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Reload Thread: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

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    Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    I just ordered these components to build a custom center channel for my Logitech Z-5500 system that I run on my computer.

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=264-804
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=295-302 x2
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=260-144

    In the future I will probably upgrade to a decent reciever and some different surround speakers. I replaced the fronts with a pair of Sony bookshelf speakers that I've had around for a while and liked the sound better so I'm going to upgrade the center channel. I'm probably going to build a new subwoofer box when I build this center channel to use a spare RE SR10D4 that I have.

    This is a sketchup of the enclosure I have planned. It should be about .4 cubic feet tuned to 55hz after displacement. I used WINISD to do the calculations as I've never build a ported box for anything but subwoofers, but the response curve looked good for the woofers. It will act as a monitor stand also, that is why it is taller in the front, to fit the 5.25" woofers but keep my monitor at eye level. Anyone see any problems with my little plan? The center channel of the amp is rated at I think [email protected] RMS.




    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.




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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    I don't understand the fascination with an MTM center channel. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

    One of advantages to running MTM setups is you reduce dispersion in the vertical plane, thereby reducing reflections caused by the ceiling- and more importantly- the floor ( floor bounce cancellation).

    What happens when when you tip it on its side? Reduced dispersion in the HORIZONTAL plane. So what happens when you are not sitting directly on axis in the horizontal plane? uneven response and a reduction in volume.

    But meh, do what you wish Better idea would be to do 2.5 way, with one of the woofers only playing midbass if you really need the extra output and reduction in distortion.



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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Well first of all, I'm not very educated on the subject and have very little experience.

    Second, as far as I can understand, I'll be exactly on axis for the center channel. It will be probably 3-4 feet from me, at about chest height. Off axis response is not really a concern when the speakers are all pointed at a single chair, right?

    I'm not trying to build something incredible, just experimenting and hoping to upgrade what I have now. And remember I'm going from 3" full range drivers to a two-way, three driver setup. I don't like the idea of full range drivers all that much so I wanted to try this kind of setup out.



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    I don't like the idea of full range drivers all that much so I wanted to try this kind of setup out.
    You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but just curious how you heard them




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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJ View Post
    You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but just curious how you heard them
    My opinion on full range drivers? Well, something about it sounds crowded to me. I have no scientific data or theory to back up my opinion, but switching from the stock front/left to the bookshelf speakers I had made quite a difference in mid-range. I use ProLogic quite a bit and true surround when available and notice that most of the important sound comes from the center channel so I decided to try the same with it. I looked at some retail center channels, most of them too expensive to buy and then started looking around at some HT projects and what was available cheap from PE. MTM seemed to be the most common alignment, and it doesn't seem to complicated for a first try. So there! If you have a better suggestion for the $60 or so this project will require, let's hear it!



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by bustaplz View Post
    Well first of all, I'm not very educated on the subject and have very little experience.

    Second, as far as I can understand, I'll be exactly on axis for the center channel. It will be probably 3-4 feet from me, at about chest height. Off axis response is not really a concern when the speakers are all pointed at a single chair, right?

    I'm not trying to build something incredible, just experimenting and hoping to upgrade what I have now. And remember I'm going from 3" full range drivers to a two-way, three driver setup. I don't like the idea of full range drivers all that much so I wanted to try this kind of setup out.
    I understand, I was just venting mostly for home theater setups where the listeners are not on axis with the center

    Quote Originally Posted by bustaplz View Post
    My opinion on full range drivers? Well, something about it sounds crowded to me. I have no scientific data or theory to back up my opinion, but switching from the stock front/left to the bookshelf speakers I had made quite a difference in mid-range. I use ProLogic quite a bit and true surround when available and notice that most of the important sound comes from the center channel so I decided to try the same with it. I looked at some retail center channels, most of them too expensive to buy and then started looking around at some HT projects and what was available cheap from PE. MTM seemed to be the most common alignment, and it doesn't seem to complicated for a first try. So there! If you have a better suggestion for the $60 or so this project will require, let's hear it!
    Crowded? Really depends on the drivers and what frquency range you were running them in. I have played with several 3 inch drivers and found that playing below ~250hz gives the sound you describe. Congested and unnatrual. My suggestion? Run a bigger driver or a better drier such as the CSS FR125 or the Daton RS100. I have experience with the latter, and its quite nice above 150hz. For a center channel, you really don't need to go lower than that.

    I am a strong advocate of using full range drivers for a center channel. Moving crossovers out of the vocal range really helps, especially with female voices. At the very least, go 2 way with a full range driver and a tweeter with a very high crossover (~10khz) clear from the vocal range.

    $0.02



    References: Lax916, AcidicDreams , Altima98 , mr Tibbs, Majette, giantgloworm, mattmcss, riogigalo, mysilver02alty, Woc47, Hintzyboy, oglejust, APitBullT, foreman, jhubbell, tmcilroy, pioneerpimp, Dre_ATL

    Plus a ton more I never added, lol. If you are not on the list and you had a pleasant transaction with me, PM me!!!

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    I have played with several 3 inch drivers and found that playing below ~250hz gives the sound you describe. Congested and unnatrual.
    I've heard 3's that I've loved extending down past 150Hz, but you're talking about enclosures about as big as a medium-sized 'fridge




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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast1one View Post
    I understand, I was just venting mostly for home theater setups where the listeners are not on axis with the center


    Crowded? Really depends on the drivers and what frquency range you were running them in. I have played with several 3 inch drivers and found that playing below ~250hz gives the sound you describe. Congested and unnatrual. My suggestion? Run a bigger driver or a better drier such as the CSS FR125 or the Daton RS100. I have experience with the latter, and its quite nice above 150hz. For a center channel, you really don't need to go lower than that.

    I am a strong advocate of using full range drivers for a center channel. Moving crossovers out of the vocal range really helps, especially with female voices. At the very least, go 2 way with a full range driver and a tweeter with a very high crossover (~10khz) clear from the vocal range.

    $0.02
    Makes sense, I guess I'll have to look into some full range drivers in the future. Maybe I'll try that as replacement for the surrounds(not that they really need replacing) if the center works out. I'll probably be building my own fronts if this project works out, I have a little sketch. They are angled slightly to sit against the edges of the center channel and point directly me. Would those 5.25" woofers be better suited serving in the fronts? What are reasonable alternatives to my center channel if I go that way?



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJ View Post
    I've heard 3's that I've loved extending down past 150Hz, but you're talking about enclosures about as big as a medium-sized 'fridge
    Well these 3" drivers are in plastic sealed enclosures probably about 6"x4"x4". They aren't terrible, probably better than most computer speakers I've heard, but that's not saying a whole lot. Compared to my $100 CDT component set, they sound like garbage. They also try very hard to play low, if I could adjust the crossover, maybe they would sound better, but I figure if the Z-5500 amp wants to send midbass signals, I'll use something that can handle those frequencies a bit better.



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast1one View Post
    At the very least, go 2 way with a full range driver and a tweeter with a very high crossover (~10khz) clear from the vocal range.
    What if I built my own 3-way crossover. Something like 700/7000 I think would be possible. And used one of the Tang Band drivers out of the Logitech speakers as full range, two woofers and the tweeter I bought. 4 drivers sounds like a lot to drive with 68w but I don't know. Should I ditch the woofers in the center channel altogether and just run a full range or two and tweeter?



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by bustaplz View Post
    What if I built my own 3-way crossover. Something like 700/7000 I think would be possible. And used one of the Tang Band drivers out of the Logitech speakers as full range, two woofers and the tweeter I bought. 4 drivers sounds like a lot to drive with 68w but I don't know. Should I ditch the woofers in the center channel altogether and just run a full range or two and tweeter?
    700 is a bit too high, I would aim for 300hz or even 200 to stay away from the vocal range. The upper crossover would be fine in that case.

    The main thing to realize is that if you are going to go with a setup with a crossover point in the vocal range, then it needs to be implemented WELL. Three way sounds like way too much work for a center channel, but thats just my opinion.

    Personally, I can tell the difference in the vocal range between full range drivers and well designed two way loudspeakers. A few of them come really close to perfection, but IMO none of them really have the magic of full range in the telephone band.

    Anyway, thats all my opinion. If you want to do this right with two way, I would suggest going with an existing design that has been proven and thoroughly tested. One website in particular comes to mind. If you haven't been there, I suggest you do:

    http://zaphaudio.com/

    There are plenty of designs, ranging from stupid cheap to several hundred dollars. One in particular comes to mind:

    http://zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html

    Just plop it on its side and away you go



    References: Lax916, AcidicDreams , Altima98 , mr Tibbs, Majette, giantgloworm, mattmcss, riogigalo, mysilver02alty, Woc47, Hintzyboy, oglejust, APitBullT, foreman, jhubbell, tmcilroy, pioneerpimp, Dre_ATL

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Thanks for the links, I like that design you posted. I don't know if I'll go by that yet, but what would be the best way to add in the mid-bass region if I'm using a full range driver?



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by bustaplz View Post
    Thanks for the links, I like that design you posted. I don't know if I'll go by that yet, but what would be the best way to add in the mid-bass region if I'm using a full range driver?
    Just designing a passive crossover and going "2-way" with a mid bass driver and a full range. Obviously with separate chambers in the enclosures.

    Or just use a capable full range driver. Im telling you, the dayton RS100s have great bass, especially ported, and great extension all the way up to 20k. The 4ohm versions are best for ported alignments. The 8 ohm drivers have significantly different parameters, and are better suited for sealed alignments.

    For 25 bucks, its hard to not try it



    References: Lax916, AcidicDreams , Altima98 , mr Tibbs, Majette, giantgloworm, mattmcss, riogigalo, mysilver02alty, Woc47, Hintzyboy, oglejust, APitBullT, foreman, jhubbell, tmcilroy, pioneerpimp, Dre_ATL

    Plus a ton more I never added, lol. If you are not on the list and you had a pleasant transaction with me, PM me!!!

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast1one View Post
    Just designing a passive crossover and going "2-way" with a mid bass driver and a full range. Obviously with separate chambers in the enclosures.

    Or just use a capable full range driver. Im telling you, the dayton RS100s have great bass, especially ported, and great extension all the way up to 20k. The 4ohm versions are best for ported alignments. The 8 ohm drivers have significantly different parameters, and are better suited for sealed alignments.

    For 25 bucks, its hard to not try it
    Hadn't thought of that. Would a RS100 really be able to compete with a tweeter?



    _______________________________________________


    Pioneer DEH-P4800MP
    Hifonics BXi608
    2 RE Audio SR10 D4's in 2ft^3 tuned to 32.5hz
    CDT Comps front, CDT Coaxials rear, MBQ DSC480
    Seat-out Box:
    Diamond D312D2 in 2ft^3 tuned to 34hz powered by a Diamond D3400.2
    Other box:
    2 Ascendant Audio Assasin 8's in 1.2ft^3 tuned to 40hz.
    All in a red '04 Jeep Wrangler.

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    Re: Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

    Quote Originally Posted by bustaplz View Post
    Hadn't thought of that. Would a RS100 really be able to compete with a tweeter?
    If you notice there is a peak in the response after 10khz. I have found that this helps with the off-axis response up high. When I was running them in my car I had had no desire to add a tweeter. In fact, going to run two in the kicks per side, in ported enclosures as a 1.5 way with one of them playing midbass only.

    However, I will say the Fostex FF85Ks that I just got are the most detailed 3 inch full range drivers I have ever owned. Mine are moded, so I don't know how they are in stock form. But I swear this things truly rival TWEETERS costing double or triple their price. Actually they are technically really stout tweeters, as the metal dustcap is attached directly to the voice coil. Wouldn't reccomend running these below 150-200hz, so a midbass driver will definitely work well for these. So it really depends on what you want, superb quality at a loss of bass, or great quality with great bass.

    I have them running from 300hz on up crossed over to dual 15 inch drivers in open baffles:



    http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=281



    References: Lax916, AcidicDreams , Altima98 , mr Tibbs, Majette, giantgloworm, mattmcss, riogigalo, mysilver02alty, Woc47, Hintzyboy, oglejust, APitBullT, foreman, jhubbell, tmcilroy, pioneerpimp, Dre_ATL

    Plus a ton more I never added, lol. If you are not on the list and you had a pleasant transaction with me, PM me!!!

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