Closed Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55

Reload Thread: Show Me A TC-9+

  1. #1
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental



    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Show Me A TC-9+

    I'm very familiar with the TC-9 motors using .75" slugs and 1" slugs but I've heard a few people mention this mysterious TC-9+. I have never seen anything on TC's website (new and old) that mentions a TC-9+.

    For a reference, a TC-9 with two .75" slugs would obviously have 1.5" of magnet height and a TC-9 with two 1" slugs would have 2". The 3HP has 2.25" and the 3HP+ (aka 3LM) has 3". Where would the so-called TC-9+ fit in?

    Is this a misnomer? Please show me what you think it is.
    Last edited by ciaonzo; 10-27-2009 at 02:34 AM.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.




  2. #2
    infamous_e46's Avatar
    infamous_e46 is offline hArRy_DaNgLeRs



    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    HaTeRs On My dlcK LiKe A JeAn ZiPpEr
    Posts
    25,916
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    probably people bullshittin tryin to charge more for a fukcin tc9



    Quote Originally Posted by RyanM923 View Post
    Damn, look at that midget ***...love me a midget ***. 3 foot 4 standing up, 3 foot 6 sitting down.
    Quote Originally Posted by michaellane View Post
    don dont come in here ruining my thread. i hate you and jose

    www.alphadamp.com
    Got Mad Feedback Son http://www.caraudio.com/forums/buyer-seller-feedback/364675-infamous_e46s-feedback-thread.html#post5697823

  3. #3
    Toxic Tuan's Avatar
    Toxic Tuan is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    1,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    I can't recall the TC9+....only remember the TC2+.



    Just got back in the industry ! I sure miss car Audio
    Car Audio Tutor
    2006 DBDRAG World Champion St. A
    2009 Who says a Ported Enclosure can't get a Perfect Score in SQ, IASCA Finals.

  4. #4
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Quote Originally Posted by infamous_e46 View Post
    probably people bullshittin tryin to charge more for a fukcin tc9
    Man, that dint rhyme at all. You slippin'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic Tuan View Post
    I can't recall the TC9+....only remember the TC2+.
    Thanks, Tuan.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  5. #5
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    I'm going to go with the assumption that people are calling the TC-9 with 1" slugs a TC-9+ since the early version only had .75" slugs. I would love to be wrong about that and find out about a motor that I haven't seen.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  6. #6
    negative3five's Avatar
    negative3five is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    TC9+ is also known as a LMT TC9 or a LMS TC9 thier a TC9 with a LMS coil like the old eclipses and the new Audiopulse TC9 LMS. Just a TC9 with a copper shorting ring and a bigger gap for the coil thiers alotta pics of them on here someone had one forsale for awhile on here.




  7. #7
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Quote Originally Posted by negative3five View Post
    TC9+ is also known as a LMT TC9 or a LMS TC9 thier a TC9 with a LMS coil like the old eclipses and the new Audiopulse TC9 LMS. Just a TC9 with a copper shorting ring and a bigger gap for the coil thiers alotta pics of them on here someone had one forsale for awhile on here.
    Was it me? I'm selling one, lol. Anyway, you might have something there. Maybe the + signifies the addition of a shorting ring.

    I've also heard that the gap is bigger for the LMS version but it simply isn't true. I own the TC/Audiopulse version, the Eclipse version, and the 4000 model. The gap width is the same for all of them and it's the same as the gap width for a REVO, TC OEM 10, TC-2000, etc... they all use a TC-9 (except the 4000, obviously) but the OEM 10 doesn't have a shorting ring. The LMS coil is not any wider than the coil used for a REVO, OEM 12, OEM 12, and so on. There's actually less material in the middle section of an LMS coil which is why the sensitivity is lower. This is a pic of REVO coil on an LMS coil.


    Last edited by ciaonzo; 10-29-2009 at 12:01 PM.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  8. #8
    negative3five's Avatar
    negative3five is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Yea I just seen you were the one with the Eclipse 10 for sale someone else has a AP Revo with a LMS coil for sale also well it might of been a month ago. Thiers alot of TC9's they had the .75 dual slug motors, the 1" dual slug motors, .7f triple slug motors, TC9 with a copper sleeve, Tc9 with a aluminum shorting ring in the magnets, the under hung TC9 like on the Audiomobile Mass then you have that motor with a copper sleve on it. Thiers alot of them out thier and I'm pretty sure some had the copper sleeve with the aluminum shorting ring inside the magnets also. I always thought the coils were bigger guess only on the protos and originals they were bigger but the TC9 has a huge gap to begin with so maybe thats the reason thier the same size coils. It's a hell of a motor tho alot of subwoofer companys have used them all with alittle changes.




  9. #9
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Quote Originally Posted by negative3five View Post
    Yea I just seen you were the one with the Eclipse 10 for sale someone else has a AP Revo with a LMS coil for sale also well it might of been a month ago. Thiers alot of TC9's they had the .75 dual slug motors, the 1" dual slug motors, .7f triple slug motors, TC9 with a copper sleeve, Tc9 with a aluminum shorting ring in the magnets, the under hung TC9 like on the Audiomobile Mass then you have that motor with a copper sleve on it. Thiers alot of them out thier and I'm pretty sure some had the copper sleeve with the aluminum shorting ring inside the magnets also. I always thought the coils were bigger guess only on the protos and originals they were bigger but the TC9 has a huge gap to begin with so maybe thats the reason thier the same size coils. It's a hell of a motor tho alot of subwoofer companys have used them all with alittle changes.
    Hmm... A REVO with an LMS coil? It wouldn't be a REVO anymore then.

    It seems there's a lot of confusion about what a TC-9 really is so let's see if we can agree on a couple of things to help get a standard going. It would be great if Kyle or Thilo would stop by and put us all in line but we'll do our best without them .

    For me, a TC-9 is obviously a 3" coil motor. It has either two .75" slugs or two 1" slugs, measuring 1.5" and 2", respectively. It has a top plate with a thickness of 12mm and a gap of approximately 6mm (5mm for early versions with .75" slugs). It may or may not have a shorting ring in it and it can be copper or aluminum, the location and task is the same for either. Essentially, we're describing an available strength of flux and the geometry of it.

    In my eyes, once you move to three .75" slugs (2.25" thick), you have changed the available amount of flux, making it different from the versions I just highlighted. In addition, most will identify the three .75" slugs as a 3HP since it's widely used on the Storm, Ti, AXIS, and so on.

    I also never understood why people describe the MASS motor as being a TC-9. It has only a single 1" slug and a huge amount of top plate for that one slug to try and saturate, along with a gap much wider than the usual 6mm for a TC-9 even when measured from the ID of the copper sleeve (for that version) to the OD of the T-yoke. This is to accommodate an 8 layer, round wire coil, which helps raise BL product and power handling. In fact, the T-yoke is the only part that the two motors share. The flux pattern and strength is completely different.

    So far;

    2" thick magnet = TC-9

    2.25" thick magnet = 3HP

    3" thick magnet = 3HP+

    I'm hoping if I'm wrong, this conversation will flesh out the finer details as to why. Really hoping the designers will chime in.
    Last edited by ciaonzo; 10-29-2009 at 02:29 PM.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  10. #10
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    BTW, negative3five, you are helping. I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative. I just want to discuss each little detail and see what happens.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  11. #11
    negative3five's Avatar
    negative3five is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    You can't call a triple slug TC9 a 3HP because you have to take into account that the magnet slugs have a different OD then the TC9 slugs. The 3HP is slighty bigger then the TC9 and thier for just isn't the same. Number of slugs is the only thing that they share really. Check parts express the LMS Revo is listed on thier and if you talk with Thilo it's also listed to come out with thier new line of woofers also which still makes it a REVO/TC9. But thats just my views on it some might argue but to me the 3HP and TC9 triple slug are totally different T yoke, Top Plate, and Slug outer diameter...Def not comin off argumentive But I think alot of people would argue the TC9 triple slug = 3hp. Also the 3hp+ has 4 slugs instead of 3 like on the normal 3hp to acomodate (SP) the longer coil.




  12. #12
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Quote Originally Posted by negative3five View Post
    You can't call a triple slug TC9 a 3HP because you have to take into account that the magnet slugs have a different OD then the TC9 slugs. The 3HP is slighty bigger then the TC9 and thier for just isn't the same. Number of slugs is the only thing that they share really. Check parts express the LMS Revo is listed on thier and if you talk with Thilo it's also listed to come out with thier new line of woofers also which still makes it a REVO/TC9. But thats just my views on it some might argue but to me the 3HP and TC9 triple slug are totally different T yoke, Top Plate, and Slug outer diameter...Def not comin off argumentive But I think alot of people would argue the TC9 triple slug = 3hp. Also the 3hp+ has 4 slugs instead of 3 like on the normal 3hp to acomodate (SP) the longer coil.
    Again, I'll have to kindly disagree with you on various points. The first being, the measurement for the OD on the slugs of a 3HP and a TC-9. They're the same, approximately 7.5" in diameter. I'll have some photos up a bit later to help others see what we're discussing.

    Second, I just checked PE and didn't come up with any listing for a REVO LMS. Only one at the moment is the 10" LMS which uses a TC-9. A REVO is a REVO because of the coil it uses in conjunction with a TC-9, same goes for the LMS. They have very different BL, sensitivity, power handling, suspension, etc... However, I have heard the same talk of an LMS REVO but I'm assuming it would just be the same thing as is currently offered; a TC-9 based LMS driver.

    Last, would be the idea that the need for the fourth slug in the 3HP is needed for a longer coil. The coil used in the TC-9 LMS and the LMS 4000 are identical in every way, all measurements. I have verified 3+" of excursion in the TC-9 version (1" slugs) without bottoming the coil. In fact, the extra slug is to help offset the low sensitivity and lower the Qes/Qts by raising B product.
    Last edited by ciaonzo; 11-01-2009 at 11:41 AM.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  13. #13
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    With so many versions of the TC-9 and 3HP, it's hard to decide whether it's the top plate/T-yoke or the amount of magnet height that determines the nomenclature.

    I'll have some pictures up soon.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  14. #14
    bose301s's Avatar
    bose301s is offline I can break these cuffs



    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Age
    27
    Posts
    5,926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Cianzo, you're such a TC whore



    http://www.klippel.de/download/Nonlin/Klippel_nonlinearity_poster.jpg

    Car System:
    Stock for now

  15. #15
    ciaonzo's Avatar
    ciaonzo is offline TheContinental

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WI
    Age
    39
    Posts
    9,183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Show Me A TC-9+

    Quote Originally Posted by bose301s View Post
    Cianzo, you're such a TC whore
    I am.

    And it's ciaonzo. Ciao Enzo, sounds like chow-enzo, means goodbye Enzo.

    It's silly, sappy story and not applicable, so don't ask.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts

1e2 Forum