1. ## Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

So I am no expert on this matter but I know I have read quite a few things that relate to how loud something will be based off the cone area but also taken into account is excursion etc etc etc a lot of **** I have no idea about. Lets count out "Its all in the enclosure mannn".

My question is, since the surround on the X is so large and the cone so small would output be sacrificed for excursion in this case, or would the excursion make up for the lessened cone area? I was thinking about getting a 12" but the cone looks so small im worried about output.

Would this be something I should be worried about?

Should I just save up and get the 15" instead if I want the same output as say another 12" (Sundown SA, HDC3, W7, RE MX)?

Any insight appreciated, not sure where to start.

Trey

2. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

The difference in cone area is ~10% and is a non-issue.

3. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Originally Posted by sundownz
The difference in cone area is ~10% and is a non-issue.
So would that be considered 10% less output? AKA inaudible to our ears obviously. Im more interested in technicality of it all honestly lol

Such as is xmax considered part of output? Cone area play a bigger part? Im like a 2 year old with these questions, couldnt find a definitive answer when searched

The X subwoofer intrigues me I likey

4. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

I believe the subs are oversized also which would make up for the potentially lost cone area. Ie:the 10 is closer to a true 11

5. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Originally Posted by DRS0105
I believe the subs are oversized also which would make up for the potentially lost cone area. Ie:the 10 is closer to a true 11
Ah I didnt even think to look at that
Last edited by TreyE; 09-18-2013 at 10:11 AM.

6. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Usable piston diameter consists of the cone plus ~1/3 to 1/2 of the surround. So when you look at cone area, envision that half of the surround is also a part of the piston area that actually moves air.

To my knowledge, the X isn't over sized. I haven't used them but I've used the SA and Z series and they're the same physical dimension at the mounting ring and I can't imagine a manufacturer making a mid line sub larger than its top line.

But back to piston area... a low powered 10 with little xmax will usually measure 8-8.5" of piston area. A high powered, high xmax 10 will usually measure 7.75-8.25" of piston. So for the low powered speaker (using the larger of the numbers) you have 56.75inⁿ of piston area and with the high powered one you have 53.46inⁿ of piston area.

To begin with, that's not much of a difference. But then if you consider that the low powered sub has ~11mm of xmax (just under ½") while the high powered sub has ~22mm (about 7/8"), you can see that the high powered driver will displace a lot more air.

The reason.... you have 6% less cone area with the high powered driver but, you have 100% more xmax, so the loss in cone area is more than made up or by the amount of travel that smaller cone has.

And please understand, I'm not quoting specific speakers or making a claim that ALL low powered drivers are this large or have that much xmax. The numbers I used are averages.

7. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Originally Posted by bbeljefe
Usable piston diameter consists of the cone plus ~1/3 to 1/2 of the surround. So when you look at cone area, envision that half of the surround is also a part of the piston area that actually moves air.

To my knowledge, the X isn't over sized. I haven't used them but I've used the SA and Z series and they're the same physical dimension at the mounting ring and I can't imagine a manufacturer making a mid line sub larger than its top line.

But back to piston area... a low powered 10 with little xmax will usually measure 8-8.5" of piston area. A high powered, high xmax 10 will usually measure 7.75-8.25" of piston. So for the low powered speaker (using the larger of the numbers) you have 56.75inⁿ of piston area and with the high powered one you have 53.46inⁿ of piston area.

To begin with, that's not much of a difference. But then if you consider that the low powered sub has ~11mm of xmax (just under ½") while the high powered sub has ~22mm (about 7/8"), you can see that the high powered driver will displace a lot more air.

The reason.... you have 6% less cone area with the high powered driver but, you have 100% more xmax, so the loss in cone area is more than made up or by the amount of travel that smaller cone has.

And please understand, I'm not quoting specific speakers or making a claim that ALL low powered drivers are this large or have that much xmax. The numbers I used are averages.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

8. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

yes 1/2 the surrond is sd.
the subs are more of a sql sub and have large throw. so if you loose a lil sd but gain excursion you will move more air.
with spl throw isnt everything...

9. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

take alook at all the tc sounds sql woofers from 10yrs ago such as the eclipse ti pro's they had massive surronds...

10. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Originally Posted by SPLaudio
yes 1/2 the surrond is sd.
the subs are more of a sql sub and have large throw. so if you loose a lil sd but gain excursion you will move more air.
with spl throw isnt everything...
sd?

cone area

12. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Some good info for the lamens in this thread

13. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

@sundownz Do you know displacement of Sundown X 12"? Building a box, just picked one up looking for specs. Andy is building it for me (One of your dealers here in Tampa)

14. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Originally Posted by bbeljefe
Usable piston diameter consists of the cone plus ~1/3 to 1/2 of the surround. So when you look at cone area, envision that half of the surround is also a part of the piston area that actually moves air.

To my knowledge, the X isn't over sized. I haven't used them but I've used the SA and Z series and they're the same physical dimension at the mounting ring and I can't imagine a manufacturer making a mid line sub larger than its top line.

But back to piston area... a low powered 10 with little xmax will usually measure 8-8.5" of piston area. A high powered, high xmax 10 will usually measure 7.75-8.25" of piston. So for the low powered speaker (using the larger of the numbers) you have 56.75inⁿ of piston area and with the high powered one you have 53.46inⁿ of piston area.

To begin with, that's not much of a difference. But then if you consider that the low powered sub has ~11mm of xmax (just under ½") while the high powered sub has ~22mm (about 7/8"), you can see that the high powered driver will displace a lot more air.

The reason.... you have 6% less cone area with the high powered driver but, you have 100% more xmax, so the loss in cone area is more than made up or by the amount of travel that smaller cone has.

And please understand, I'm not quoting specific speakers or making a claim that ALL low powered drivers are this large or have that much xmax. The numbers I used are averages.
I just wouldn't consider the surround as part of the actual cone. the surround does move but in a non linear fashion. some woofers use a soft surround and the cone extends slightly pass the surround but its sill not a solid linear surface.. that being said the output difference is minimal..

15. ## Re: Sundown X, technical question about output, cone area/excursion

Originally Posted by SPLaudio
yes 1/2 the surrond is sd.
the subs are more of a sql sub and have large throw. so if you loose a lil sd but gain excursion you will move more air.
with spl throw isnt everything...
by whos standards.. surround displacement will likely cause more cancellation than output gain.. the surround is strictly for control of the upper part of the cone.. its not supposed to aid in displacement and its not linear as the surround actually moves in a non linear fashion. key is to introduce the least amount of mechanical distortion.. the surround taht works best it then only thing that matters.. the stiff *** erom surrounds are quite non linear.. if rather use a larger linear surround and sacrifice alittle cone area for a muhc more linear stroke..

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