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    jcmuse's Avatar
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    System sounds better with sub turned off

    Hi all,

    See sig for build details. This is in a sonata 2011. No dampening.

    I'm finding i like the sound with the sub turned off better. Bass is much much cleaner/crisp. With the sub on, i find the lows too muddy and distant. Kills the soundstage. Very fatiguing since the car is shaking.

    Did i go to cheap on the sub? I almost find that the lows from the hertz are enough for me -- maybe a tiny bit lacking. Maybe i can fill in what i'm looking for in the rears?

    Shame i spent all this money on the sub+enclosure and i'm not happy with it



    Kenwood XR-4S 1200W, Hertz ESK 165s fronts, stock rears (not running), ssa dcon 10" sub (sealed), Kenwood ddx616 headunit




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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    What I think is happening, is that you are so used to midbass, you don't know what bass/sub bass really is.

    You perceive that the hertz's play low enough for you, but in reality are only playing down to 100, maybe 80 hz. You are also hearing things in your music that you never knew were there before having a sub.

    Damping and acoustical treatments in the car can also help greatly with your experience.



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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    It could also be the enclosure. Perhaps it is to large for the desired response curve you are personally after. I agree with CHEMMINS as well as he made some very good points.

    However, if you do like the sub stage, just not the sound reproduced then there are a few things that could be going on.

    1. Enclosure issues
    2. Amplifier setting issues
    3. Have to wait and see what happens with 1 and 2 first...then move one to other things to check.




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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    Lows being muddy and distant could be a phasing issue




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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    you need to tune your sub output firstly so that it doesn't overpower the mids so much. then it's a matter of what freq the sub is peaking at, and that you can either eq if you had a 30 band eq, or get a better box that will not peak as much.




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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    your sub could just be playing to high and are interfering with your mids.

    try lowering the lowpass on the amp, turn the subsonic filter off and make sure the high pass on the mid is set to say 80hz.

    you may need to do something so simple it's stupid like switching the positive and negative to change the phasing.

    your sealed box if it isnt large enough will have trouble with low bass, then again if its too large the bass will sound muddy



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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    First and foremost, sounds like the sub is up too loud.. Turn the gain down.. You should hear it blend if you take it low enough.. Basic rule of thumb for a sub and SQ, if you can tell it's playing, it's playing too loudly.. The only time you should notice the subwoofer is if you turn it all the way off, then you'll hear the difference.. So turn it down until you can just barely notice that it's on..

    Second thing to do is address the rattles. A sub can sound like crap if your hearing the panels the sub is vibrating more than the sub itself. No point in getting a nice sub if you wont' deaden. It's amazing to me how many people try to use a SQ sub without deadener.

    Third, what is your lpf and hpf on your subs and mids?

    Last thing I'd ask you is do you have access to time alignment? If not, try swapping polarity on the subwoofer and see if that helps, or change the subs orientation, face it different directions..

    If you can answer/ fix these issues/questions we (I) can probably help you.



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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    Phasing sounds like the perpetrator here Or amplifier settings, or cheap subs, or too large of an enclosure, or the fact that you've never had an exaggerated sub-stage? If that narrows it down at all :P



    Subs: 2 RE Audio SE 12's
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    Fronts: Digital Designs DDCX 6x9's
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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    Thanks guys, that's good advice. The sub is sealed in the recommended size enclosure. I had it done by sqr



    Kenwood XR-4S 1200W, Hertz ESK 165s fronts, stock rears (not running), ssa dcon 10" sub (sealed), Kenwood ddx616 headunit

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    Re: System sounds better with sub turned off

    sub placement is key. try it in the rear corner of the vehicle. keep the level low, just low enough that you can tell a difference on vs. off but not so much you can locate it.

    the ESK should be good down to 60Hz or so. try a LPF on the sub amp at 70Hz or so, and 70Hz high pass on the speakers.

    make sure phase is correct, but phase is relative to the listening position.



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