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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    May just be listening to the wrong songs, working on mostly Youtube downloads and some small Soundcloud artists. Simple ported box, 3/4 MDF, caulked and all that, no brace though(don't think this needs it at these sound levels).
    Is a higher Fs in the 40s needed to take care of midbass? Deaden trunk? Running the same 80hz 24 crossover. Might just not be listening to songs with the correct db level of midbass, and have no EQ to correct. Are you running a 30-40hz tuned box? Thinking about going bass reflex/light horn box on the next one. I know I don't have the space to even T-line a 8".







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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraclem19 View Post
    May just be listening to the wrong songs, working on mostly Youtube downloads and some small Soundcloud artists.
    There is a major problem. YouTube? Streaming music? No wonder your system sounds like......

    Is a higher Fs in the 40s needed to take care of midbass? Deaden trunk? Running the same 80hz 24 crossover. Might just not be listening to songs with the correct db level of midbass, and have no EQ to correct. Are you running a 30-40hz tuned box? Thinking about going bass reflex/light horn box on the next one. I know I don't have the space to even T-line a 8".
    Bro, midbass is achieved with door speakers, not subwoofers...... 40hz isn't in the midbass region, that's sub level....
    Midbass is 80hz up to somewhere around 300hz (i'm estimating).
    So you need to get a set of components that can handle this range with authority, along with properly tuning them to play this range.

    As mentioned by @zako ;, a pair of 6X9s will take care if this considerimg cone area. Also consider power handling. A bit of power for midbass pays off.

    Proper installation and tuning will be the deciding factor in how they will sound.



    "When I listen to a stereo loudspeaker playback in my room and an auditory scene has formed in my mind, how would I know that what I hear is an accurate replica of an auditory scene that could be had at the recording venue? Or more generally, that this is an auditory scene that could have existed at all?"


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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
    I still don't understand why you can't get any midbass out of your subwoofer. I think if you changed your sub or the box you would have so much kick in the midbass you wouldn't know what to do. I have no problems with my subwoofer thumping hard on kick drums in rock and metal. I actually tune the 60-90 Hz region down a bit because it's too intense to sound natural, and this is with a vented enclosure. My sub/midbass crossover is 80 Hz 24 dB/octave.
    Quote Originally Posted by calebkhill View Post
    There is a major problem. YouTube? Streaming music? No wonder your system sounds like......



    Bro, midbass is achieved with door speakers, not subwoofers...... 40hz isn't in the midbass region, that's sub level....
    Midbass is 80hz up to somewhere around 300hz (i'm estimating).
    So you need to get a set of components that can handle this range with authority, along with properly tuning them to play this range.

    As mentioned by @zako ;, a pair of 6X9s will take care if this considerimg cone area. Also consider power handling. A bit of power for midbass pays off.

    Proper installation and tuning will be the deciding factor in how they will sound.
    ... Not going to say I am inclined to believe the guy with a vendor account, and it was to the best of my knowledge that subwoofers did not produce midbass, but I have two conflicting arguments in the same thread.

    1. For the downloads aspect, always 720p, mp3 320 convert, yadda yadda. Heard 480 a few times live streaming, not good. I'm just saying I may not know the right songs to test my midbass. Most song lists on sites like these consist of 30-45 hz oriented songs.

    2. No chance on the 6x9s. Last I heard the only sets worth picking up were out of my monthly pay range, much less spending limit. As well as having replaced the mounting area for them with boxes for jl 6w3v3s. Still need a proper amp for those though, the Performance Teknique I scrapped off my first Kicker box isn't cutting it without clipping.

    3. (Pertaining to the 80-300hz range) Attain quality components, get amp with 133%-125% components' RMS power, amplify the components, deaden doors, seal doors, polyfil/fiberglass insul doors, install airtight weatherstripped/caulked baffle, install components, attain midbass, quality, and clarity.
    (Pertaining to the 80-40hz range) Redesign box <Suggestions? New design style from ported to bass reflex, horn, bandpass 4/6, even sealed?>

    Does 3 look correct?




  4. #19
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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraclem19 View Post
    I'm just saying I may not know the right songs to test my midbass. Most song lists on sites like these consist of 30-45 hz oriented songs.
    If you're into electronic music some of it has some hard hitting midbass for the beat. Underworld - Kittens has gotten my midbasses playing pretty loudly back when I was crossing them at 50 Hz(which I do not recommend). I don't know what frequency the kick is centered at, but you can get the song on YouTube. It sounds fine even at 360p.

    2. No chance on the 6x9s. Last I heard the only sets worth picking up were out of my monthly pay range, much less spending limit. As well as having replaced the mounting area for them with boxes for jl 6w3v3s. Still need a proper amp for those though, the Performance Teknique I scrapped off my first Kicker box isn't cutting it without clipping.
    There are good 6x9 subs from CDT Audio that range from $150/pr to $300/pr. They don't require boxes.

    3. (Pertaining to the 80-300hz range) Attain quality components, get amp with 133%-125% components' RMS power, amplify the components, deaden doors, seal doors, polyfil/fiberglass insul doors, install airtight weatherstripped/caulked baffle, install components, attain midbass, quality, and clarity.
    (Pertaining to the 80-40hz range) Redesign box <Suggestions? New design style from ported to bass reflex, horn, bandpass 4/6, even sealed?>

    Does 3 look correct?
    Put the fiberglass insulation in thin plastic bags. Don't use polyfill, the fiberglass is much better. I don't really agree on the "133%-125% components' RMS power" part, but some extra power is always good. I would buy more power rather than not enough, to a point.

    If making a new box isn't a big deal I would try a sealed box. It should broaden the response over what you're hearing now, as I suspect your box is peaking way too low.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Will try the song and see what it sounds like with substage on and off, thank ya for the reccomendation.
    These 6x9s won't blow out from the subwoofer in a near sealed trunk? Will see if the factory mounting points are even still there.
    Thought the extra power was needed (no o-scope yet) to avoid clipping by only using 3/4 total gain?

    Problem I have found with sealed boxes is how big to go. Too big and you lose top end, too small and excessive heat and energy for not near enough sound and near loss of low end. running a 12 with 1000wrms, .5" xmax, .65 qts, ~31.5 fs. (sorry, lost my bassbox install this week)
    mfg recommends a .8 box... don't know if that's near right but it doesn't sound like it. Or if that plans on including stuffing.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Thought the extra power was needed (no o-scope yet) to avoid clipping by only using 3/4 total gain?
    This is the wrong way to look at gain setting. I recommend you go from the beginning and try to forget any bad habits you may have been using to set gains. This video should be watched from the beginning to get the most education from it, and it's well worth your time.



    running a 12 with 1000wrms, .5" xmax, .65 qts, ~31.5 fs. (sorry, lost my bassbox install this week)
    mfg recommends a .8 box... don't know if that's near right but it doesn't sound like it. Or if that plans on including stuffing.
    I looked back in the thread and it seems you may be using a Pioneer Champion Pro sub. Is this correct?




    Small town service, family owned and operated. See our new mobile friendly web site at www.513electronics.com
    Home to CDT Audio's Systems Design Specialist
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    My system: Pioneer AVH-4000NEX, JBL MS-8, Clarion XC6610 x 2, CDT 6.7"/4"/1.1" in the front doors, 4"/1.1" center channel, QES-1220 12" x 2, Clarion SRG-1622R rear fill

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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraclem19 View Post
    Will try the song and see what it sounds like with substage on and off, thank ya for the reccomendation.
    These 6x9s won't blow out from the subwoofer in a near sealed trunk? Will see if the factory mounting points are even still there.
    Thought the extra power was needed (no o-scope yet) to avoid clipping by only using 3/4 total gain?

    Problem I have found with sealed boxes is how big to go. Too big and you lose top end, too small and excessive heat and energy for not near enough sound and near loss of low end. running a 12 with 1000wrms, .5" xmax, .65 qts, ~31.5 fs. (sorry, lost my bassbox install this week)
    mfg recommends a .8 box... don't know if that's near right but it doesn't sound like it. Or if that plans on including stuffing.
    MORE power is better. more amp power means more output before clipping. You are right.



    "When I listen to a stereo loudspeaker playback in my room and an auditory scene has formed in my mind, how would I know that what I hear is an accurate replica of an auditory scene that could be had at the recording venue? Or more generally, that this is an auditory scene that could have existed at all?"


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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Hello, Does anyone know if a hypnotic v1000dx will lift a kicker l7 15" cleanly??




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikz8212 View Post
    Hello, Does anyone know if a hypnotic v1000dx will lift a kicker l7 15" cleanly??
    I can't speak of the quality of that amp, but it's an older one. Hypnotic has a different line of amps now, but nobody's heard of the company so they don't sell. I really am not confident to recommend them as they can't even bother to update their web site.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Thanks, any advice on a amp i can get that is not too costly but will do the job, the l7 is in a ported box and i have a epicenter also i just want a good amp,, how about a quantum qca2000d, how are those?




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quantum is the entry level brand by dB Research, who also makes dB Drive. Between the two companies I'd recommend one of the mid-high level dB Drive amplifiers over anything by Quantum. Your questions really should be in your own thread, btw.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
    This is the wrong way to look at gain setting. I recommend you go from the beginning and try to forget any bad habits you may have been using to set gains. This video should be watched from the beginning to get the most education from it, and it's well worth your time.





    I looked back in the thread and it seems you may be using a Pioneer Champion Pro sub. Is this correct?
    (3/4 or 2/3 gain as a reference point to begin listening for distortion)
    I am taking a wild guess here, that you ah... meant to link to the what was it about a 5 minute video of one of the larger retailers tuning gains while both outside the car under a lifted hood in a warehouse, as well as a shot of tuning while in the trunk? (Similar to the Skar video style... like many things Skar)

    Is one of the ones I run. Currently in about a 2.5-3~ cube box, 30 inch of port area, tuned to 35, double baffle. Have a 800 rms Audiopipe "eyecandy" series in about a 4 cube box, double baffle, maybe 28 inch port area, tuned down to 32.
    Considering putting the AP in a horn/bass reflex/home entertainment quarter line, has a Q in the <.5 area.

    Looking like with the numbers from Hornresp I could use the two 6w3v3s at about 2-300w and lose a total of about 3 db... Making me reconsider all these larger drivers.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraclem19 View Post
    (3/4 or 2/3 gain as a reference point to begin listening for distortion)
    I am taking a wild guess here, that you ah... meant to link to the what was it about a 5 minute video of one of the larger retailers tuning gains while both outside the car under a lifted hood in a warehouse, as well as a shot of tuning while in the trunk? (Similar to the Skar video style... like many things Skar)
    Just watch the video I linked. Don't assume it was linked by mistake. There's more information in that video than you'd get by reading how-tos for a month.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Ah now it appears. Must have had a glitch on the last time I pulled up my browser. It looked like you had forgotten to post the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
    Just watch the video I linked. Don't assume it was linked by mistake. There's more information in that video than you'd get by reading how-tos for a month.
    About half way through the video, eating through my time before work, relearning many things. As far as the law goes, from your experience is it better to adjust gain from the mathematical calculations or eared distortion? I started with the math but became uncomfortable using it knowing that impedance can change per the frequency and enclosure. Is it still safe to use the mfg number for Re rated ohmage?
    Last edited by Oraclem19; 06-16-2013 at 03:12 AM.




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    Re: Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraclem19 View Post
    Ah now it appears. Must have had a glitch on the last time I pulled up my browser. It looked like you had forgotten to post the link.



    About half way through the video, eating through my time before work, relearning many things. As far as the law goes, from your experience is it better to adjust gain from the mathematical calculations or eared distortion? I started with the math but became uncomfortable using it knowing that impedance can change per the frequency and enclosure. Is it still safe to use the mfg number for Re rated ohmage?
    combination, use a mixture. Use the math to get you close, tune by ear past that. You can't use pure power for setting gains, thats ridiculous. Speakers don't have the same effeciency. Just because your sub can take 1000 watts and your mids can take 300 doesn't mean you want both of those things to happen at same time of the volume knob. If the sub is 3x as loud as the midbass then that's pretty crappy gain setting, unless you just want everything running full out and don't care how it sounds. So using the math to get a baseline is great, but to tune a system you have to back that up with your ears by turning down whichever ends up being loudest.. Plus let's not forget some clipping is honestly ok.. Furthermore, clipping at the preamp tends to sound worse than clipping at the amplifier as it' s not amplified distortion, garbage in/garbage out..
    Last edited by T3mpest; 06-17-2013 at 04:49 AM.



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