from the sub due to the vibration sounds. I took off every plastic panel, applied sound deadener to the back, then glued on sound damping foam that, when clipped back into place, was 'snug' against the foam. I removed the door panels (plastic) and coated the backs of them with several layers of deadening, and did the inside and outside surfaces of the metal of the door itself, along with all metal in the bottom of the trunk and rear deck area and trunk lid...and sides of the trunk...then I removed the rear 6x9's so there would be airflow that would minimize rear deck vibration, and took the rear deck particleboard/carpeted piece and deadened it and coated it with sound damping foam so it was also a 'pressure fit'. A properly deadening vehicle doesn't have localizable vibrations that can point to where the source of the sound is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="headless, post: 6501852, member: 566363"] Don't put midbass's behind you...then you have to pay for amplification of those channels, for those speakers, and you have to deaden those doors even more...and midbass's by definition will play directional sound that shouldn't come from behind you. I really don't think you are going to need to mount a sub in your dashboard to be happy. How are your doors deadened currently? How much power is going to be available for your fronts if you get the BA's? Just a point of reference, when people sit in my car they tell me that the subs are totally nondirectional and actually ask more questions about my front speakers and why/how there is so much bass coming from up front than they ever do about the rear subs. Nowadays i'm using 80hz/18db slopes for my subs and fronts, so they aren't even really playing as low as they COULD - i used to run them at 63hz/24db until I got my subwoofer stage working out as I wanted. I use a little bit of time alignment to delay my fronts relative to my subs just slightly on my HU, but otherwise it's a pretty standard trunk setup. This is because when you get things tuned correctly, all of the non-directional bass comes from the sub, and your front speakers can produce everything that is directional as loudly (or louder, with crossover) as your subs can. Consider that the power line CS's are 3.8 inches deep, though - they use the same baskets as the rainbow vanadium 7" subwoofers. To get real clear response down to sub 70hz from your front doors you will need to deaden the crap out of them and start providing some beefy drivers (some BA drivers are pretty **** beefy, though i went with the rainbows [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif[/IMG]) a lot of power; i'm pushing ~350watts per side, though in music i'm sure they only hit that kind of power, or close to it, very rarely and for extremely short transients. Trying to push this kind of power to drivers that can really move will cause the average door to vibrate too much, so extreme deadening is essential. Get enough power on the right drivers up front in well prepared doors, with a decent deck for processing, and you will not need subs in your front dash to sound like the bass is coming from there. I was very skeptical about this kind of thing when I first got into audio - all of my setups had frequency response holes at some frequencies, either due to my fronts being insufficient for the job, or the sub being in a bad enclosure, etc. - or phasing issues, etc.... what bothered me the most would be techno tracks where a midbass sweep would extend well down into the sub-bass area, and i'd feel like I was hearing something passing me by, going from the front of the car to the back as the frequency lowered. When things are balanced correctly, volume is consistent across the entire sweep and the sub only becomes louder than the fronts after it hits non-directional frequencies, so you can't hear it 'move' as it lowers in frequency. The next thing that makes the biggest difference is vibrations from your car. Cars are big ass tin cans that are not really sound deadened. Walk outside and tap your door with your finger - the whole thing will vibrate and 'twang'. Now consider that this door is your speaker enclosure. Not such a nice proposition. If your front doors vibrate like a ***** when they play 80hz, but when the sub is playing 40hz they don't vibrate at all, then you will always know that 80hz is coming from them and 40hz is coming from the sub due to the vibration sounds. I took off every plastic panel, applied sound deadener to the back, then glued on sound damping foam that, when clipped back into place, was 'snug' against the foam. I removed the door panels (plastic) and coated the backs of them with several layers of deadening, and did the inside and outside surfaces of the metal of the door itself, along with all metal in the bottom of the trunk and rear deck area and trunk lid...and sides of the trunk...then I removed the rear 6x9's so there would be airflow that would minimize rear deck vibration, and took the rear deck particleboard/carpeted piece and deadened it and coated it with sound damping foam so it was also a 'pressure fit'. A properly deadening vehicle doesn't have localizable vibrations that can point to where the source of the sound is. [/QUOTE]
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Curious about mid-bass application.
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