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Reload Thread: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    I know, but I can't see or hear anyone's systems on here and I want to listen to other systems to get new ideas and compare mine.







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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonM View Post
    I know, but I can't see or hear anyone's systems on here and I want to listen to other systems to get new ideas and compare mine.
    There is a lot of bassheads in Ohio and a lot in Michigan. A lot of shows around here too. Go to a show and get some demos




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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    1; yes x2

    the big three is a must-do for all installations, regardless of the current draw. this allows your current to have a larger path of least resistance to travel among the completed circuit in sustaining an even draw to and from all components either feeding or consuming current.

    a 99 camry stock alternator is 90 amp max for the 2.2l and 3.0l v6. well below the amount necessary to supply current to the stock electrical components needed to keep the car running, power the acoutriments, AND supply a heavy draw of 700 amps (orion recommended spec) to just a mono amplifier while also taking into account the two rear batts constantly needing to stay afloat after deep dwells. the ohio gen alternator's regulator was most likely not set correctly (too high), or the current draw it saw allowed it to kick up into the 18v range, idk tbh, never dealt with ohio gen.

    2; not likely. as already stated, that amplifier draws 700 amps. it will draw 700 amps at 2 ohm just as it will draw 700 amps at 1 ohm. halving the load resistance doubles the wattage, but amperage is a constant factor applied in this electrical formula.

    3; always. the best analogy i can use, as i have for many years now,... is drinking a milkshake. do you prefer the big dumb straws from burger king, or do you prefer using a straw from a capri sun pouch or coffee stir?

    there is no such thing as 'too much' when it comes to main power wiring in a dc circuit... not imo.


    i believe what is happening when you have the big three connected, is you are allowing the batteries in back to charge just that much quicker (greater path of least resistance to the alt/front batt) after the amp has been relying on them to supply the bulk of the current during extended play at high volume, probably in the 12v range, which is why you havent smoked the amp yet. without the big three, it seems your batts in back are being taxed first and your power circuit supplying them is not allowing them to regain full capacity, thus slowly feeding off the front batt and alternator as a crutch with such a minimal ground.



    i think im gonna go sit on the toilet and take a big papermaker where it belongs.

    D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.?


  4. #49
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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by honkyg View Post
    1; yes x2

    the big three is a must-do for all installations, regardless of the current draw. this allows your current to have a larger path of least resistance to travel among the completed circuit in sustaining an even draw to and from all components either feeding or consuming current.

    a 99 camry stock alternator is 90 amp max for the 2.2l and 3.0l v6. well below the amount necessary to supply current to the stock electrical components needed to keep the car running, power the acoutriments, AND supply a heavy draw of 700 amps (orion recommended spec) to just a mono amplifier while also taking into account the two rear batts constantly needing to stay afloat after deep dwells. the ohio gen alternator's regulator was most likely not set correctly (too high), or the current draw it saw allowed it to kick up into the 18v range, idk tbh, never dealt with ohio gen.

    2; not likely. as already stated, that amplifier draws 700 amps. it will draw 700 amps at 2 ohm just as it will draw 700 amps at 1 ohm. halving the load resistance doubles the wattage, but amperage is a constant factor applied in this electrical formula.

    3; always. the best analogy i can use, as i have for many years now,... is drinking a milkshake. do you prefer the big dumb straws from burger king, or do you prefer using a straw from a capri sun pouch or coffee stir?

    there is no such thing as 'too much' when it comes to main power wiring in a dc circuit... not imo.


    i believe what is happening when you have the big three connected, is you are allowing the batteries in back to charge just that much quicker (greater path of least resistance to the alt/front batt) after the amp has been relying on them to supply the bulk of the current during extended play at high volume, probably in the 12v range, which is why you havent smoked the amp yet. without the big three, it seems your batts in back are being taxed first and your power circuit supplying them is not allowing them to regain full capacity, thus slowly feeding off the front batt and alternator as a crutch with such a minimal ground.
    2. No it won't. Less power requires less amperage. And higher efficiency.



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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LosIsATool View Post
    2. No it won't. Less power requires less amperage. And higher efficiency.
    huh?

    ohms law doesnt change, bro.

    14.4vdc x 700a x 1 ohm = 10080watts x .8 (typical class d 80% efficiency) ~8065w~ but we'll just go with a nice rounded 8k

    rail volt-amperes needed;

    square root of: power (watt) multiplied by resistance (ohm)

    2000 x 4 = 8000
    4000 x 2 = 8000
    8000 x 1 = 8000

    sq rt of 8000 = 89.4427va

    this is the rail volt-amperes needed to sustain 8000w at 1 ohm driven cleanly, or 4k @ 2, 2k @4,.. etc, etc.

    the rail va remains constant regardless of load resistance, thus, the current needed to supply said volt-amperes from the dc input will also remain constant unless dc input voltage or gain changes. more input voltage applied requires less current to attain rail voltage and just the inverse. lessening the gain will require less current as you are dropping the output power.



    i think im gonna go sit on the toilet and take a big papermaker where it belongs.

    D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.?


  6. #51
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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by honkyg View Post
    huh?

    ohms law doesnt change, bro.

    14.4vdc x 700a x 1 ohm = 10080watts x .8 (typical class d 80% efficiency) ~8065w~ but we'll just go with a nice rounded 8k

    rail volt-amperes needed;

    square root of: power (watt) multiplied by resistance (ohm)

    2000 x 4 = 8000
    4000 x 2 = 8000
    8000 x 1 = 8000

    sq rt of 8000 = 89.4427va

    this is the rail volt-amperes needed to sustain 8000w at 1 ohm driven cleanly, or 4k @ 2, 2k @4,.. etc, etc.

    the rail va remains constant regardless of load resistance, thus, the current needed to supply said volt-amperes from the dc input will also remain constant unless dc input voltage or gain changes. more input voltage applied requires less current to attain rail voltage and just the inverse. lessening the gain will require less current as you are dropping the output power.
    A 8k at 1ohm is not a 8k at 2ohm.



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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LosIsATool View Post
    A 8k at 1ohm is not a 8k at 2ohm.
    I think what he's saying is 8k at 1 ohm has the same resistance as 4K at 2 ohm. So 4K at 2 ohm the resistance is twice that of 8k at 1 ohm, but because it's half the wattage of the 8k the resistance is the same as the 8k so the draw on the electrical is going to be the same.




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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LosIsATool View Post
    A 8k at 1ohm is not a 8k at 2ohm.
    JL Audio has their amps as so. Any impedance, same wattage. Which I don't like.



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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by honkyg View Post
    1; yes x2

    the big three is a must-do for all installations, regardless of the current draw. this allows your current to have a larger path of least resistance to travel among the completed circuit in sustaining an even draw to and from all components either feeding or consuming current.

    a 99 camry stock alternator is 90 amp max for the 2.2l and 3.0l v6. well below the amount necessary to supply current to the stock electrical components needed to keep the car running, power the acoutriments, AND supply a heavy draw of 700 amps (orion recommended spec) to just a mono amplifier while also taking into account the two rear batts constantly needing to stay afloat after deep dwells. the ohio gen alternator's regulator was most likely not set correctly (too high), or the current draw it saw allowed it to kick up into the 18v range, idk tbh, never dealt with ohio gen.

    2; not likely. as already stated, that amplifier draws 700 amps. it will draw 700 amps at 2 ohm just as it will draw 700 amps at 1 ohm. halving the load resistance doubles the wattage, but amperage is a constant factor applied in this electrical formula.

    3; always. the best analogy i can use, as i have for many years now,... is drinking a milkshake. do you prefer the big dumb straws from burger king, or do you prefer using a straw from a capri sun pouch or coffee stir?

    there is no such thing as 'too much' when it comes to main power wiring in a dc circuit... not imo.


    i believe what is happening when you have the big three connected, is you are allowing the batteries in back to charge just that much quicker (greater path of least resistance to the alt/front batt) after the amp has been relying on them to supply the bulk of the current during extended play at high volume, probably in the 12v range, which is why you havent smoked the amp yet. without the big three, it seems your batts in back are being taxed first and your power circuit supplying them is not allowing them to regain full capacity, thus slowly feeding off the front batt and alternator as a crutch with such a minimal ground.
    Thanks man, this helps out a lot! I had no idea what the draw was. My idea was to play the stereo off the batteries. I thought I'd be good since I don't turn it up loud for long periods of time. I was going to use the voltmeter as a gauge to know when to shut the subs off(below 11.5), and let the batteries charge back up. The batteries combined have 210 amp hours and a total of 10,000 amps with an additional 90 AH from the alt for a total of 310 AH. Why wont this work for running a 5k system? (I've got an audiopipe 2k amp for mids and highs which is really 100watts x4)




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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomin_tahoe View Post
    JL Audio has their amps as so. Any impedance, same wattage. Which I don't like.
    Yes I've had a few. They are tightly regulated. But ******* current hogs



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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonM View Post
    I think what he's saying is 8k at 1 ohm has the same resistance as 4K at 2 ohm. So 4K at 2 ohm the resistance is twice that of 8k at 1 ohm, but because it's half the wattage of the 8k the resistance is the same as the 8k so the draw on the electrical is going to be the same.
    Lol what?
    No. 8k at whatever ohm will need roughly 800 amps of current
    4K at whatever ohm will need roughly 400 amps of current.



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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LosIsATool View Post
    Lol what?
    No. 8k at whatever ohm will need roughly 800 amps of current
    4K at whatever ohm will need roughly 400 amps of current.
    But ohms = resistance, the higher the resistance, the harder its going to be for the amp to draw the power




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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonM View Post
    But ohms = resistance, the higher the resistance, the harder its going to be for the amp to draw the power

    Firstly, a rough estimate is 100a of current draw for every 1k in power. Obviously this doesn't factor in loss/heat etc.

    It's MUCH more efficient for an amp to run at say 4ohm than it is at 1ohm because of resistance.

    An 8k amp @ 1ohm is going to pull far more amperes than an 8k amp @ 4ohm. It is NOT the same, that is completely inaccurate.

    Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMBV0dVAtUo

    In this dyno, you can see at 4ohm the amp pulls 150a of current and at 1ohm it draws 389a of current.




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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by cfox10 View Post
    Firstly, a rough estimate is 100a of current draw for every 1k in power. Obviously this doesn't factor in loss/heat etc.

    It's MUCH more efficient for an amp to run at say 4ohm than it is at 1ohm because of resistance.

    An 8k amp @ 1ohm is going to pull far more amperes than an 8k amp @ 4ohm. It is NOT the same, that is completely inaccurate.

    Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMBV0dVAtUo

    In this dyno, you can see at 4ohm the amp pulls 150a of current and at 1ohm it draws 389a of current.
    But is that because 8k amp at 4 ohms is really a 2k amp



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    Re: Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaseinBass View Post
    But is that because 8k amp at 4 ohms is really a 2k amp
    higher ohm rating = less heat
    Less heat = better efficiency

    The lower the ohm rating the dirtier the amperage flow gets so it pulls more current to compensate for the loss of amperage in the current.

    The better efficiency (higher ohm) has less amperage loss making no need to pull more the needed.

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