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    Icon32 Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    As title says, i also wanted to know if i used a kick panel for my components, could i put in a 6.5" mid bass driver in my door as well paralleled wired to my components so i could not only get more mid bass up front, but also get a 2 ohm load from the amp?

    If that is doable, what spec should i look at to determine if a driver will work good in an infinite baffle config. Would any type that works in a sealed box also do as well in a door? i'm gonna seal it as best i can so the back waves don't reach the interior.

    basically i need more midbass up front, but i'm afraid if i use a kick panel, there won't be enough air space for the woofer to sound the way its supposed to.







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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    The classic solution is midbass drivers in the doors and main speakers in the kicks. The doors (sealed & deadened) typically give better midbass and custom kick panels let you aim the main speakers for ultimate imaging. Mmmmm... fiberglass project...

    You need to bandpass the midbass, so using the same amp is not really an option.

    There are dedicated midbass drivers out there.



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    it is 100% install dependent



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    Quote Originally Posted by maylar View Post
    You need to bandpass the midbass, so using the same amp is not really an option.

    .
    explain this please. if you mean filter, i was thinking of using a passive.
    and would the kick panel not decrease the mid bass response of the component woofer? if it does then i was wondering if having that second driver in the door is worth it.

    my second thought was to just get an under seat powered 8" subwoofer and put it under the seat. Even though my door is deadened and sealed. my Memphis components just don't have much midbass at all...certainly not enough to move the lows to the front stage, which is what i wanted to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by wenn_du_weinst View Post
    it is 100% install dependent
    i'm sure it is but that tid bit of info was rather vague and not too informative sorry.

    *edit: current system specs in case its needed

    pioneer premier HU
    memphis components up front
    JLA Slash v2 amp
    JLA xd amp for sub
    W6v2 sub, ported 35hz
    gained properly, no boosts. Knuconcepts wiring
    fatmat sound deadening. ( i also tried some speaker baffles from crutfield for the door woofer, but those made for less bass)

    Problem: bass comes from trunk, not up front.
    i can boost the bass up front but those speakers don't like that and it doesn't help anyway, just makes everything sound worse.

    Now i did have a Waves maxxbass which did the trick...however it was too noisy and i eventually removed it. its just flat out a noisy processor alltogether.
    So now i want to try kick panels, under seat subwoofer.....something




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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    hmm what kind of car cause my mcc6 comps had pretty decent mid bass in my truck doors and the were sealed and deadened with foam on the front trim ring to seal the front of the speaker to the door panel nice and tight

    if you have a gap in between the door panel and the door u might be losing mid-bass there. how are your cross overs set mine were high-passed at 60hz and i ran 100w to mine without a problem.



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    Install dependant means your door sealing and deadening needs attention if you have poor midbass. If you use a dedicated midbass driver you'd want to bandpass it from like 50-200 Hz and the main speakers from 200 up. Hard to do passively.



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    I run a dedicated 6.5" midbass in sealed/deadened doors (with a custom baffle). About 20 hours of effort.

    I run midrange in the kick - fully customized, removed metal, flush with carpet, vented to body cavity. Considering I can put a 6.5" and a 4" in the kick, the effort was greater than just one. at least 40 hours of effort.

    your goals can be me with your plans, provided you get the doors well sealed and deadened. Depth is your challenge here. I went with the (affordable) Silver Flute woofers but had to gain another 1/2" of depth (on top of the 1" i already gained). This meant permanent modifications to the door metal and door panel.

    as far as amplification, building a sufficient passive low pass around 200Hz will not be cheap. You want to high pass the kick woofer as well. Probably around $30 per side, mostly in the inductors.

    Getting "up front bass" also requires you turn down your sub level to better match the midbass output. getting that transition correct is key. you can do this by ear or with an RTA. we want a midbass bump, but it should start with the midbass, not the subs. most systems are incapable of this, or have the subs turned up too high.

    once you get to the kicks, the level of customization is high. probably 30 hours or so per kick. it's more than a Q-form. you want either a sealed, airtight, and rigid cavity, or you want to vent to the exterior. which you do depends on the T/S of the woofer used.

    nothing in a car is "infinite baffle". a door is just box that is much larger than the air spring compliance of the woofer. so the woofer suspension is not helped by the airspace. Just ensure the door woofer crossover is an octave or so above the woofer Fs. if the pod is sealed, this concern goes away.



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    Quote Originally Posted by winkychevelle View Post
    hmm what kind of car cause my mcc6 comps had pretty decent mid bass in my truck doors and the were sealed and deadened with foam on the front trim ring to seal the front of the speaker to the door panel nice and tight

    if you have a gap in between the door panel and the door u might be losing mid-bass there. how are your cross overs set mine were high-passed at 60hz and i ran 100w to mine without a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by maylar View Post
    Install dependant means your door sealing and deadening needs attention if you have poor midbass. If you use a dedicated midbass driver you'd want to bandpass it from like 50-200 Hz and the main speakers from 200 up. Hard to do passively.
    I do have a gap between the inside door panel and the speaker. i never thought that the door panel would cause any difference since the door is sealed from the front of the speaker and door panel.
    its not a huge gap...but i'll look into that thanks. Its a 05 Honda Civic. i used a 3/4 spacer which is sealed tight, but still left a gap in front of the door panel's grill. not sure how i'd fix that atm cause the grill in the door panel is stock and weird shaped, not round.

    so could this be my main issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    I run a dedicated 6.5" midbass in sealed/deadened doors (with a custom baffle). About 20 hours of effort.

    I run midrange in the kick - fully customized, removed metal, flush with carpet, vented to body cavity. Considering I can put a 6.5" and a 4" in the kick, the effort was greater than just one. at least 40 hours of effort.

    your goals can be me with your plans, provided you get the doors well sealed and deadened. Depth is your challenge here. I went with the (affordable) Silver Flute woofers but had to gain another 1/2" of depth (on top of the 1" i already gained). This meant permanent modifications to the door metal and door panel.

    as far as amplification, building a sufficient passive low pass around 200Hz will not be cheap. You want to high pass the kick woofer as well. Probably around $30 per side, mostly in the inductors.

    Getting "up front bass" also requires you turn down your sub level to better match the midbass output. getting that transition correct is key. you can do this by ear or with an RTA. we want a midbass bump, but it should start with the midbass, not the subs. most systems are incapable of this, or have the subs turned up too high.

    once you get to the kicks, the level of customization is high. probably 30 hours or so per kick. it's more than a Q-form. you want either a sealed, airtight, and rigid cavity, or you want to vent to the exterior. which you do depends on the T/S of the woofer used.

    nothing in a car is "infinite baffle". a door is just box that is much larger than the air spring compliance of the woofer. so the woofer suspension is not helped by the airspace. Just ensure the door woofer crossover is an octave or so above the woofer Fs. if the pod is sealed, this concern goes away.
    thank you for that info. i'll refer to all this when i have time to redo my system. AFAI can tell, my door itself is pretty well sealed, but of course the window just has the weather strip and there may be air escaping through that or the lock mechanism....not sure what i can really do about all that.

    i have spent much time adjusting the subs. its not too loud, rather there isn't enough bass up front for me to get enough sound out the subs if that makes sense. Like i said before, i had it right when i used my Maxxbass processor. it really did make my fronts sound like i had subs up front...however that processor is just too noisy and i got tired of hearing that buzz through my speakers when the volume was low

    As far as kicks. i was actually just going to buy some from Crutchfield..yeah i know, i'm not really the type to build stuff. Maybe adding another midbass isn't the right option for me. I'm not after perfect sound, just want my subs to be more up stage.
    How about i just get an underseat sub?

    i have to kinda comprimise somewhere here i can tell already.

    nothing in a car is "infinite baffle". a door is just box that is much larger than the air spring compliance of the woofer. so the woofer suspension is not helped by the airspace. Just ensure the door woofer crossover is an octave or so above the woofer Fs. if the pod is sealed, this concern goes away
    Well is there not woofer's with specs allowing for IB installations? i know there used to be, in the 90's lots of subs stated the enclosure type they were designed for like sealed, ported or IB...today its just ported and sealed both it seems... i believe IB is more a coin term to suggest you can use your trunk (large space) for the enclosure.... i read before that there is a spec range to look for to determine if a driver can be used in an IB like fashion...yes meaning using my entire door as the box.




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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    by "sealing up the door" we mean closing the large holes in the door metal.

    factory


    sealed and deadened


    then use foam to seal against the door panel


    this effort was required for my bass to be in my sound stage. midbass requires airtight, rigid seals.



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    right, i did all that. i never put no foam around my speaker though.




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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    post pics like the above of your speaker installation. what is the HPF on the door woofers? can you get bass in your sound stage if you turn the subs down far enough?



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    Quote Originally Posted by maylar View Post
    Install dependant means your door sealing and deadening needs attention if you have poor midbass. If you use a dedicated midbass driver you'd want to bandpass it from like 50-200 Hz and the main speakers from 200 up. Hard to do passively.
    Hmmm. "Install dependant" goes far deeper than just sealing and deadening, and is also going to include type of driver, whether or not it repros well on/off axis, use of a good baffle with butyl sealing, prefab kicks versus custom with Vas matching, appropriate wiring and matching to the amp, etc, etc.
    In a daily driver--- with all things being equal--- I doubt there would be a world of difference in a properly done door install vs/ kick panel...



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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    ^agreed. midbass is just easier to achieve in a door compared to a kick. kick midbass is more time consuming due to the needs to find adequate airspace for the driver.

    I much preferred the sound stage I had with kick midbass, but I prefer the tonality of door midbass (given my vehicle/equipment/modifications)



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    ^agreed. midbass is just easier to achieve in a door compared to a kick. kick midbass is more time consuming due to the needs to find adequate airspace for the driver.

    I much preferred the sound stage I had with kick midbass, but I prefer the tonality of door midbass (given my vehicle/equipment/modifications)



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

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    Re: Do Kick panels give better SQ than using your door?

    no one mentioned if an under seat powered sub would help. I saw one Kicker made and Alpine and JLA have some nice passive, ported ones, but the latter i doubt would fit under my seat. i'm sure the Kicker would though.

    Could also be my memphis speakers, they were only like $99 some 2 years ago. and that was at an audio shop, so i'm sure they were far cheaper even online....i should get some decent components.
    i may even consider putting my Maxxbass processor back in if i had to, maybe there's something more i could do about the noise it puts out. But i can see it could get more complicated than i hoped and i may have to just comprimise somewhere.

    heck, i should just all new gear and try something different.




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