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    Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats next

    Ok, so pretty much what is in my signature sums up everything I have purchased so far for my 1st every sound system. I'm not sure what to buy next really. People have been saying amp kits, wiring, RCA's, but I'm unsure of what I need or should buy for good SQ.

    I apologize, but this is the first sound system I'll ever be building and the only references I have is the internet, because my friends sound system sound awful, and I really do not feel like asking them.

    So please, any links with in depth info on wiring or explanations on what I should buy next. & links to what I should buy and why

    I'm already considering some deadener and I have an old Pioneer two channel amp for the speakers up front. It's just wiring pretty much I need and supplies to do the BIG 3 upgrade aswell.



    AztecPenguinMex
    aka
    HifiPenguin

    not completely sure what i'm doing, but so far....
    Honda Passport: 2000
    Pioneer 80 PRS
    Polk MM6501
    Polk SR124 12" Sub
    Hifonics BXI 1205D AMP




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Where should I start ok first off hit up @mylows10 hes got the great prices on amp kits and big 3 kits as well youll need one run of 4gauge from the battery to a distribution block in the back then you can split and use 8 gauge for your pioneer and 6 gauge for your hifonics , youll be good , first problem your honda only has a 60 amp alternator in it your looking to run two amps one rated at 80 amps(hifonics) and the other between 20-60 amps(pioneer) idk for sure dont know the model number anyway youll need to upgrade your alternator to a high output between 170-200 amp should work well for your aplication this way if you ever wanna run more subs (which will use more amperage out of your amp) youll already be good and since this is your first setup I know youll upgrade one day , or someone will hate and steal it not to wish that on you but it happens , youll also need an agm/deep cycle battery it will take abuse a starter battery cant , without these a big 3 aint shi+ to help your car because either way youll strain your batt and alt until there done which wont last long , I really hope your sub is a svc subwoofer or you have a digital multimeter because 900 rms is too much for that sub unless you use a meter and set the voltage to 700 rms @ 2 ohms if its a svc your good itll run 450 rms @ 4ohms a good amount of bass for a starter but I know youll wanna go louder lets see ill send you a few links to watch to learn a little more because youll need the knowledge so you dont fu;,,; up the first time which eventually you will being as excited as you will be but if you take precautions you should be good , if your dont understand how to do it after that take it to a professional




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Disregard the alt and wiring.

    You don't NEED a HO alt for under 1500w, just don't play full tilt at idle for long periods of time. A secondary battery (such as a kinetic, shuriken, etc.) near the amp and big 3 will suffice. Now if you plan on upgrading to 1600w-2k in the near future, you will need an alt.

    Run 4 gauge or 0 gauge wire, don't run 6 gauge to a 1200w amp...

    I would get a second sub as well, make sure the impedance matches the one you already have. Or like he said ^^ too much power to one sub. If it is a Dual 4 ohm, you could get away with that amp at 2 ohm, just read a gain setting tutorial.

    READ READ RESEARCH READ!!



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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    6 gauge is fine hes only drawing 80 amps current thats what they make fuses for to protect the wire behind it if he runs one run 4 gauge strait to the back and distributes it into 6 and 8 gauge hes good of course dont skimp and buy cheap wires its a fail knu concepts has great kits and so does mylows10 hes got sky high wires which is why again hell be good ,at tops and thats @1 ohm which hes only gonna run @4 two he will need to upgrade the alt the 80 amp hifonics amp exceeds his 60 amp alternator plus his amp for the highs which will most likely draw 3/4 current if not all of what its rated on top of his car asking 50-60% of what the alternator is rated needing its consumptions and battery needing to recharge where did you learn to install, the big 3 will do nothing for him if he doesnt have the power to supply the amps and car needs his lights will still dim and it will still strain his stock alternator and starter battery , I have a 105amp stock in my car and a 140amp hifonics I went through an alternator 2 starter batts and a kinetick 1400 just so I could blow the stock and upgrade my alt I went to the top college in the us for this I know what im talking about , dont upgrade and see how in a few months youll be wishing you bought that high output sooner, plus if he does want to upgrade his system which he will all hell have to do is buy new subs , and amps its just logical , common sence , everyone has there opinion ill go by the books one thing you said right is study and that you should do , everyone thinks im running 1000 plus rms I need all 0 guage lmao thats where your wrong wires are rated for amps not watts goofy a 6 gauge wire can hold 80 amps all day 4 gauge 150 amps 2 gauge 200 amps + and 0 gauge up to 350 amps tops study thats why awg makes a rating system lol so you dont spe/d money on unneccesary shi+ but most do just to say I have 0 gauge lol and how can you tell him jump from 4 gauge to 0 what happend to 2 gauge before spending 3 dollars a ft of 0 I guess you live and you learn right
    Last edited by Nutdawg651; 08-15-2013 at 07:55 AM.




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    I wouldnt buy a ho alt until you were sure you needed it. I'm running aclarion apa 4203, and a crossfire xp2400 pushing about 1300 watts together on my stock 70 amp alt/batt. Not saying they are a bad idea or anything, but id finish my install before getting another alt.



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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Thats an issue when one day your stock alt puts out low output and your battery is the onlything running you car and system and you go to start your car for work lol and your car wont start but hey every car has different power consumptions , and some amps are more and less efficient , the lsser the more currnt draw like I said everyone has there own opinion im gonna go by the books and always be safe than sorry, and yeah id run all my lines and place everything bump for a few weeks but be saving for that alt , hes a beginner hes gonna wanna go bigger try new amps and subs , decks we've all done it just wait til hi gets enthused its a wrap




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutdawg651 View Post
    Thats an issue when one day your stock alt puts out low output and your battery is the onlything running you car and system and you go to start your car for work lol and your car wont start but hey every car has different power consumptions , and some amps are more and less efficient , the lsser the more currnt draw like I said everyone has there own opinion im gonna go by the books and always be safe than sorry, and yeah id run all my lines and place everything bump for a few weeks but be saving for that alt , hes a beginner hes gonna wanna go bigger try new amps and subs , decks we've all done it just wait til hi gets enthused its a wrap
    Oh man...

    Ok, here goes. if he does the big three and runs 0 gauge there will be less voltage drop which is what kills batts, alts, amps, etc. might as well do it once and do it right. Thats what killed your amp, alt, and battery or whatever the hell you said broke. I bet full tilt at idle is what did it too. I learned to install from hours and hours of research and personal experience. I've worked in a couple high end shops too bro... I dont know it all but I know quite a bit. And i bet he will be just fine without an alt if he watches his voltage. Also the batteries i recommend are quick charge/discharge.



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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutdawg651 View Post
    Thats an issue when one day your stock alt puts out low output and your battery is the onlything running you car and system and you go to start your car for work lol and your car wont start but hey every car has different power consumptions , and some amps are more and less efficient , the lsser the more currnt draw like I said everyone has there own opinion im gonna go by the books and always be safe than sorry, and yeah id run all my lines and place everything bump for a few weeks but be saving for that alt , hes a beginner hes gonna wanna go bigger try new amps and subs , decks we've all done it just wait til hi gets enthused its a wrap
    STFU noob... Seriously. Read a lot more and make suggestions a lot less.




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutdawg651 View Post
    I have a 105amp stock in my car and a 140amp hifonics I went through an alternator 2 starter batts and a kinetick 1400 just so I could blow the stock and upgrade my alt I went to the top college in the us for this I know what im talking about ,
    Top college, and you cannot form a sentence. Bravo, kid.



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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    For good reading about all things car audio, I recommend the12volt.com There is everything there from how to build a box to why you need the big three.

    The sub and amp you have are a great match. With the sub wired in parallel at 2Ω, the amp is supposed to do 900 watts and your woofer is rated at 700 watts. I recommend building or having built, a ported enclosure that's designed for that driver, tuned somewhere around 36hz.

    As for wire size, I would argue that 1/0 the first time is your best bet. At the least, 2 gauge. The wire and electrical system are the foundation of any audio system and you wouldn't build your house on a poor foundation so it stands to reason that you wouldn't build a sound system on one either. Overbuilding (using 1/0) will ensure that your amp runs as cool as possible and that it produces as much power as it possible can, without strain. This translates to a longer lifespan for your amp(s) and speakers. CCA (copper clad aluminum) is less expensive than OFC (oxygen free copper) and as long as you aren't chasing tenths of a dB in competitions, it is more than ample. Where CCA falls short is that it carries 15-25% less current than pure copper and that number increases with heat. However, to reiterate... if you aren't chasing points, it's not big on the "bang per buck" scale. Another thing to be sure of is that you use good quality ANL fuses on the power wire and don't use a breaker. Breakers don't trip as quickly as fuses in low resistant short scenarios and as such, present a danger to the electrical system and amplifiers. Lastly, make sure that ALL of your system grounds are made to bare metal and that they are tight and protected from corrosion. A simple coating with cheap spray paint or, even better, undercoating like Flex Seal or Plasti Dip works great.
    For now, an AGM battery under the hood is a good idea and eventually, you'll want to upgrade the alternator but that's not necessary with the power you're running, provided that you do the big three and use good wire. Another good upgrade is a battery or capacitor near the amplifiers. You want ~100 amp hours of battery for every 1000 watts of power and dollar for dollar, a small AGM battery that costs the same as a capacitor is, in my opinion, a better solution. Caps can provide short bursts of current but they do not store enough current to provide sustained help to the electrical system.
    The last consideration with respect to providing enough power is speaker wire. Again, bigger is always better so don't cut corners here. For the system you have, I would run 10 gauge speaker wire to the sub or, two runs of 12. For the mids and highs and since I don't know the power of that amp, run at least 16 gauge. Since you probably don't have a warehouse full of different wire sizes laying around your house, I would recommend buying a spool of 12 gauge that can be used for all your speakers. A 50' spool isn't very expensive and again here, you can use CCA. Just keep in mind that when you buy any wire, especially car audio wire, there are more than one wire sizing standards in the world and a lot of the wire that comes from Asia is rated differently. So if you're buying wire that doesn't specify "true AWG" or "American AWG", it will be slightly smaller. For instance, 10 gauge Chinese wire will be equivalent to 12 gauge American AWG wire. Most people believe this to be a deceptive practice and in some cases it is. But doing some due diligence is your responsibility so if you see some wire that's 50% less expensive than other wires of that same gauge... assume it's rated with the smaller standard and adjust your sizing accordingly.
    For patch cables (RCAs), use decent quality cables but not the cheapest you can find. Signal cables are very important but trust me, I used to sell XLO Electric's cables in home theater and there is for sure a point where the expense of a cable is not justifiable because the improvements it makes are not audible. Fifty to seventy five cents per foot for patch cables will get you good quality signal wires.

    Now that you have a great foundation upon which to build a great sounding system... deadener. I would recommend it for the doors and trunk/hatch. But, I wouldn't recommend it as a first priority, especially if you're on a tight budget and are doing the install yourself. For the power you're running, you are better off to get the system built and then go to chasing rattles. With all the window up, turn the system up to high volume and start walking around the car listening for unpleasant noises. When you find you can fix em. Also for a tight budget, undercoating or Flex Seal is a good deadener, just make sure you don't get overspray on things you don't want painted. Plasti Dip also claims sound deadening qualities and while I have used it, I haven't used it to deaden panels so I can't speak to it's effectiveness. That said, it's a rubberized coating so I'm sure it has some ability to deaden.

    Lastly, gain setting. This is perhaps the most critical part of building a loud, clean sound system as opposed to a voice coil cooking machine. The gain settings on your amplifiers are not there to set the volume of the system. The volume you'll get out of the system is determined by equipment, installation, vehicle acoustics and the source you're using. It is pretty much pre determined by those things and cannot be boosted with a gain knob. What gain knobs are for is matching your amplifier's input sensitivity to your source's output voltage. If your head unit provides 2 volts of line level signal and the amp is set to produce maximum power at 2 volts, the system will be just as loud as if the head unit produced 4 volts of line level signal, provided the amp is set accordingly. Too high a gain setting introduces distortion, which causes amplifier strain and overheating of the motors in your speakers.
    If you have a DMM (multimeter) there is a procedure that can be followed which will help you get the gains set "pretty close" and to be sure, safe, if you are methodical and set the gains just shy of where that procedure would have you set them. DMMs can be had on the cheap but they aren't the best method. The best method is to use an oscilloscope or a DD-1 distortion detector but, those devices are close to or over $200.00, where a cheap DMM can be bought for a tenth of that price.
    Your best bet is to find someone with a scope or a DD-1 who will set them for you, if you're not comfortable with the DMM method. If you were in my town, I would be happy to do it and perhaps there is someone in your area who would be too. If not, call around to some shops and ask how they set gains. If they say by ear... call the next shop. You can probably get them set at a shop for $20-40.00. Some shops may charge a one hour minimum and shop rates are sometimes as high as $75.00 per hour or more. Personally, I wouldn't trade with a shop like that because the gain setting procedure is a ten minute ordeal at the most, in most systems.

    I hope that helps and, good luck!




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Here you go read my guys page and learn some shi+ read the tab on chrging system basics then when your done click the upgrades section maybe itll help you out

    http://bcae1.com/ , tab numer 42 u guys are idiots lmfao tryna flame me you better learn more first




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Quote Originally Posted by bbeljefe View Post
    For good reading about all things car audio, I recommend the12volt.com There is everything there from how to build a box to why you need the big three.

    The sub and amp you have are a great match. With the sub wired in parallel at 2Ω, the amp is supposed to do 900 watts and your woofer is rated at 700 watts. I recommend building or having built, a ported enclosure that's designed for that driver, tuned somewhere around 36hz.

    As for wire size, I would argue that 1/0 the first time is your best bet. At the least, 2 gauge. The wire and electrical system are the foundation of any audio system and you wouldn't build your house on a poor foundation so it stands to reason that you wouldn't build a sound system on one either. Overbuilding (using 1/0) will ensure that your amp runs as cool as possible and that it produces as much power as it possible can, without strain. This translates to a longer lifespan for your amp(s) and speakers. CCA (copper clad aluminum) is less expensive than OFC (oxygen free copper) and as long as you aren't chasing tenths of a dB in competitions, it is more than ample. Where CCA falls short is that it carries 15-25% less current than pure copper and that number increases with heat. However, to reiterate... if you aren't chasing points, it's not big on the "bang per buck" scale. Another thing to be sure of is that you use good quality ANL fuses on the power wire and don't use a breaker. Breakers don't trip as quickly as fuses in low resistant short scenarios and as such, present a danger to the electrical system and amplifiers. Lastly, make sure that ALL of your system grounds are made to bare metal and that they are tight and protected from corrosion. A simple coating with cheap spray paint or, even better, undercoating like Flex Seal or Plasti Dip works great.
    For now, an AGM battery under the hood is a good idea and eventually, you'll want to upgrade the alternator but that's not necessary with the power you're running, provided that you do the big three and use good wire. Another good upgrade is a battery or capacitor near the amplifiers. You want ~100 amp hours of battery for every 1000 watts of power and dollar for dollar, a small AGM battery that costs the same as a capacitor is, in my opinion, a better solution. Caps can provide short bursts of current but they do not store enough current to provide sustained help to the electrical system.
    The last consideration with respect to providing enough power is speaker wire. Again, bigger is always better so don't cut corners here. For the system you have, I would run 10 gauge speaker wire to the sub or, two runs of 12. For the mids and highs and since I don't know the power of that amp, run at least 16 gauge. Since you probably don't have a warehouse full of different wire sizes laying around your house, I would recommend buying a spool of 12 gauge that can be used for all your speakers. A 50' spool isn't very expensive and again here, you can use CCA. Just keep in mind that when you buy any wire, especially car audio wire, there are more than one wire sizing standards in the world and a lot of the wire that comes from Asia is rated differently. So if you're buying wire that doesn't specify "true AWG" or "American AWG", it will be slightly smaller. For instance, 10 gauge Chinese wire will be equivalent to 12 gauge American AWG wire. Most people believe this to be a deceptive practice and in some cases it is. But doing some due diligence is your responsibility so if you see some wire that's 50% less expensive than other wires of that same gauge... assume it's rated with the smaller standard and adjust your sizing accordingly.
    For patch cables (RCAs), use decent quality cables but not the cheapest you can find. Signal cables are very important but trust me, I used to sell XLO Electric's cables in home theater and there is for sure a point where the expense of a cable is not justifiable because the improvements it makes are not audible. Fifty to seventy five cents per foot for patch cables will get you good quality signal wires.

    Now that you have a great foundation upon which to build a great sounding system... deadener. I would recommend it for the doors and trunk/hatch. But, I wouldn't recommend it as a first priority, especially if you're on a tight budget and are doing the install yourself. For the power you're running, you are better off to get the system built and then go to chasing rattles. With all the window up, turn the system up to high volume and start walking around the car listening for unpleasant noises. When you find you can fix em. Also for a tight budget, undercoating or Flex Seal is a good deadener, just make sure you don't get overspray on things you don't want painted. Plasti Dip also claims sound deadening qualities and while I have used it, I haven't used it to deaden panels so I can't speak to it's effectiveness. That said, it's a rubberized coating so I'm sure it has some ability to deaden.

    Lastly, gain setting. This is perhaps the most critical part of building a loud, clean sound system as opposed to a voice coil cooking machine. The gain settings on your amplifiers are not there to set the volume of the system. The volume you'll get out of the system is determined by equipment, installation, vehicle acoustics and the source you're using. It is pretty much pre determined by those things and cannot be boosted with a gain knob. What gain knobs are for is matching your amplifier's input sensitivity to your source's output voltage. If your head unit provides 2 volts of line level signal and the amp is set to produce maximum power at 2 volts, the system will be just as loud as if the head unit produced 4 volts of line level signal, provided the amp is set accordingly. Too high a gain setting introduces distortion, which causes amplifier strain and overheating of the motors in your speakers.
    If you have a DMM (multimeter) there is a procedure that can be followed which will help you get the gains set "pretty close" and to be sure, safe, if you are methodical and set the gains just shy of where that procedure would have you set them. DMMs can be had on the cheap but they aren't the best method. The best method is to use an oscilloscope or a DD-1 distortion detector but, those devices are close to or over $200.00, where a cheap DMM can be bought for a tenth of that price.
    Your best bet is to find someone with a scope or a DD-1 who will set them for you, if you're not comfortable with the DMM method. If you were in my town, I would be happy to do it and perhaps there is someone in your area who would be too. If not, call around to some shops and ask how they set gains. If they say by ear... call the next shop. You can probably get them set at a shop for $20-40.00. Some shops may charge a one hour minimum and shop rates are sometimes as high as $75.00 per hour or more. Personally, I wouldn't trade with a shop like that because the gain setting procedure is a ten minute ordeal at the most, in most systems.

    I hope that helps and, good luck!

    You have valid point but 0 gauge is way overkill and , I must say where other make a point of saying you need a big 3 your a dum a$$ just off the fact if you needed it your car would come stock with 0 gauge and wouldnt run without it where are your brains enough said lol




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    There is no such thing as overkill in electrical....




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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    feg




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    bbeljefe's Avatar
    bbeljefe is offline Premium Member bbeljefe is a Supporting Member of the forum!



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    Re: Very confused. Have amps, subs, speakers, but no RCA, wires, amk kit, etc. whats

    Either I have a valid point or I don't have a valid point. If you understand how electricity works and you understand that manufacturers build the electrical systems in cars to accommodate only a small amount of additional equipment, then you also understand why it is important to install the big three upgrade on anything over ~500 watts of power. It's true that it doesn't have to be zero gauge and that's why I worded my comments the way I did. My recommendation is for 1/0 because in 25 years of building systems for people, I've seen most of them immediately start making plans for more equipment once they heard a good sounding system in their ride.

    Also, calling someone ******* is not an argument. If you have a cogent argument against my (or anyone else's) recommendations, then formulate that argument and help someone, rather than hurling baseless insults at people about whom you know nothing.




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