+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 92

Reload Thread: Underhung TC Nomz

  1. #46
    denim's Avatar
    denim is offline SSAudio.com



    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SSA HQ East
    Age
    37
    Posts
    28,246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitt View Post
    Why doesn't SSA design one?

    Ciaonzo...send me one...
    The SSA Gcon was initially underhung in prototype stages. The issue is the market is ever shrinking for something like this, and for an American made brand, margins are extremely tight. The amount of steel needed in the top plate of a substantial underhung subwoofer is pretty high, making the costs high.

    With the shorter/smaller coil, power handling/thermal limts are more of an issue in today's market of cheap amplifier power where people just want to throw more and more power at their speakers. All of that means, that with the sheer cost of steel rising, and our products being machined here in the USA and USA steel, it would be very costly. The market is also very power to price association driven, meaning most people perceive the price to be dictated by the power handling.

    For example, we know that a sub woofer that has the power handling of an SSA Gcon, but the price tag of an SSA Xcon, is not going to sell very well at all. We could lather it up in snake oil and BS to magically justify the cost through markeneering, but that is not the way we do things.

    Yes, there will be a potential for small improvements on the THD and inductance over a comparatively perceived overhung model, but not enough to make the money work. We do not have a big kitty of cash to play with to try something like that at this time. The power handling could always be offset a little by going with a higher number of layers or slightly taller underhung coil, but that would cause a substantial jump in the top plate steel needs. The bigger the underhung coil, the bigger the gap, the bigger the top plate, the bigger the price, for moderate power handling gains. Hope that explains why the Gcon moved to an overhung design in our business model.


    ---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitt View Post
    I NEEDZ D4s!
    Quad 16's foo!





    CarAudio.com mod(original)

  2. Likes ciaonzo liked this post



  3. #47
    denim's Avatar
    denim is offline SSAudio.com



    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SSA HQ East
    Age
    37
    Posts
    28,246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    Good looking driver from what I can tell. Shamefully, I think it's the relatively low power handling found with the smaller underhung coil that turns most away.

    I want to vomit every time I see someone basing their choice of driver simply off of power handling. But the I remember to laugh.
    Exactly. It will take a very long time, or heck it may never happen, to get people out of the mindset of just looking at power handling and being so mentally locked into needing to match it to power output rattings of their amplifiers.





    CarAudio.com mod(original)

  4. Likes ciaonzo liked this post
  5. #48
    wickedwitt's Avatar
    wickedwitt is offline CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Abilene, TX
    Posts
    2,984
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by denim View Post
    The SSA Gcon was initially underhung in prototype stages. The issue is the market is ever shrinking for something like this, and for an American made brand, margins are extremely tight. The amount of steel needed in the top plate of a substantial underhung subwoofer is pretty high, making the costs high.

    With the shorter/smaller coil, power handling/thermal limts are more of an issue in today's market of cheap amplifier power where people just want to throw more and more power at their speakers. All of that means, that with the sheer cost of steel rising, and our products being machined here in the USA and USA steel, it would be very costly. The market is also very power to price association driven, meaning most people perceive the price to be dictated by the power handling.

    For example, we know that a sub woofer that has the power handling of an SSA Gcon, but the price tag of an SSA Xcon, is not going to sell very well at all. We could lather it up in snake oil and BS to magically justify the cost through markeneering, but that is not the way we do things.

    Yes, there will be a potential for small improvements on the THD and inductance over a comparatively perceived overhung model, but not enough to make the money work. We do not have a big kitty of cash to play with to try something like that at this time. The power handling could always be offset a little by going with a higher number of layers or slightly taller underhung coil, but that would cause a substantial jump in the top plate steel needs. The bigger the underhung coil, the bigger the gap, the bigger the top plate, the bigger the price, for moderate power handling gains. Hope that explains why the Gcon moved to an overhung design in our business model.


    ---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------



    Quad 16's foo!
    lulz

    :bangshead:



    Stupid Loud.

  6. Likes ciaonzo liked this post
  7. #49
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by denim View Post
    Exactly. It will take a very long time, or heck it may never happen, to get people out of the mindset of just looking at power handling and being so mentally locked into needing to match it to power output rattings of their amplifiers.
    And there's so much more to that line of thinking that serves to penalize that whole bunch. Between the obnoxiously over-normalized (compressed to lifelessness) recordings of today, and keeping the volume knob right at the point of amplifier clipping and being well past the point of having any clean stroke left, they never experience explosive dynamics or just the piece of mind that headroom has to offer.

    I'm just old, too.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  8. #50
    gckless's Avatar
    gckless is offline CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    4,137
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Did someone say XBL?






    Quote Originally Posted by ducatipaso View Post
    15inch subs can't play fast beats, they take more power and that taxes the vehicles electrical system. You will wake up and "hear" then see the light at the end of the tunnel and it will be 3 10's pounding so hard you wont even open your trunk or turn your system on because you 15's will sound sloppy & weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by benbenondatrack View Post
    stfu lesbo.why are you worried about me so much? you must want to date me ya little cookie monster but i dont even like sweets. your just a cup full of ice, dirt dead nasty azz ice...without the water.

    Dat Build Log: http://mobileaudioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?2566-1999-Chevrolet-Blazer&highlight=1999+blazer

  9. #51
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Awwwwwwww, sheeeeeeit. You gon luh demz.

    Give 'em time to come into their own, they need a decent break-in period. They sound great right off, but they sound better as they loosen up.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  10. #52
    gckless's Avatar
    gckless is offline CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    4,137
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    Awwwwwwww, sheeeeeeit. You gon luh demz.

    Give 'em time to come into their own, they need a decent break-in period. They sound great right off, but they sound better as they loosen up.
    Good to know. Kinda figured that given their size. And you run them free air in the doors (doors dampened and sealed of course), right? I had seen that they shine in a really small enclosure and was worried I'd have to build inside the door.



    Quote Originally Posted by ducatipaso View Post
    15inch subs can't play fast beats, they take more power and that taxes the vehicles electrical system. You will wake up and "hear" then see the light at the end of the tunnel and it will be 3 10's pounding so hard you wont even open your trunk or turn your system on because you 15's will sound sloppy & weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by benbenondatrack View Post
    stfu lesbo.why are you worried about me so much? you must want to date me ya little cookie monster but i dont even like sweets. your just a cup full of ice, dirt dead nasty azz ice...without the water.

    Dat Build Log: http://mobileaudioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?2566-1999-Chevrolet-Blazer&highlight=1999+blazer

  11. #53
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by gckless View Post
    Good to know. Kinda figured that given their size. And you run them free air in the doors (doors dampened and sealed of course), right? I had seen that they shine in a really small enclosure and was worried I'd have to build inside the door.
    Yeah, mine are free air. A sealed enclosure certainly has it's merits, and they will do well in that application as well, but it's not necessary.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  12. Thanks gckless thanked for this post
    Likes gckless liked this post
  13. #54
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    I forget who, someone asked if the coil was able to leave the gap. It certainly can and I said I would post a pic of it (hard, lol). The fringe field extends well beyond the physical top plate dimensions, and even though there's less of it and it's comparatively weaker, it doesn't mean it's weak, lol. Take that, plus the current being dumped into the coil, and there's still lots of motor force and it's very easy to propel the coil straight out of the gap. Surprisingly, even at this excursion there is only very mild harmonic distortion being created by the motor, it's mostly the suspension before eventually locking up. Normally underhing designs are not suspension-limited, lol. Beasts, for sure.





    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  14. #55
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    And I'll stop post whoring with these final ass shots.







    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  15. #56
    Ray21's Avatar
    Ray21 is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Rock
    Posts
    786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Beautiful drivers! I have a few XBL subs but have never played around with traditional underhung ones.

    That polished pole vent is like a bleached asshole. lol



    '10 F150 - 3Sixty.2 / MTX 2150x / MTX 275x / Blueprint XBL^2 Subs/ Boston SL80

    REFs: flakko, Naxis2k1, JCJetta, jrgreene1968, NoPh33rRaCiNg, VTECnicalAccord, jadon087, sundownz, lmllopez, Toxic Tuan

  16. #57
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray21 View Post
    That polished pole vent is like a bleached asshole. lol
    lmao

    Does look nice. No peener touch, yet. lol



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  17. #58
    Beatin''s Avatar
    Beatin' is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    986
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    I want to learn more about overhung vs underhung.......



    All day I'm clippin'
    voltage be dippin'
    I don't give a damn,
    cause my trunk always hittin'!

    creating a proper sound wave. Step one, turn it up until clipping. Step two, done.

  18. #59
    denim's Avatar
    denim is offline SSAudio.com



    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SSA HQ East
    Age
    37
    Posts
    28,246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz








    CarAudio.com mod(original)

  19. Thanks ciaonzo thanked for this post
  20. #60
    gckless's Avatar
    gckless is offline CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    4,137
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)

    Re: Underhung TC Nomz

    Quote Originally Posted by denim View Post


    So based on this, underhung/overhung has nothing to do with the actual motor, but only the coil? I hear people all the time saying underhung motor. Not saying it's correct, but I was led to believe it was almost solely based on the motor as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by ducatipaso View Post
    15inch subs can't play fast beats, they take more power and that taxes the vehicles electrical system. You will wake up and "hear" then see the light at the end of the tunnel and it will be 3 10's pounding so hard you wont even open your trunk or turn your system on because you 15's will sound sloppy & weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by benbenondatrack View Post
    stfu lesbo.why are you worried about me so much? you must want to date me ya little cookie monster but i dont even like sweets. your just a cup full of ice, dirt dead nasty azz ice...without the water.

    Dat Build Log: http://mobileaudioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?2566-1999-Chevrolet-Blazer&highlight=1999+blazer

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-05-2012, 09:49 PM
  2. Replies: 47
    Last Post: 10-28-2012, 09:41 PM
  3. TC Sounds Beehive Motor, Neo & underhung Design **Pics**
    By Zeuslicious in forum Miscellaneous Car Audio Classifieds
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-12-2012, 11:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
1e2 Forum