subs playing over 100hz

[Beatin']

why do people frown upon that? I thought most kick drums, for example, start the attack in that range. Why filter that out?

I would also like to know in what world can 6.5's on the door make the hairs on my arm move on a 150hz note like my 15's can.

[supereikenator]

I don't think kick drums are that high, I always filter 80hz and above and the kick still hits. I just think the bass guitar and everything else above 80hz sounds like sh*t when it's really loud. I prefer clean, solid, hits.

[T3mpest]

Why would you wan to move arm hairs? Can't see your setup in sig but there is no way that sounds balanced unless your using pro audio speakers with ALOT of power. Midbass that is louder than the rest of the music just sounds bad. That being said, there is alot of advantages to running a sub as high as you can without it localizing badly, however, you still want to level match it in the midbass area unless you like it sound strange. On rock music, where you want midbass, you want the instruments to sound like themselves, so unless you can do a clean 120db of treble, no need for hair moving midbass.

Anyway it's frowned on for a few reasons. One I alluded to earlier was that if the sub plays too high, it draws the sound backwards, ideally for SQ you want to not realize the sub is behind you. The frequency this starts depends on the size of the car, smaller cars can be as high as 120hz, bigger cars, sometimes as low as 60. Anything in the back that rattles will be higher frequency distortion and that will draw the stage back too, crossing over low sometimes stops those rattles, so that's an install issue, but it can still be "Fixed" by a lower crossover point.

Lastly, alot of car audio subs have big heavy coils because they know car audio guys want to put 3k to it lol. They also rarely have shorting rings to lower inductance and that leads to 2 things. One, the sub may not even be ABLE to play up to 100hz for example. (common on alot of "high output super subs". Or if they do play that high, they do it with distortion, that again, localizes.

In a perfect world, stop all the rattles in the rear, run a low distortion sub with shorting rings and play it as high as you can without localization to keep the fronts from having to work as hard. A well designed sub can play midbass better than any front speaker, simply due to it's size, excursion and powerhandling capabilties.

[bbeljefe]

↑↑ That and the fact that our brains handle mid range frequencies differently than other frequencies.

Some good reading on the subject.

[trumpet]

Kick drums are heard over a wider range of frequencies than people assume. The same goes for any real instrument or vocals. You can't just focus on 60-150Hz, for example, to get it sounding right.

Without knowing what your setup consists of, it's possible you're hearing a lot of harmonic distortion from the subwoofer and not clean bass above 100 Hz. I'm wondering if you know it's actually 150 Hz you heard or if you're guessing. That's really specific.

I have had a sealed 12" crossed at around 120 Hz but it isn't your typical type of sub you see on the forums. That sub can't get loud at all, but it sounds really good.

[Beatin']

I used 150hz as an example. The actual in-song note could have been anywhere between 100-200hz.

my setup consists of 2 AT strato 15's on a bk1800.1

The amps x-over is set at 250hz.

[ladysmanfelpz]

Like said earlier, when you get a nice quality system and eliminate the rattles you can really tell the sound stage when the sub gets to higher frequencies. I had a small 4 sedan with 10" cvx in it and it could slap. At first I just liked bass and had decent door speakers. Then I amped those and had the speakers sounding nice. I then sound dampened my car with hushmat and got near every rattle out of that guy. I set my LPF to 85 hz and the bass was sick. I started messing with it, especially for rock like you were saying, and put it to 120 hz and it sounded like ****. I left the amp LPF at 120 hz and I could change it from my deck between 85 hz and 100 hz so I could still mess with it for rock songs where I wanted a little more kick drum. Even the 15 hz difference was noticeable in my sedan, but not too bad. If you like messing with your low pass, then set it higher on the amp like I did if and change it through your deck if you can.

[Jeffdachef]

a simple answer would be, you can move a lot more than arm hairs with a 40 hertz tone in a high powered setup. As long as you have everything blending in together smoothly with no distortion and your happy then forget what people say. I like the high hertz response too, back then i had a lot of it when running two JL W0s in my teen years, thought it sounded amazing but never quite loud enough for me.

Seems like you can only get this type of sound response mostly from entry level low powered subwoofers and if you wanted it louder, you'd have to run multiple.

That being said, I prefer my current setup a lot more than any other setups i've previously had, just need to add some 8 inch mids to my doors.

[logan963]

I run my crossover at 100 hz but I run a single JBL W12 sealed, I think it sounds quite nice, but I did experiment with the crossover point, and it makes the sub more noticeable, which you don't want. You'd be better off with a nice front stage if your more of an sq guy, if not and you like it, bass on!

[murph]

Subwoofers are called subwoofers because they play sub-bass. If you want loud and powerful mid-bass get some 8 inch mid-bass/midrange drivers.

[T3mpest]

a simple answer would be, you can move a lot more than arm hairs with a 40 hertz tone in a high powered setup. As long as you have everything blending in together smoothly with no distortion and your happy then forget what people say. I like the high hertz response too, back then i had a lot of it when running two JL W0s in my teen years, thought it sounded amazing but never quite loud enough for me.

Seems like you can only get this type of sound response mostly from entry level low powered subwoofers and if you wanted it louder, you'd have to run multiple.

That being said, I prefer my current setup a lot more than any other setups i've previously had, just need to add some 8 inch mids to my doors.

I alluded to that in my last post. If you want a high end sub that can still play upper notes you need to look for subs with shorting rings or copper sleeves on the motor, along with moderately high effeciency. 6th order bandpass enclosures can also be utilized as that gives you an upper resonant point as well as a lower one.

[Beatin']

Subwoofers are called subwoofers because they play sub-bass. If you want loud and powerful mid-bass get some 8 inch mid-bass/midrange drivers.

You don't always have enough room for crap loads of speakers and amps. At this point in time, I will agree that 100hz+ should be reserved for mid bass drivers. I may bring back 6x9's sealed off from the trunk in the future, but I already know it would require replacing the factory full range amp for an after market 4 channel. More time and $$$$........

No wonder why many people just let the subs play mid bass frequencies.

[Jeffdachef]

I alluded to that in my last post. If you want a high end sub that can still play upper notes you need to look for subs with shorting rings or copper sleeves on the motor, along with moderately high effeciency. 6th order bandpass enclosures can also be utilized as that gives you an upper resonant point as well as a lower one.

any high end subs you can name at the top of your head that fits these descriptions?

[zako]

I think there can be many reasons:

1. Subwoofers can be "slow" above 100Hz. That is, the transient response may not be as good as that of a dedicated midbass speaker as you go up the frequency range.

2. Letting the subwoofer play above 100Hz will not necessarily add a lot SPL. This is because in a closed cabin, cabin gain works better at the lower frequencies.

3. If the subwoofer is in the rear, playing in midbass range can draw your attention to its location. If the system is SQ oriented, you want subwoofer to be very "transparent".

I don't know why there is a desire to use high pass above 100Hz. Any 6.5 inch woofer worth its price should be able to play down to 100Hz with flat frequency response. A lot will play fine down 80Hz. You need more expensive woofers, and good sound proofing in door to play below 80Hz with authority.

All of this depends on the entire setup. I have seen some reviews where people made a claim that their high end SQ subwoofer (Peerless?) is so good, that they could run it full range without any filter.