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  1. #61
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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Contraptions View Post
    sean is a character. leave it at that



    well, lets not stray from what you said. you didn't say there wasn't anything new tech wise, you said it has nothing really going for it.

    starting with the topology of the motor, that's not a standard arrangement in which the flux path has one loop equating to one gap, this has 2. I call it a floating gap. the bottom gap is apposed to the top and the coils run in a push/pull formation. when one coil winding leaves one gap and begins to enter another, a breaking occurs by the opposed flux path being opposite polarity of the originated gap thus keeping it from over travel and mechanical damage. not that I see that happening anyways considering the spider diameter is larger then the standard 8" and 10" (there 12" due to the 5" coil with very healthy progressive roll)

    the coil its self surpasses round wound or flat wound via edge wound method. this is more efficient when it comes to maximum coil density without causing excess air pockets between layers and increase inductance from the layers interaction with the core.

    the coil is also ceramic toughened with a thicker then standard coil former. this helps with heat and structural integrity.

    the coil is single 1 ohm (there wired internally together) yet theres two sets of leads. this is common SQ practice to keep the stresses and weights even on the spider. it costs more to do but pays off in the klippel testing.

    the frame acts as a heat sink as does the above and below gaps structures. they also reduce modulation.

    the cone is more or less a rohacell copy. very strong yet very light. this helps with accurate tonal reproduction under high excursion.

    and the 19" portion, that helps make it a true 18" cone in terms of area. not perfect but helps. im sure it was also done for proprietary reasons for recone prevention outside of Rockford. id rebuild it with an adapter my self
    i dont see anything special about the woofer. the biggest variable in the voicecoil is the bonding agent that has to isolate and bond each winding of the coil. as far as i know DD has the highest operating temp o there coils while most companys dont even back there coils DD bakes them twice.the ceramic based bonding agents nasa use have a much high opt tem but are way heavier have way more expansion and high conductivity.. while most companies have excellent glues you have to take the time to properly cure the substance. ive never been impressed with any of the T2/t3 power woofers from RF. the team RF woofers where decent but that wasn't RF.. lol

    as far as the push pull when your have an inductive load your going to have lag/lead the push pull configuration wont help lower inductance and feedback or increase motor strength.



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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Dd ftw



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    Re: Re vs sundown

    All us coils are backed with adhesion between layers. As far as temp goes anything with very high temp handling 400f+ is **** anyways due to impedance rise in a hot coil. That's why preventing heat is more reasonable the. Beefing a coil up. Like the coils I designed




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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Contraptions View Post
    All us coils are backed with adhesion between layers. As far as temp goes anything with very high temp handling 400f+ is **** anyways due to impedance rise in a hot coil. That's why preventing heat is more reasonable the. Beefing a coil up. Like the coils I designed
    would that indicate a 4 inch 4 layer coil would be better than a 3 inch 8 layer coil due to heat dissipation, does motor size, density, and weight change the thermal capacity the coil sees? understandably overall thermal capacity increases, but specifically the coil.




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    Re: Re vs sundown

    The layers in a coil affect heat dissipation. More layers = more air between layers. That males hot spots. Also more coil volume equates to longer dissipation time of the mass. That's why fools put longer coils on motors to get better power handling. Takes longer to get hot. But at the risk of a hard bottom, increased cost and increased mms which hurts efficiency. If you were aiming for a high fs you would then need a stiffer spider to comp.

    A 4" 4 layer would cool more efficiently due to increased surface area and decreased mass. Motor plays some role in thermal rediation causing the heat to be wicked into nearby materials which is why any motors are black and tolerance between former and pole is very important




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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Contraptions View Post
    The layers in a coil affect heat dissipation. More layers = more air between layers. That males hot spots. Also more coil volume equates to longer dissipation time of the mass. That's why fools put longer coils on motors to get better power handling. Takes longer to get hot. But at the risk of a hard bottom, increased cost and increased mms which hurts efficiency. If you were aiming for a high fs you would then need a stiffer spider to comp.

    A 4" 4 layer would cool more efficiently due to increased surface area and decreased mass. Motor plays some role in thermal rediation causing the heat to be wicked into nearby materials which is why any motors are black and tolerance between former and pole is very important

    Fools put long coils in? So my nsv3 with a pretty dang long 3" coil is made by a fool?? Interesting




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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Quote Originally Posted by Massive spl View Post
    Fools put long coils in? So my nsv3 with a pretty dang long 3" coil is made by a fool?? Interesting
    Longer coils would keep things more linear in long-throw applications where the motor has enough depth too, right?



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    If I had $2,000, I wouldn't be running kicker comps.

  10. #68
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    Re: Re vs sundown

    If you take my statement out of context that's a bit foolish Ya.

    Average reconers can "increase" power handling for a customer, almost always done by stiffening spiders and a longer coil. If designed right and the motor can actually use the coil length it's good such as your situation.




  11. #69
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    Re: Re vs sundown

    I know PSI adds more spiders to "increase power handling". That's what they did with my DD 9515



    My Silverado is under construction AGAIN http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/621466-alexs-silverado.html
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    Love is when she licks your butthole and try's to kiss you and u smack her but she doesn't get mad because she know that nasty and she in the wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Slo_Ride View Post
    Fuck me running. Even I wouldnt eat stripper snatch.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeradios View Post
    I would rather beat you to death with a garden rake then talk politics with you due to your overwhelming ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph7195 View Post
    A three legged hooker walks into a bar. Yadda Yadda Yadda, I ended up sucking a dick.
    Quote Originally Posted by gckless View Post
    When that hooker turns out to have a cock. That's bigger than yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by LongThrow View Post
    If I had $2,000, I wouldn't be running kicker comps.

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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Rockford for the most part isn't that great but i'll tell ya, that 360.3 processor is awesome......



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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Interesting. We've gotten away from the OP but good stuff on coils ITT.



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  14. #72
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    Re: Re vs sundown

    The most varible factor is the adhesives thermal and electrical properties..
    Some glues have a higher thermal conductivity but lower electrical conductivity at those temps.
    Lime women. It's complicated.. Lol



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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomin_tahoe View Post
    if you were closer, I'd let ya demo what a pair of Sundown's sound like.
    MY dad has 2 ZV4's 18's so I know how hard these little bastards hurt. I just didn't want to leave my RE in the dust if it's not worth it.




  16. #74
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    Re: Re vs sundown

    The XXX uses dual coil single gap.. It's exactly the same thing. The motor is pretty linear. It's just the worse efficency wise. Id rather pay the fee and use xbl..



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    Re: Re vs sundown

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Contraptions View Post
    The layers in a coil affect heat dissipation. More layers = more air between layers. That males hot spots. Also more coil volume equates to longer dissipation time of the mass. That's why fools put longer coils on motors to get better power handling. Takes longer to get hot. But at the risk of a hard bottom, increased cost and increased mms which hurts efficiency. If you were aiming for a high fs you would then need a stiffer spider to comp.

    A 4" 4 layer would cool more efficiently due to increased surface area and decreased mass. Motor plays some role in thermal rediation causing the heat to be wicked into nearby materials which is why any motors are black and tolerance between former and pole is very important
    I have to disagree what you here.
    I've found that a longer 4layer coil with a larger topplate is a better option than a 8 layer coil in many cases. Not only that but it gives you more xmax.
    I'd also rather in some applications perfer stepping ul to a 4" coil.id agree they have Superior cooling over the same length 3" 8layer coil but it doesn't take long for them to get extremely heavy. Although mass for the most part isn't a huge deal it much be accounted for and if you can keep it low I'd suggest you do so..



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