Closed Thread
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Reload Thread: Caps are ghey

  1. #1
    namster44's Avatar
    namster44 is offline Great White North



    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    646
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Caps are ghey

    Do you guys remember where the article/experiment with the caps is? I can't find it, I search so freaking long, that I hoped someone would have bookmarked it. It's the one with charts saying there's not significant advantage using a cap. Heck, any article saying caps are bad, would help, I'm trying to teach some nublets.



    This years line up.....

    *eD, Tsunami, CDT, Alpine, EFX wiring/block/fuses*




  2. #2
    maylar's Avatar
    maylar is offline Electrical Weenie



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,444
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey




    dave
    ----------
    1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
    Head Unit: JVC KWHDR720
    EQ: Audiocontrol EQL
    Front Stage: Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine 5.25 mids, Morel Maximo tweets
    Sub Stage: Boston G3 10", 0.5 cu ft sealed
    Amp: PPI Phantom 900.4
    Rear Fill: Boston SE953 6X9's

  3. #3
    namster44's Avatar
    namster44 is offline Great White North

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    646
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    you sir are the man. I knew you of all ppl would keep this handy.



    This years line up.....

    *eD, Tsunami, CDT, Alpine, EFX wiring/block/fuses*

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Brockton MA
    Age
    29
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    wow thats crazy. The caps actually hurt the system.... :thumbsdow




  5. #5
    bigwheel15's Avatar
    bigwheel15 is offline Ooh Yeah!!



    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth,Texas
    Age
    26
    Posts
    3,767
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    **** caps, allways causing trouble.




  6. #6
    helotaxi's Avatar
    helotaxi is offline Kilroy was Here



    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    South Central (New Mexico that is...)
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseMarysBaby
    wow thats crazy. The caps actually hurt the system.... :thumbsdow
    Sure it would. If you cannot keep from dipping into the battery (the battery may not fully discharge but it will be getting partially discharged and recharged) then adding a cap will not help and will actually hurt. He's running 2000W off a 80A alt and running the amp to clipping. The test would be a lot more valid in my eyes if he either 1) run an alt comensurate with the size amp he was running if he was going to run it at full power for an extended time or 2) ran an amp that was more reasonably sized or 3) played the volume at a listenable level. Under one of those above conditions I might consider this a valid test, and I've a feeling that the results might be a bit different. All the "test" in that link showed was that a heavily taxed charging system will not benefit from a cap (duh) but when you then make the blanket statement that caps are not ever going to help based on that one test that's just stupid.



    Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Life's tough...it's even tougher when you're stupid.

  7. #7
    gregus's Avatar
    gregus is offline Junior Member



    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    norway
    Age
    33
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    Lol, saying caps don't help is just plain redicolous!!! Of course they help! They are much closer to your amp than the battery, and they deliver power alot quicker than the battery does, even alot quicker than the battery would if it was real close to your amp! I've tried my system with and without a cap, and if u have a high-powered amp that requires alot of power, you'll definitely benefit from the use of a cap! No doubt whatsoever!!!




  8. #8
    Radar's Avatar
    Radar is offline Old balls



    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    ^^^
    What is ridiculous is your statement. You provide no real scientific evidence to back up what you said. Closeness from the amp to the battery doesnt mean crap. Over a huge distance of say hundreds of yards or miles yeah maybe, but within the space of a car it doesnt mean anything. Just because you 'tried' your system with and without a cap doesnt mean crap. What did you 'try'?There is no actual way you would be able to tell an audible difference between the 2. It may have helped stopped your dimming, but it only just covered it up not fixthe problem underneath it.




  9. #9
    helotaxi's Avatar
    helotaxi is offline Kilroy was Here



    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    South Central (New Mexico that is...)
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac
    It does discharge quicker than a battery, however it fully discharges in a very short time so any prolonged bass notes (i.e. most modern music, especially rap) is going to cause the voltage to drop more than if there were no cap at all
    Not entirely accurate. As long as there is another device (battery mostly) providing current to the mix, a cap will never FULLY discharge. It will discharge to the voltage level of the battery but that is really only a fraction of the total carge on the cap. Once it has discharged, it must be recharged and the recharge will keep the voltage from returning to its maximum for the short time it takes the cap to recharge.

    The proper use of a STIFFENING cap is to provide near instantaneous current for the brief period of time (tiny fraction of a second) when the current demand of the amps changes from a low demand to a high demand when the alternator can provide enough current for the higher demand but the ESR of the alt keeps it from doing so quickly enough. During the brief instant that it takes for the alt to up the current it is providing, the cap gives up some of its charge to fill the void. Another use for a cap is to provide current for transients during very dynamic music where the alt can more than keep up with the average current demand, but the quick transients are a bit too much. The cap can soften the blow to the alt and keep the system going without the alt ever having to provide its maximum current even though the current demanded was for a very brief instant more than the alt could provide. Once the transient is over, the alt provides the extra current above the amp demands to recharge the cap but it never approaches its maximum current production. This is the explanation for the people who installed a cap and it stopped their lights from dimming. Note also that this only works when the transients are very quick (rock music with the quick drum hits, not rap or other such with the long drawn out bass notes). The cap acts as a shock absorber to keep the full demand of the system from reaching the alt all at once. It spreads the demand out over a few seconds and provides some breathing room for the alt.

    The thing that most poeple fail to realize is that a cap is not a fix to a problem. It is a slight improvement to a charging system that can already handle the load placed on it. It will not fix anything, but once the real fixes are in place it can help to prolong the life of your alternator and your amps by reducing the duty cycle on both.



    Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Life's tough...it's even tougher when you're stupid.

  10. #10
    helotaxi's Avatar
    helotaxi is offline Kilroy was Here



    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    South Central (New Mexico that is...)
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac
    So basically a more accurate, more in-depth explanation of what I tried to say
    Basically...



    Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Life's tough...it's even tougher when you're stupid.

  11. #11
    Ricktc's Avatar
    Ricktc is offline Livin' Loud



    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    OK guys, so should I think about investing in a cap? Soon to have an optima Yellow Top, but should i think about a cap to help out with burps while the car is not running?



    Proud Member of Team Gates

    1998 Saturn SL1

    Pioneer DEH-P4600MP - Crossfire VR2000D - Kicker L5s

    150.8 New AudioControl - 152.3 Classic TermLab - 147.3 New Termlab

    2004 Western Canadian dBDrag Street B Champion

  12. #12
    helotaxi's Avatar
    helotaxi is offline Kilroy was Here



    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    South Central (New Mexico that is...)
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    Ricktc- No. No. And, ummmm, NO!!! Caps are of zero, zilch, nada benefit with the car off.



    Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Life's tough...it's even tougher when you're stupid.

  13. #13
    maylar's Avatar
    maylar is offline Electrical Weenie



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,444
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)

    Re: Caps are ghey

    Caps don't "hurt" anything. They are simply storage devices.

    A perfect capacitor would add no additional stress to a charging system at all. Whatever energy the cap delivered during discharge would have to be replenished by the alternator, but it's no more energy than the alternator would have to deliver by itself if the cap wasn't there.

    Of course there's no such thing as a perfect cap. They have losses, so the recharge energy is always higher than the discharge energy. So it stands to reason that they add additional load to the system.

    However... really low ESR caps are very efficient. The benifits of having a high current localized source close to the amplifier could justify the little extra load that they create, under certain conditions.

    It really depends on the music you listen to. If your music has bass notes that last long enough to discharge the cap (down to battery level, as helo pointed out), a cap will get you absolutely no benefit.
    Last edited by maylar; 06-07-2004 at 01:54 PM. Reason: spelling



    dave
    ----------
    1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
    Head Unit: JVC KWHDR720
    EQ: Audiocontrol EQL
    Front Stage: Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine 5.25 mids, Morel Maximo tweets
    Sub Stage: Boston G3 10", 0.5 cu ft sealed
    Amp: PPI Phantom 900.4
    Rear Fill: Boston SE953 6X9's

Closed Thread

Similar Threads

  1. connecting 2 caps
    By Sleeklsc in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-09-2004, 01:49 AM
  2. Little help with caps please
    By 1BadHawk in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-07-2004, 10:19 PM
  3. Idea for caps.
    By Silica in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-11-2003, 02:08 PM
  4. question about caps
    By djlosch in forum Wiring, Electrical and Installation Help
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-27-2003, 02:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
1e2 Forum