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Reload Thread: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    OP have a hidden agenda???

    My experience: burps are louder with a fresh recone, lows become more prominent after a decent amount of playing time. Same as what others have said.

    I run HDC's which have a pretty stiff suspension, so it makes sense that as they loosen up you gain excursion which makes the lows more prominent. Louder to the ear, but not on the meter.

    The copper HDC's I've installed for people require a "break in" period for the spider pack to take a proper set. If not the sub can make noise for a while until they do take a set. I've seen guys beat on them right away with no issues and I've seen 1 or 2 have noise for a while. I always break mine in overnight on low volume and then beat on them the next day and have never had an issue.







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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    I agree. If the sub has an extremely tight suspension to begin with, I break it in a while before trying to pound the lows hard.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    Unless you are doing strict SPL, who the fuck cares? Just play your bass and be happy.
    Agree.



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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by hispls View Post
    Looks to me like playing a speaker while it is heated up makes more of a change than anything. We can safely say that prolonged hard play will change the performance of a speaker (possibly noticeably?) until it cools down.

    The "before" and "after" break in TSPs look within a couple percent of eachother. As I said before I suspect most woofers right off the assmbly line have more varience.
    It depends on what the drivers soft parts, and more importantly the suspension, is made of. For instance, drivers with a rubber surround will have larger changes in Cms during hot and cold weather than drivers with a foam surround. I've measured a change in Fs from 34 Hz fresh out of the box to 29 Hz after 6 months of a thorough break in and also being outside in a hot vehicle on our 15" Obsidian subwoofer.

    Even though Paul's test did not show this, when a speaker is played for a while the voice coil temperature increases which increases Re. The rise in Re means you are actually getting less power into the speaker. So if you're getting ready to go into the SPL lanes by all means do not demo your car to other people.



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  5. #35
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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by outsideshot23 View Post
    like i said.. this is obviously just a hobby for you.. got to finals.. its an all out recone night the night before.. guys are not going to recone 8 perfectly working subs to lose in the lanes.. guys do THOUSANDS of hours testing in a year .. they know whats louder.. new subs... you learned something today
    This isn't terribly objective nor does it show any data. I'm looking for numbers and percentages here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chriszle View Post
    When a sub with a stiff suspension breaks in it will play lower. Naturally, this will sound louder to the ear, but show up as a loss on the meter. Ear loudness and SPL are two different beasts.
    Really? The only actual numbers I've seen for pre and post "break in" show 3 or 4% varience in TSPs. If we can't measure the difference with an RTA it's bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by outsideshot23 View Post
    Dont need eveidence..compete for awhile and you will know.. MOST of the time subs will get quieter as they break in.. hence the reason 90% of competitors are reconing their **** the night before finals.. but it is setup specific.. Some setups WILL gain .. but 90% of people think they are going to get louder and thats just wrong... most of the time they are getting quieter as far as the meter is concerned...........
    This isn't terribly objective either. Is there another explanation why they do big shows with fresh recones (say eliminating the possibility of failure due to prolonged abuse prior?). If it were merely to stiffen the suspension again, why wouldn't you just start out with a stiffer suspension than you have and "break it in" until it was perfect for finals?


    Quote Originally Posted by CHEMMINS View Post
    As with anything that moves.....It will change from new. Things will settle where they need to be. Same as an engine, you need to break it in for a short period (20 mins) before you go full throttle. Shiat has to move/shift/align properly before being tortured.
    Well that's not terribly objective either.

    Quote Originally Posted by outsideshot23 View Post
    not if your trying to set a world record... think about it,.. why is **** louder when its cold.. efficiency has a little to do with it but its because its stiff.. like a new sub.. break it in and you lose
    Lose how much? Where is the data?

    Quote Originally Posted by outsideshot23 View Post
    hit it on the head... also the reason other guy says it drains his electrical more.. play 70 hz and play 30 see which one drains more.. lower tuning=harder on electrical
    SO every amp is less efficient at lower frequencies? I'd LOVE to see the actual measured data to back this one up.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHEMMINS View Post
    Well seeing as we derailed this thread with trying to get every last tenth out of a sub, to get back to the OP's question of if things change....obviously they do.
    Do they change significantly, and if so, how, is the question? EVERYONE is still chiming in here how "everone knows" and "I hear this or that" but NOBODY has posted any numbers proving much of anythign besides my original ascertation that things really don't change more than a few percent.




  6. #36
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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlstrass View Post
    OP have a hidden agenda???
    Trying to play mythbusters here and dispell some of the bullshit that's slung around these forums. Or if there's some evidence to back up the "break in" theory I would honestly like to know what PRECISELY changes and what differences in measureable performance we can actually expect (would be useful don'tcha think?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mlstrass View Post
    My experience: burps are louder with a fresh recone, lows become more prominent after a decent amount of playing time. Same as what others have said.
    I run HDC's which have a pretty stiff suspension, so it makes sense that as they loosen up you gain excursion which makes the lows more prominent. Louder to the ear, but not on the meter.

    The copper HDC's I've installed for people require a "break in" period for the spider pack to take a proper set. If not the sub can make noise for a while until they do take a set. I've seen guys beat on them right away with no issues and I've seen 1 or 2 have noise for a while. I always break mine in overnight on low volume and then beat on them the next day and have never had an issue.
    OK, so how many dB's is that? How many cycles did your FS change? I've read dozens of threads about AQ subs failing at the tripple joint, and regardless of how long the user has been running them "at low power" it's always chalked up to "you didn't break it in enough" B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T!


    Quote Originally Posted by Chriszle View Post
    I agree. If the sub has an extremely tight suspension to begin with, I break it in a while before trying to pound the lows hard.
    Based on what facts or data?

    Quote Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
    It depends on what the drivers soft parts, and more importantly the suspension, is made of. For instance, drivers with a rubber surround will have larger changes in Cms during hot and cold weather than drivers with a foam surround. I've measured a change in Fs from 34 Hz fresh out of the box to 29 Hz after 6 months of a thorough break in and also being outside in a hot vehicle on our 15" Obsidian subwoofer.

    Even though Paul's test did not show this, when a speaker is played for a while the voice coil temperature increases which increases Re. The rise in Re means you are actually getting less power into the speaker. So if you're getting ready to go into the SPL lanes by all means do not demo your car to other people.
    I can definitely believe changes in temperature causing some varience. Thanks for actually being the only one to post up real data. Would really like to either put this myth to rest if we can't get any scientific data to back it up.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Well a local shop is running 4 DD 15s ( the new Z with the 4 inch coils). I did not ask to see their termlab results. He said when they dropped them in the vehicle was peaking at 46 hz, and after 2 weeks of break in it was peaking at 42 hz (it has been a few weeks since I was up there but I believe it was around ~159.6 @ 42 hz). I don't really see why he would lie to me, he has no hidden agenda, wasn't selling me anything, we were just chatting.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by hispls View Post
    .....Would really like to either put this myth to rest if we can't get any scientific data to back it up.

    Then get off your fat azz and do some fawking testing on your own. You are the same as most on here just looking for handouts, and when ya don't get what ya want, you biotch about it. Either shiat of get off the pot already.



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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    @hispls

    Dude, get off his nuts (electrodynamics). He didn't post any real data like all the others in this thread. I'm not saying I disagree with him but you seem to be eating his words and making them as data when its just words.



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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chriszle View Post
    Well a local shop is running 4 DD 15s ( the new Z with the 4 inch coils). I did not ask to see their termlab results. He said when they dropped them in the vehicle was peaking at 46 hz, and after 2 weeks of break in it was peaking at 42 hz (it has been a few weeks since I was up there but I believe it was around ~159.6 @ 42 hz). I don't really see why he would lie to me, he has no hidden agenda, wasn't selling me anything, we were just chatting.
    Keeping in mind what Electrodynamic has posted, could this be chalked up to warmer outside temperature? I've noticed my freq goes up or down by a couple cycles and one or two tenths of a db seemingly at random (I chalk it up to temperature and atmospheric conditions).

    For all those that care to join me in pulling TS parameters on new subs, please record temperature of the room for each set of measurements since coming up into summer three weeks from now we're likely to have 10-20 degree warmer days than now.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Well, he chalked it up to the suspension loosening up. He also said, they are still stiff as fu.ck, and have a ways to go before they are fully loosened up. He is also a top 3 competitor at midwest SPL nationals in several classes over the past few years, so I will take his word on it.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHEMMINS View Post
    Then get off your fat azz and do some fawking testing on your own. You are the same as most on here just looking for handouts, and when ya don't get what ya want, you biotch about it. Either shiat of get off the pot already.
    Implying you did said testing and are just hiding all the data you collected?

    I've seen data from a few tests now and maintain that "breaking in" is bullshit. I plan to do my own testing and post it here, (actually I have a sub that I can post results on this weekend now that I think about it). The whole "breaking in" thing is so much Dr. Subwoofer logic without any data to back it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by slim2fattycake View Post
    @hispls

    Dude, get off his nuts (electrodynamics). He didn't post any real data like all the others in this thread. I'm not saying I disagree with him but you seem to be eating his words and making them as data when its just words.
    He posted the Paul Roth test which is the ONLY actual measurements for new speaker, hot speaker, and "broken in" speaker, and also actual measurements of varience of hot and cold speaker. Someone else post some NUMBERS and I'll bestow beatitudes on their data as well.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    I have metered subs fresh and broken in on multiple set ups. An altima I did gained .7 db after about an hour then letting sit for an hour. The biggest difference was it hit at a lower note. Most of the time I only see up to .2 difference if any,they usually just hit lower tones




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chriszle View Post
    Well, he chalked it up to the suspension loosening up. He also said, they are still stiff as fu.ck, and have a ways to go before they are fully loosened up. He is also a top 3 competitor at midwest SPL nationals in several classes over the past few years, so I will take his word on it.
    It SEEMS reasonable and intuitive, but so do a lot of car audio myths. A drop of over 10% in FS is significant indeed and if it's something we can quantify and is repeatable it would be quite useful to know.

    15 years ago the conventional wisdom was that sealed boxes were the loudest.... Someone needs to question the status quo.




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    Re: Calling BS on "breaking in" subwoofers, prove me wrong.

    Well I would suggest running your tests on something with an extremely stiff suspension because as I believe that is where you will see the most change. The Paul Roth test states explicitly that the suspension is soft making it useless in this debate.




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