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    Beatin''s Avatar
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    lets get technical

    I want to build my own subwoofer. If I go forth with this, I'm looking for devastation and tragedy. lol

    I know what kind of materials I'll be needing, and how to put it together. I may even implement my own proprietary design elements.

    What I'm not familiar with is the relation between the voice coil and motor structure.

    My plan is to have a motor consisting of 5 ferrite ring magnets being 0.75"tall, with 3.75" ID, and 7" OD.

    With the space the pole peice will take up, the voice coil and former will have to be 3.5-3.6" in diameter. First qestion is, does it matter what the diameter of the coil is? Or does it have to be as close to the ferrite ring ID as possible?

    I also plan on having extreme excursion. Because of this, I don't want a long voice coil. Instead, I want to copy a design I saw in the underhung TC thread. The plan is to have a short 1 inch max voice coil length. Now, how many layers will it need? What is the effect of more or less layers? Is it simply to achieve impedance or higher QES, etc???

    Also, where should the resting position of the voice coil be? Directly in the middle of the motor structure?

    More questions coming soon as I think about this some more.........



    All day I'm clippin'
    voltage be dippin'
    I don't give a damn,
    cause my trunk always hittin'!

    creating a proper sound wave. Step one, turn it up until clipping. Step two, done.




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    Re: lets get technical

    Slow down turbo. Lots more research I'd recommend.




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    *Ace* is offline Subwooferologist



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    Re: lets get technical

    Quote Originally Posted by terra View Post
    Slow down turbo. Lots more research I'd recommend.
    x2, look for my started threads through my profile and you'll see I started a thread just like this. I've learned A LOT since that thread, and let's just say there's a very good reason why there are only a few different companies out there making subwoofers specifically. I never thought it would be easy, but I just didn't understand how difficult it actually is.

    I hope you have at the very least $15,000 in hand. I also hope you are very well versed in 3D CAD with programs such as Autodesk Inventor Pro, Alibre Desings, etc if you truly want to get into customizing and testing each individual part. Hell, to start off just download FEMM and see if you can get the hang of that. Buy as many books as possible, starting with "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" by Vance Dickason. Even if you manage to read and UNDERSTAND everything thats written in that book you still have a ways to go. Also get a copy of the 2012 Loudspeaker Industry Sourcebook like I have. It gives you several companies from China, Europe, America, etc. that do wholesale work for spiders, baskets, motors, etc. I also hope you have a degree in electrical/mechanical engineering if you plan on inventing anything "new" for the industry or to bring out anything ground breaking like Dan Wiggins did with XBL.

    If you want to go the "easy" way of having your own sub company, contact TC Sounds, Eminence, Pierce Audio, or Scott Atwell (Fi Audio) or a few others. They are also OEM manufacturers and will do all the design and building for you if you are not able to. This is the route SSA Audio goes I believe, having Scott design and build all their drivers. But these companies usually require at least a 100 order minimum.

    Honestly, this is the route I think I will start off with in the future and maybe one day will have the knowledge, money, and equipment to start designing my own stuff. But I would suggest you start browsing every car audio forum you know, reading every post made by Dan Wiggins, Scott Atwell, the user "Warbleed", Thilo from TC Sounds, Jacob from Sundown and many others. There is a lot of information out there, you just have to dig for it

    If you have any more questions, post them here or PM me, I'd be more than willing to let you know as much as I do about this subject, as limited as it is. And in fact, it would be really awesome if Jacob or other manufacturers could chime in and give us all a tip on how to start up a company, or maybe give their personal stories of how they started up. I understand it took a lot of work to build up and get where they're at, so maybe they wouldn't want to share, but it would be WELL appreciated.



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    Re: lets get technical

    Stop it.



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    Re: lets get technical

    I was told to be amazing.

    Not to do this, but to get gamefly....that's amazing.

    Blake griffin says so......




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    Re: lets get technical

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray21 View Post
    Stop it.
    Why stop? This forum is mostly made up of topics such as "What will get louder", "How many dbz will I hit" etc and when a topic comes up that could actually produce some technical discussions you say to stop? Doesn't make sense to me. I would imagine you would want to encourage such topics, no?



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    Re: lets get technical

    Quote Originally Posted by *Ace* View Post
    Why stop? This forum is mostly made up of topics such as "What will get louder", "How many dbz will I hit" etc and when a topic comes up that could actually produce some technical discussions you say to stop? Doesn't make sense to me. I would imagine you would want to encourage such topics, no?
    Forgive me for the impatient reply. It's obvious the OP needs to do some homework before he asks to get technical about building a subwoofer. There are a few decent threads and papers about different motor types and their pros/cons, etc. Google is your friend!

    http://www.acousticdev.com/Files/XBLPrimer.pdf

    About underhung:
    Lambda 001 Motor
    http://www.madisound.com/store/manua...whitepaper.pdf

    About other linear motor technologies:
    An Unbiased Comparison of Linear BL Technologies - Technical Info & How To's - SSA Car Audio Forum

    More on XBL:
    http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2ExecSummary.pdf
    http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2DetailsPaper.pdf


    The OP doesn't know how he's going to get where he wants to go - he just wants an underhung sub with a huge motor and tons of excursion. Why do you want an underhung sub? Is a quintuple stack motor the best option? Will you even like the 'sound' of a lower distortion driver? They're certainly not for everyone... I don't think its as easy as guessing or throwing some off-the-shelf parts together and hoping it performs well... great performing drivers require extensive R&D IMO. Fortunately there are options that already exist or are being worked on.

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    JF Signature SQ-12 (By Sundown Audio) - DIYMA Car Audio Forum

    The revamped Alpine Type-S is a budget underhung driver; just run multiples to make up for the shorter throw.
    Last edited by Ray21; 03-24-2013 at 04:57 AM.



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    REFs: flakko, Naxis2k1, JCJetta, jrgreene1968, NoPh33rRaCiNg, VTECnicalAccord, jadon087, sundownz, lmllopez, Toxic Tuan

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  14. #8
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    Re: lets get technical

    slow down guys.......I'm not trying to create a company. I'm just trying to make 1 personally designed subwoofer for myself that is going to get loud.

    It's time to get reading.....



    All day I'm clippin'
    voltage be dippin'
    I don't give a damn,
    cause my trunk always hittin'!

    creating a proper sound wave. Step one, turn it up until clipping. Step two, done.

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    Re: lets get technical

    i can build you what ever you want and make the motor but the cost of a 1 off motor is gonna be very very expencive




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    Re: lets get technical

    Lets get physical, physical..




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    Re: lets get technical

    let's get realistic, realistic...



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    Re: lets get technical

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray21 View Post
    Will you even like the 'sound' of a lower distortion driver? They're certainly not for everyone...
    This is very important. After hearing the types of drivers you mentioned, many realize that they don't actually like the sound of a driver that does what it's supposed to do, lol.




    Quote Originally Posted by terra View Post
    Lets get physical, physical..
    lol



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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    Re: lets get technical

    Testing Loudspeakers by Joseph D'Appolito is an excellent resource as well.
    Testing Loudspeakers: Joseph D'Appolito: 9781882580170: Amazon.com: Books



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    Re: lets get technical

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatin' View Post
    I want to build my own subwoofer. If I go forth with this, I'm looking for devastation and tragedy. lol

    I know what kind of materials I'll be needing, and how to put it together. I may even implement my own proprietary design elements.

    What I'm not familiar with is the relation between the voice coil and motor structure.

    My plan is to have a motor consisting of 5 ferrite ring magnets being 0.75"tall, with 3.75" ID, and 7" OD.

    With the space the pole peice will take up, the voice coil and former will have to be 3.5-3.6" in diameter. First qestion is, does it matter what the diameter of the coil is? Or does it have to be as close to the ferrite ring ID as possible?

    I also plan on having extreme excursion. Because of this, I don't want a long voice coil. Instead, I want to copy a design I saw in the underhung TC thread. The plan is to have a short 1 inch max voice coil length. Now, how many layers will it need? What is the effect of more or less layers? Is it simply to achieve impedance or higher QES, etc???

    Also, where should the resting position of the voice coil be? Directly in the middle of the motor structure?

    More questions coming soon as I think about this some more.........
    I remember being at this stage of my interest in audio and, more specifically, drivers and how they do what they do. I had the same questions and more. Your specific interest at the moment is in motor design and that's a good thing. There is almost endless information out there on the topic. You're starting backwards, though. You're listing off design parameters without any cause for them. You need to set goals, but to set goals you would first you need a criteria for why you are setting these goals. Usually, extreme excursion is not the result of having a short coil. If it is, it is either very clever or very expensive. Probably both. Extreme excursion may not be necessary at all. Best thing to do is start by studying T/S parameters. Understand what they mean, what they do, how they are tightly linked to each other or not linked at all. Know what will happen when you change any one of the parameters, or have a program that will tell you as you model different numbers. Then you will see why this coil length (wind width) or why that much steel. You will see why this many grams of moving mass or how much thermal capacity, and so on.

    Books, online articles (not necessarily forums), modeling software, more books... Then execution of that knowledge with trial and error. Spare time and money will certainly help. If I had either of those, I would already have released my designs.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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    Re: lets get technical

    Small coil + large motor =

    To center a coil properly measure the coil and mark it at its half way pt. Then measure the top plate cut it in have and add it to the first measurement. Aligne that mark on the top of your top plate. Now you have a properly centered coil.

    As stated above the amount of money this will cost is crazy lol

    There is a 3.5in big boy motor in the world already



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