1. ## Re: Nightshade v.3 Information

Holy cow, nice!

2. ## Re: Nightshade v.3 Information

I made a technical post the other day on Facebook regarding some of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 -- figured I would share it over here.

We built a set of NS v.3 12s with a smaller 8 3/8" spider pack, stock long 4-layer coil, and a Z v.3 style cone for a customer build requiring them to peak at 50+ Hz -- Fs came in at 47 hz so I am very pleased and they should be awesome.

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/FB_NSv3_12s.jpg]

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/10014741_639014686154006_2024985945688185714_o.jpg]

The customer asked about the raw BL figure so I did some explanation for him :

Part 1 :

"Little tech talk on the specs while I'm at it. As compared to a Z v.3 12" model (as they share the same cone configured this way) and also an NS v.2 12" model :

Z v.3 12" : BL^2/RE = 131.8 / MMS (276g) = 0.477 SPL Factor
Le = 1.12x RE for 50mm coil length (8-layer)

NS v.3 12" SPL : BL^2/RE = 204 / MMS (296g) = 0.69 SPL Factor
Le = 1.01x RE for 80mm coil length (4-layer)

NS v.2 : BL^2/RE = 201 / MMS (346g) = 0.58 SPL Factor
LE = 1.62x RE for 70mm coil length (8-layer)

Given the variation in SPL factor assuming all else equal that leaves us with an advantage of 45% to NS v.3 compared to the Z v.3 which is close to 1.5dB gain for burps. Also factor in that the coil is 60% longer and the spider is also over an inch wider and you have the potential for even more output; likely 2.5+ dB in the end.

Part of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 is the use of a VERY long coil for very large amounts of x-max -- but in order to keep LE and MMS down a 4-layer was used for the stock configuration. Thanks to the huge motor we can still get BL^2/RE on par with the NS v.2 but with much better MMS and LE figures."

Part 2 :

"Also... BL in and of itself has essentially no meaning without looking at the RE (DC resistance). So to properly analyze the spec you must consider BL^2/RE (The NS v.3 Dual-1 has a very low DCR so BL alone might look "low" compared to other higher DCR units) -- but this still isn't the entire picture so also look to their relationship to MMS to gather the "SPL Factor"

And still yet... if all of that looks good and LE is too high you STILL won't have good SPL performance at higher frequencies as LE works as a 6dB low-pass crossover. With the NS v.3 we are able to get a good mix of ALL of these aspects at the same time."

----------

I am not sure alot of people have realized yet how awesome the NS v.3 Le spec is yet... it is simply on par with the RE with an 80mm long coil. That is lower than the 50mm long coil used on the Z v.3 10 and 12 models... and MUCH lower than the NS v.2 coil that was 70mm long.

The cool thing about the NS v.3 is that we could use either of the other coils we compared to in this motor if we wanted to do so. I have sleeves that are perfect for the Z v.3 and NS v.2 coils -- so we aren't limited to JUST this configuration; but I chose it as stock due to it possessing such an excellent mix of Motor Force, Inductance, and Mass characteristics.

3. ## Re: Nightshade v.3 Information

Originally Posted by sundownz
I made a technical post the other day on Facebook regarding some of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 -- figured I would share it over here.

We built a set of NS v.3 12s with a smaller 8 3/8" spider pack, stock long 4-layer coil, and a Z v.3 style cone for a customer build requiring them to peak at 50+ Hz -- Fs came in at 47 hz so I am very pleased and they should be awesome.

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/FB_NSv3_12s.jpg]

[img=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/protos/NS_v3/Tech_Posts/10014741_639014686154006_2024985945688185714_o.jpg]

The customer asked about the raw BL figure so I did some explanation for him :

Part 1 :

"Little tech talk on the specs while I'm at it. As compared to a Z v.3 12" model (as they share the same cone configured this way) and also an NS v.2 12" model :

Z v.3 12" : BL^2/RE = 131.8 / MMS (276g) = 0.477 SPL Factor
Le = 1.12x RE for 50mm coil length (8-layer)

NS v.3 12" SPL : BL^2/RE = 204 / MMS (296g) = 0.69 SPL Factor
Le = 1.01x RE for 80mm coil length (4-layer)

NS v.2 : BL^2/RE = 201 / MMS (346g) = 0.58 SPL Factor
LE = 1.62x RE for 70mm coil length (8-layer)

Given the variation in SPL factor assuming all else equal that leaves us with an advantage of 45% to NS v.3 compared to the Z v.3 which is close to 1.5dB gain for burps. Also factor in that the coil is 60% longer and the spider is also over an inch wider and you have the potential for even more output; likely 2.5+ dB in the end.

Part of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 is the use of a VERY long coil for very large amounts of x-max -- but in order to keep LE and MMS down a 4-layer was used for the stock configuration. Thanks to the huge motor we can still get BL^2/RE on par with the NS v.2 but with much better MMS and LE figures."

Part 2 :

"Also... BL in and of itself has essentially no meaning without looking at the RE (DC resistance). So to properly analyze the spec you must consider BL^2/RE (The NS v.3 Dual-1 has a very low DCR so BL alone might look "low" compared to other higher DCR units) -- but this still isn't the entire picture so also look to their relationship to MMS to gather the "SPL Factor"

And still yet... if all of that looks good and LE is too high you STILL won't have good SPL performance at higher frequencies as LE works as a 6dB low-pass crossover. With the NS v.3 we are able to get a good mix of ALL of these aspects at the same time."

----------

I am not sure alot of people have realized yet how awesome the NS v.3 Le spec is yet... it is simply on par with the RE with an 80mm long coil. That is lower than the 50mm long coil used on the Z v.3 10 and 12 models... and MUCH lower than the NS v.2 coil that was 70mm long.

The cool thing about the NS v.3 is that we could use either of the other coils we compared to in this motor if we wanted to do so. I have sleeves that are perfect for the Z v.3 and NS v.2 coils -- so we aren't limited to JUST this configuration; but I chose it as stock due to it possessing such an excellent mix of Motor Force, Inductance, and Mass characteristics.
I still need to get my nsv3 15 fixed where my spider wasn't glued down all the way around the coil....

4. ## Re: Nightshade v.3 Information

Originally Posted by Moler1129
I still need to get my nsv3 15 fixed where my spider wasn't glued down all the way around the coil....
Hmmm. That sounds very odd -- have you issued an RMA request ?

Either way I'd like to take a look -- copy me on any e-mails or photos you have send to tech support already; [email protected]

5. ## Re: Nightshade v.3 Information

Originally Posted by sundownz
Hmmm. That sounds very odd -- have you issued an RMA request ?

Either way I'd like to take a look -- copy me on any e-mails or photos you have send to tech support already; [email protected]
RMA number is 0728w. I'm surprised this happened. Been like it since the day I got it, I just have to get around 150 to ship the dam thing

6. ## Re: Nightshade v.3 Information

Originally Posted by Moler1129
RMA number is 0728w. I'm surprised this happened. Been like it since the day I got it, I just have to get around 150 to ship the dam thing
Forward me all the information on it; including photos, purchase info, etc.

To make it easier I sent you an e-mail this morning.
Last edited by sundownz; 05-02-2014 at 09:01 AM.

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