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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    I'm very pleased with my ia flatlyne 18", very musical and clean, not to mention loud...and it's for sale btw





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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    i'll take a ascendant mayhem ,had 2 12's running on a dc 12 at .7 . they were loud as hell and took a great pounding ,played all the lows i wanted and sounded fantastic on my 80's rock to .cant wait to get the new big brother of the mayhem soon .it's a nasty beast




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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trippymane View Post
    Well after spending thousands on tc sounds drivers and falling in love with each 1... to date my favorite subwoofer isn't at all a tc sounds. Don't get me wrong they're some really nice drivers but horribly inefficient. Even the famous lms. Yeah I said it.... I've owned eclipse ti pros to the uberwoofer to some revos and everything in-between. I've had small problems with each and everyone. Nothing major but still when I look back... the only subs I had that I never had any issues with was the ti pro (severely under powered) and the 3hp proto types and my rl-p's. The uberwoofer cone broke around the surrounds. My la x2 the surrounds came unglued. Revo motors kept coming unscrewed. Not to mention the super fragile cones. And again all of them needed more than rated power to shine.... I've had tsns subs no complaints but still needed tons of power to shine. Right now I'm thoroughly impressed with my newest purchase which is a pair of 18" death penalties. Not only was the price great which is also a contributing factor but the output on a saz3k rivals the output of 3 of my rlp or revo 15s. At a higher impedance.... I was afraid they were going to be super peaky woofers and I was going to totally dislike them. I bought them with several doubts. Well after listening to them on 2 ohm for about a week. I am again thoroughly impressed with the bandwidth and the output... again I have them hooked up to 1 saz3k at 2 ohms and they are getting the job done and then some. If you haven't tried a death penalty I suggest you do so.
    No doubt, there is certainly some 'care and feeding' when it comes to particular TC drivers. I have experienced a couple of those same issues you've mentioned. But I've learned from that and chosen the ones that suit me best. I've found them to be more than rugged enough for my needs, but it's true, they don't seem to hold up to abuse all that well. And I'm okay with that. From the start, TC was never about holding up to abuse. They paved the way for high excursion drivers and were all about linearity, dynamics, and the music. You don't get that with 6 ultra-stiff stacked spiders for the sake of throwing 10k at it. You get a driver that sounds lifeless with low level detail and doesn't really come alive until there's gobs of juice being dumped into the coil (coming back to thermal compression).

    There's usually a degree of discipline and compromise involved with all aspects mechanical and electronic devices. You shouldn't just expect to show complete disregard for the limits of anything and then complain that it didn't hold up or it had issues.If glues let go, that's ******, and I've had it happen. Same driver you mentioned, I believe. But if lightweight cones designed for musicality are getting folded from over-excursion or even blatant over-wattage for burps (fuggin stupid anyway), it is obviously on the user for not respecting the limitations and intent of the design.

    I hear you, though. You're right on many of the points you listed. I've had a lead let go and things like that, but those issues aren't unique to TC. It affects many. Regardless of brand, it's just plain awesome to have the feeling that your equipment is going to hold up no matter what. I'm glad you found a brand that suits you. Luckily, I listen in a way that allows me to have that feeling with TC Sounds stuff. Anyway, I'm fuggin babbling. It know it sounds like I'm desperately trying to to defend TC but I'm not, I've been burned by them. I'm really just trying to differentiate the fact that it's always been more of a mismatch between the user and the gear. To TC's advantage, it's what drove many of the advances in some of their products, like the titanium cone and thicker leads, etc... They were responding to the complaints from people who weren't always using the drivers as they were intended.

    The Infinity is a good mention as well, excellent drivers!



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    qpower deluxe 15

    cheap 3" coil driver that sounds good sealed and gets loud



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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fi-brations View Post
    I'm very pleased with my ia flatlyne 18", very musical and clean, not to mention loud...and it's for sale btw
    That the underhung one, or am I thinking different?



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by T3mpest View Post
    It's close.. I liked my AV15h quite a bit... Played well into the midbass with no distortion, works well in small ported boxes, very low.distortion and just "musical".
    Now that's a brand I'd like to try.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  9. #22
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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    No doubt, there is certainly some 'care and feeding' when it comes to particular TC drivers. I have experienced a couple of those same issues you've mentioned. But I've learned from that and chosen the ones that suit me best. I've found them to be more than rugged enough for my needs, but it's true, they don't seem to hold up to abuse all that well. And I'm okay with that. From the start, TC was never about holding up to abuse. They paved the way for high excursion drivers and were all about linearity, dynamics, and the music. You don't get that with 6 ultra-stiff stacked spiders for the sake of throwing 10k at it. You get a driver that sounds lifeless with low level detail and doesn't really come alive until there's gobs of juice being dumped into the coil (coming back to thermal compression).

    There's usually a degree of discipline and compromise involved with all aspects mechanical and electronic devices. You shouldn't just expect to show complete disregard for the limits of anything and then complain that it didn't hold up or it had issues.If glues let go, that's ******, and I've had it happen. Same driver you mentioned, I believe. But if lightweight cones designed for musicality are getting folded from over-excursion or even blatant over-wattage for burps (fuggin stupid anyway), it is obviously on the user for not respecting the limitations and intent of the design.

    I hear you, though. You're right on many of the points you listed. I've had a lead let go and things like that, but those issues aren't unique to TC. It affects many. Regardless of brand, it's just plain awesome to have the feeling that your equipment is going to hold up no matter what. I'm glad you found a brand that suits you. Luckily, I listen in a way that allows me to have that feeling with TC Sounds stuff. Anyway, I'm fuggin babbling. It know it sounds like I'm desperately trying to to defend TC but I'm not, I've been burned by them. I'm really just trying to differentiate the fact that it's always been more of a mismatch between the user and the gear. To TC's advantage, it's what drove many of the advances in some of their products, like the titanium cone and thicker leads, etc... They were responding to the complaints from people who weren't always using the drivers as they were intended.

    The Infinity is a good mention as well, excellent drivers!
    @DANGER RANGER ; that is touching on the soft part thing I was talking about ^^^ like I said on FB I'll post a vid so you can see what I'm talking about when I get back to my laptop




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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    my custom splaudio tc9 subwoofer, that thing hit the lows like no other with a close second my cadence beastmaster by eminence








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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    No doubt, there is certainly some 'care and feeding' when it comes to particular TC drivers. I have experienced a couple of those same issues you've mentioned. But I've learned from that and chosen the ones that suit me best. I've found them to be more than rugged enough for my needs, but it's true, they don't seem to hold up to abuse all that well. And I'm okay with that. From the start, TC was never about holding up to abuse. They paved the way for high excursion drivers and were all about linearity, dynamics, and the music. You don't get that with 6 ultra-stiff stacked spiders for the sake of throwing 10k at it. You get a driver that sounds lifeless with low level detail and doesn't really come alive until there's gobs of juice being dumped into the coil (coming back to thermal compression).

    There's usually a degree of discipline and compromise involved with all aspects mechanical and electronic devices. You shouldn't just expect to show complete disregard for the limits of anything and then complain that it didn't hold up or it had issues.If glues let go, that's ******, and I've had it happen. Same driver you mentioned, I believe. But if lightweight cones designed for musicality are getting folded from over-excursion or even blatant over-wattage for burps (fuggin stupid anyway), it is obviously on the user for not respecting the limitations and intent of the design.

    I hear you, though. You're right on many of the points you listed. I've had a lead let go and things like that, but those issues aren't unique to TC. It affects many. Regardless of brand, it's just plain awesome to have the feeling that your equipment is going to hold up no matter what. I'm glad you found a brand that suits you. Luckily, I listen in a way that allows me to have that feeling with TC Sounds stuff. Anyway, I'm fuggin babbling. It know it sounds like I'm desperately trying to to defend TC but I'm not, I've been burned by them. I'm really just trying to differentiate the fact that it's always been more of a mismatch between the user and the gear. To TC's advantage, it's what drove many of the advances in some of their products, like the titanium cone and thicker leads, etc... They were responding to the complaints from people who weren't always using the drivers as they were intended.

    The Infinity is a good mention as well, excellent drivers!
    I've never thermally damaged any of the tc drivers I've had the pleasure of owning. I wasn't trying to talk down on them either just stating my dislikes and why. Your right when u say tc paved the way of high excursion drivers. And that's exactly what I used them as. I have always used multiple drivers if high output was the design goal. I just believe they didn't remove the finished coating/rough up the edges of cones before the surrounds were set and that's why there was failure there. Then the aluminum cones just fatigued where the surrounds met the cones and so the cones broke right where the surrounds met. I've never folded a cone either. I have however had some with dents in them that just wasn't cosmetically appealing. The cones just arent as forgiving as some pressed paper cones, and that's what I was referring to when I said fragile.
    I still have 3 tc sounds drivers and 2 trf silver top motors in my possession. They are awesome drivers. But for daily listening/use I've found that sometimes paper cones are better....




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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trippymane View Post
    I've never thermally damaged any of the tc drivers I've had the pleasure of owning. I wasn't trying to talk down on them either just stating my dislikes and why. Your right when u say tc paved the way of high excursion drivers. And that's exactly what I used them as. I have always used multiple drivers if high output was the design goal. I just believe they didn't remove the finished coating/rough up the edges of cones before the surrounds were set and that's why there was failure there. Then the aluminum cones just fatigued where the surrounds met the cones and so the cones broke right where the surrounds met. I've never folded a cone either. I have however had some with dents in them that just wasn't cosmetically appealing. The cones just arent as forgiving as some pressed paper cones, and that's what I was referring to when I said fragile.
    I still have 3 tc sounds drivers and 2 trf silver top motors in my possession. They are awesome drivers. But for daily listening/use I've found that sometimes paper cones are better....
    Can't argue any of that. They knew about that fatigue near the surround/rim of the cone, too. Early problems. It happens because the surround pulls right tight and the flex goes into that rim, it's thin there. After the failures, they began putting a bead of epoxy around the perimeter to prevent that (I believe that's why I'm still enjoying my LMS), and eventually the redesigned cones.

    For what it's worth, I have paper cones with rubber surrounds on standby, lol. Those protos with the paper cones take a beating quite well.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    That the underhung one, or am I thinking different?
    yes sir, underhung motor





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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fi-brations View Post
    yes sir, underhung motor
    Sweet. Someone should definitely snag that.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    Can't argue any of that. They knew about that fatigue near the surround/rim of the cone, too. Early problems. It happens because the surround pulls right tight and the flex goes into that rim, it's thin there. After the failures, they began putting a bead of epoxy around the perimeter to prevent that (I believe that's why I'm still enjoying my LMS), and eventually the redesigned cones.

    For what it's worth, I have paper cones with rubber surrounds on standby, lol. Those protos with the paper cones take a beating quite well.
    You have or still do own some tc protos I owned then sold to Phil btw. I know they can take some some abuse I had quite a few... I've also had a pair of the old school Orion hccas that used those cones and surrounds.
    All I was saying is I picked up a pair of incriminator audio dp's for $460 with an enclosure and for the money they sound good and get decently loud off 1000-1500 watts.




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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    Quote Originally Posted by raptor727 View Post
    I like my FI BTL N2 18 very musical for a 18 and hits all my decaf music nicely and gets low and stays clean doing it
    I loved my fi btl n2 12. Wish I hadnt sold it. Was musical, got loud on low power, looked hot as fuck inverted, and didn't mind being in a small box.



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    Re: What's Your Favorite sub & and Why? 1 Per Person...

    my american bass tnt 12. had it for 3 years now and it has never disappointed me no matter what application i use it in.



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