w7= poop...

[boomzabit]

Build a correct box for the W7 and get a halfway decent amp.. Youll be happy. If you want to get a BTL start looking at a bigger alt and a dry cell right now.

[The_Grimy_One]

Thats my point. My subs are underneath my rear seats. My friends enjoy my music in my truck and they like it loud. They enjoy my stereo. They enjoy it much more now that they can hear highs and mids. My components are aimed pretty well. They were re adjusted probably about 4 times to achieve what I was doing specifically for my rear passengers, not for me as a driver



You just contradicted yourself. 3 ways are better, but less speakers the better? So one 5.5" speaker is better than any other setup in a car?

No, You sir have 2 sets of mids and 2 sets of tweets. In a high end SQ build, you would only have one set of mids, one set of midranges, and one set of tweets. That is less speakers! I didnt know it was hard for you to count. Some people throw in a bunch of speakers, just because its loud, which this causes a lot of phase issues and interference, resulting in a not so SQ set up. That is fine that you have a truck full of people and they love your Focals, etc etc etc. All I was saying is that you dont NEED a rear stage, it does not make or break your system. All it is for is for your rear passengers to have a higher level of volume. It does not make it any CLEARER, it makes it LOUDER for your passengers, simple as that. Some of the best SQ builds only utilize a 2-way component set up front, which of course it is usual an active set up, and much time is put into the positioning of the speaker. That is what I mean by less is better.

[Trancer]

No, You sir have 2 sets of mids and 2 sets of tweets. In a high end SQ build, you would only have one set of mids, one set of midranges, and one set of tweets. That is less speakers! I didnt know it was hard for you to count. Some people throw in a bunch of speakers, just because its loud, which this causes a lot of phase issues and interference, resulting in a not so SQ set up. That is fine that you have a truck full of people and they love your Focals, etc etc etc. All I was saying is that you dont NEED a rear stage, it does not make or break your system. All it is for is for your rear passengers to have a higher level of volume. It does not make it any CLEARER, it makes it LOUDER for your passengers, simple as that. Some of the best SQ builds only utilize a 2-way component set up front, which of course it is usual an active set up, and much time is put into the positioning of the speaker. That is what I mean by less is better.

Please dont ever insult my intelligence again.

Since we were getting so technical with our wording here, I figured I would get just as technical as you. I said "I" need rear fill, you said "I" as a driver don't. I meant my application; rear passengers. You simply said less speakers = better sound. Don't try to bash someone by getting technical with your wording, if you cant respond technically back. I knew what you were meaning fyi

My point of this entire conversation is that it still amazes me that whens some noob hears the phrase "rear fill," that noob automatically goes, "Noooo! No rear fill! blah blah blah." when said noob doesnt understand, nor does know the application. All this stands from people reading about real fill on the internet and translates it into, OMG Bad. Said "noob" thinks that rear fill is awalys bad and that there are no applications that rear fill is applicable.

[#45]

hell i got a W6 on 1200 watts for some 6 or so months. i'm sure the W7 would normally do fine on 1000w so its gotta be something other than that.

[supermaxx123]

I agree that rear fill is for someone who sits in the back. SQ is too broad a word. Most people have their subwoofer set +3db or more apart from say the front stage which I will admit is fun at times, but causes drowning out, that to me is not sq. SQ is when your speakers are all equally loud depending on what recording your playing. Recording has the biggest effect on bass, and that is why I feel epicenters are for people who like bass, because if a song doesn't get "loud" maybe it wasn't meant to.

As far as rear fill, It's mostly up to the user, takes more power, speakers, wires etc, but does benefit the people sitting in the back. As far as someone sitting alone in the front with rear fill, seems like it would just take away from the imaging which most people do not care about or notice. There really is no right or wrong with rear fill, I personally ditch it.

[Buck]

Both SQ and SPL is overrated. Do what you like.

[Bumpin' Goalie]

Both SQ and SPL is overrated. Do what you like.

I like esque.

[FtheNutHuggers]

No, You sir have 2 sets of mids and 2 sets of tweets. In a high end SQ build, you would only have one set of mids, one set of midranges, and one set of tweets. That is less speakers! I didnt know it was hard for you to count. Some people throw in a bunch of speakers, just because its loud, which this causes a lot of phase issues and interference, resulting in a not so SQ set up. That is fine that you have a truck full of people and they love your Focals, etc etc etc. All I was saying is that you dont NEED a rear stage, it does not make or break your system. All it is for is for your rear passengers to have a higher level of volume. It does not make it any CLEARER, it makes it LOUDER for your passengers, simple as that. Some of the best SQ builds only utilize a 2-way component set up front, which of course it is usual an active set up, and much time is put into the positioning of the speaker. That is what I mean by less is better.

You sir have either been fed a very large spoonful of T!H$ and immediately thereafter hypnotized to believe it was candy you were to slosh around and relish until you licked your teeth clean......OR you sat in a few "SQ cars" that happened to have 3way front setups and also happened to score high on the completely subjective tests administered by few that would be "qualified" by true audiophile standards.

Since you love to argue, please share with us your empirical data that undeniably proves that a 3way front stage in a car or home or studio is the only way to reach "high end" status.

[Phoenix Risen]

[FtheNutHuggers]

OP: Do you want to experience the best that W7 can do in your vehicle, designed to do exactly what you want it to do? Or do you want to toss it aside, knowing that you never gave it a fair chance? You have a subwoofer that can do many things very well (i wont credit that to intentional design). If you want to try and make it shine, then give it the enclosure that is designed specifically to reach your target response in that very vehicle using that amount of power.

[cotjones]

Wow this thread is full of fail. This forum has gone downhill considerably.

[cotjones]

double post

[audioholic]

You sir have either been fed a very large spoonful of T!H$ and immediately thereafter hypnotized to believe it was candy you were to slosh around and relish until you licked your teeth clean......OR you sat in a few "SQ cars" that happened to have 3way front setups and also happened to score high on the completely subjective tests administered by few that would be "qualified" by true audiophile standards.

Since you love to argue, please share with us your empirical data that undeniably proves that a 3way front stage in a car or home or studio is the only way to reach "high end" status.

I wouldn't say you must have a 3-way front stage to reach high end status, but I would say its a tried, tested and proven method, when implemented correctly, to achieve a high quality front sound stage.

The reasoning:

First, frequency response versus path length differences. Ideally, all path lengths from your speakers to your ears are equal. This never happens however (in a car), so we compromise. Car audio mids are designed to run infinite baffle (because most are mounted in doors, which are IB). If you place them in small sealed enclosures in the kick panels, low frequency response will be negatively affected (less midbass). But if you place your 2-way mids in the doors for better low-end response, the path length differences are much greater. This can be accounted for with time alignment, but that can cause its own problems (like relative phase differences). Another possible solution is to run your 2-ways in the kicks, but vent/port them to boost low frequency response, or build an aperiodic membrane enclosure for them venting out through the sheetmetal behind the kicks. Unfortunately, both these methods are a bit too complicated for the average enthusiast to do, and do right. This does not mean all 2-ways sound bad, it simply means they generally require more work to sound as good as a well implemented 3-way.

The 'sweet spot' in human hearing, where it is most sensitive, is in the midrange. So the logical conclusion is run a 3-way, with mids playing midrange, in your kicks, and dedicated midbass drivers in your doors. Midbass is much harder to perceive point sourcing than is midrange, so the path length differences of your midbass drivers in the doors is not nearly as critical as with the midrange.

Secondly, talk to just about any well versed SQ guy and he'll attest to the fact that midbass generally sounds better when the passenger side midbass driver is wired out of phase with the rest of the system. With a 3-way setup, the midbass and midrange are separate drivers, do you can control the phase of your midbass independent to the midrange (because midrange should not be wired out of phase). Ive known some SQ competitors that have run 3-ways for no other reason that to give them control over phase of the midbass without affecting phase of the midrange.

But to answer the seeming contradictory nature of saying less speakers is better, but a 3-way is usually better than a 2-way is... yes, ideally we would only need 2 speakers, run full-range, that adequately produce 20ha-20khz, both sat in front of you, equal distance from the listener. But human technology will not allow such a speaker to exist, and car interiors wont allow you to place them where they'd need to be for ideal performance.

Hope that clears up this debate, and gets the thread back on topic. No need to angry at each other guys, we all have the same love for the same hobby here. Be patient with each other, its not always easy to properly express respect or meaning via text on a computer.