User Tag List

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Reload Thread: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    I've noticed my tweeters seem to sound harsh when I get up to highway speeds. I have Focal IS130s (5 1/4" , mid + tweeter w/ built in cross over.) Because the crossover is built in, there's really no way change the crossover point on the components I don't think. The tweeters are mounted at about chest level on the door, opposite of the side mirror on the interior.

    The only way I combat the harshness is by turning the bass up on EQ and turning the treble down. It helps, but I lose the quality of cymbal hits and risk clipping by messing with bass settings.

    What's causing this and is there any solution? Perhaps Dynamat?







  2. #2
    CAT MAN's Avatar
    CAT MAN is offline Banned



    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Roanoke,VA
    Posts
    8,131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    wire the tweeters out of phase.




  3. #3
    xenofactor07's Avatar
    xenofactor07 is offline Member

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    How does one do that? Do you mean connect one to plus, negative correctly and then connect the other to plus, negative oppositely?




  4. #4
    maylar's Avatar
    maylar is offline Electrical Weenie



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Yes. The reversed one usually gets softer.

    "oppositely".. nice adverb.



    dave
    ----------
    1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
    Head Unit: JVC KWHDR720
    EQ: Audiocontrol EQL
    Front Stage: Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine 5.25 mids, Morel Maximo tweets
    Sub Stage: Boston G3 10", 0.5 cu ft sealed
    Amp: PPI Phantom 900.4
    Rear Fill: Boston SE953 6X9's

  5. #5
    mlstrass's Avatar
    mlstrass is offline Shaggy DOA



    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    10,514
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    wiring out of phase won't change a tweeter, freqs played are too high.

    You could try some speaker grill cloth over the tweeter to try and mute it some...




  6. #6
    keep_hope_alive's Avatar
    keep_hope_alive is offline Acoustics Engineer keep_hope_alive is a Supporting Member of the forum!



    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Quad Cities, IL
    Posts
    6,023
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    28
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by mlstrass View Post
    wiring out of phase won't change a tweeter, freqs played are too high.

    You could try some speaker grill cloth over the tweeter to try and mute it some...
    It certainly can help with the blending of tweeter to mid. Phase is important below 5kHz, where most tweeters play below



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

    My 2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    ***My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    *My 2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    *2005 Scion tC Build Log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

  7. #7
    CAT MAN's Avatar
    CAT MAN is offline Banned



    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Roanoke,VA
    Posts
    8,131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by mlstrass View Post
    wiring out of phase won't change a tweeter, freqs played are too high.

    You could try some speaker grill cloth over the tweeter to try and mute it some...
    i see someone isnt into sq




  8. #8
    nismos14's Avatar
    nismos14 is offline CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    Age
    33
    Posts
    14,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    If they are harsh they will still likely be harsh after phase has been played around with. Now he's saying that his tweeters sound harsh at highway speed. So what are the variables that come into play in that scenario? More than likely the volume has to be increased substantially, so if the tweeters are harsh, you may decide to cut frequencies using the EQ. Increasing the bass doesn't make the high range any less harsh. I would leave the bass where it is on the eq, and lower the higher range eq settings. See how it turns out, but more than likely it will take a lot of testing and tuning. I would also suggest if possible to change the orientation of the tweeters, perhaps angle them such a way that they are not as harsh to the hear without doing many other changes.






    Car audio IS an addiction.
    C.A.A.A Member #1
    (Car Audio Addicts Anonymous)
    Refs http://www.caraudio.com/forums/buyer-seller-feedback/278560-nismos14-feedback-refs-thread.html


  9. #9
    mlstrass's Avatar
    mlstrass is offline Shaggy DOA



    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    10,514
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    It certainly can help with the blending of tweeter to mid. Phase is important below 5kHz, where most tweeters play below
    it won't help with his issue and 99% of the time it will make NO diff period....




  10. #10
    mlstrass's Avatar
    mlstrass is offline Shaggy DOA



    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    10,514
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT MAN View Post
    i see someone isnt into sq
    I've dabbled in SQ in the past which is why I know changing phase on tweeters makes no difference. My 880 lets you change on the fly...




  11. #11
    nismos14's Avatar
    nismos14 is offline CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    Age
    33
    Posts
    14,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Flipping the phase has the most pronounced effect when you flip phase on BOTH the tweeters, you can gain a lot more width and breadth, to the ear.






    Car audio IS an addiction.
    C.A.A.A Member #1
    (Car Audio Addicts Anonymous)
    Refs http://www.caraudio.com/forums/buyer-seller-feedback/278560-nismos14-feedback-refs-thread.html


  12. #12
    zako's Avatar
    zako is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    With some speakers, you can't really do much about this. A lot of the time the tweeter harshness comes from the fact that the tweeter is high passed too low. Often, playing 2KHz and up with authority is just too much to ask from a 1 inch diameter tweeter. If you run active you can high pass your tweeters higher and sharper, but this will not work well if your mids can't play upper mid range well. Some supposedly "high end" mids (ID mids, Dayton Reference) are not meant to play above 2KHz for example, pretty much requiring a high end tweeter. By the way, a lot of Focal crossovers come with advanced crossover networks. At very least you should be able to select tweeter attenuation mode (0dB, -3dB, -6dB etc).

    My HAT Imagine speakers produced ear piercing upper midrange once the volume is up to make music audible at 70mhp simply because the high pass filter with a 6dB slope in their crossover network was not enough to calm them down. Now I got hold of an active crossover, and the tweeters are set with high pass at 6.3KHz and 12dB slope, and they sound fantastic. The HAT mids do have a reputation for a good upper end extension, so I can still hear upper mid-range without tweeters playing much of it.

    What makes tweeters sound bad when they are high passed too low is often the _distortion_. If this is the case, I don't think having them out of phase will help much. Whether in phase or out of phase, distortion is distortion.

    Of course, another issue could be that tweeters have low distortion even at high volume, but the crossover does not attenuate them enough. If you can, try to move tweeters far away from your ears, maybe into kick panels if you have them.

    There are also the "crossover geek" ways of calming down the tweeters. You can potentially do this by inserting a capacitor or a resistor in-line with the tweeter. A capacitor creates an additional 6dB high pass filter with cut frequency that depends on the cap value. The resistor I believe is for attenuation.
    Last edited by zako; 10-06-2012 at 02:20 AM.




  13. #13
    Canaan's Avatar
    Canaan is offline Beatin' the block down



    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Monroe, Louisiana
    Posts
    1,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    OP.
    @xenofactor07

    Please detail your audio system more clearly.

    What head unit are you using? What amp(s)?
    Also, what vehicle?

    I would like to chime in on my 'fix', but need more info to properly judge the situation.



    Canaan White...'04 Avalanche
    HU Eclipse 7200MkII
    AMPS DD C4a(front active), 2 DD M2B
    SPEAKERS (Front) DD AT28, DD VO-M65
    SUBS...SOMETHING LOUD SOON!!?
    WIRES XSCORPION
    TEAM SOUTH

    Desiard Street Pawn and Car Audio, Monroe, La...XScorpion and DD Audio Dealer.
    Shop Phone 318-343-8283

  14. #14
    zako's Avatar
    zako is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    By the way, some head units have "sound enhancers" and preset EQ curves that usually are just terrible. I remember the "Supreme+" on all new Kenwood head units. The thing is terrible, and adds harshness as high and low frequencies, and based on a third party test reduces stereo separation to 15dB. Try to turn off any of those.




  15. #15
    Canaan's Avatar
    Canaan is offline Beatin' the block down



    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Monroe, Louisiana
    Posts
    1,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Harsh highs from tweeters at highway speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by zako View Post
    By the way, some head units have "sound enhancers" and preset EQ curves that usually are just terrible. I remember the "Supreme+" on all new Kenwood head units. The thing is terrible, and adds harshness as high and low frequencies, and based on a third party test reduces stereo separation to 15dB. Try to turn off any of those.
    Also, 'Loudness' control on every Pioneer Hu for at least the last 10yrs boosts the HELL out of bass and treble.
    ....
    ...
    ..
    .
    can you say "sibilance"



    Canaan White...'04 Avalanche
    HU Eclipse 7200MkII
    AMPS DD C4a(front active), 2 DD M2B
    SPEAKERS (Front) DD AT28, DD VO-M65
    SUBS...SOMETHING LOUD SOON!!?
    WIRES XSCORPION
    TEAM SOUTH

    Desiard Street Pawn and Car Audio, Monroe, La...XScorpion and DD Audio Dealer.
    Shop Phone 318-343-8283

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Static coming from speakers at high volume after amp install
    By a216vcti in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-22-2012, 11:43 PM
  2. pulsing from speakers at high volume ..
    By Harleyfx69 in forum Wiring, Electrical and Installation Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-27-2009, 11:51 PM
  3. Knocking sound from sub at high volumes
    By PESteele in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-23-2006, 09:53 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-20-2003, 09:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
1e2 Forum