Closed Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Reload Thread: Tuning help required!

  1. #1
    sammcleanaudio's Avatar
    sammcleanaudio is offline Junior Member



    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Tuning help required!

    Hi All,

    Simply put, I need some help tuning my setup. I've had it over a year and as weird as it may sound, I never actually looked into any settings other than the graphical eq on my HU. In recent months, I've been learning what i can around how the frequencies, filters, etc etc all work.

    I tried tuning the system following advice not so long ago but I still feel it could be much better.

    Here's my setup:

    HU: Pioneer MVH8200BT (no manual time alignment but has auto)
    AMP: DLS Performance CA31 (3-channel)
    Subwoofer: DLS Rw10i (250W RMS)
    Fronts: Herts ESK 165 Components (100W RMS)

    Yesterday I tried some steps I've found online i.e. matching HU and amp gains by finding the volume at which distortion begins and adjusting the gain accordingly etc, next step being to increase the gain on the sub until it overpowers the fronts, then eliminating higher frequencies from the sub using the LPF.

    Although these steps sounded ok to do, I did struggle. Mainly because I struggled to recognise when distortion occured in the front and the sub, even at max volume I wouldn't say the speakers distorted as such, just killed my f***** ears.

    Also, I struggled to decide which track to listen to for tuning aswell. I listen to a lot of DnB but also pop, reggae, dance music, and so deciding on a suitable track was difficult.

    If anyone can offer any advice as to how I can go about setting up my system correctly I would be extremely grateful - i've heard a correctly tuned system and the result is amazing and I think it's achievable with the kit I've got.

    Many thanks in advance!







  2. #2
    keep_hope_alive's Avatar
    keep_hope_alive is offline Acoustics Engineer keep_hope_alive is a Supporting Member of the forum!



    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Quad Cities, IL
    Posts
    6,036
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    28
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1160 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    the best way to match amp gains is with an oscilloscope that is monitoring the speaker output channels.

    for reference music, you need something that was well recorded. this is harder to find than you'd think because most stuff is poorly mastered and mixed. the late 80's was the height of analog recording and good dynamic range was realized. they had to pay very close attention and didn't use fancy processors. the early 90's suffered from low bit-rate processing and ushered in a new era of sound recording and mastering... but not for the better.

    in recent years, the abilitly to make good quality digital recodings is available, but not well implemented due to a change in listening habits (crappy earbuds with low bit-rate music).

    i have found that most of what i consider reference music, is music i don't normally listen to. you can get reference discs from Autosound 2000, IASCA, and Demo CD's



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

    My 2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    ***My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    *My 2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    *2005 Scion tC Build Log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

  3. Likes n8skow, sammcleanaudio liked this post
  4. #3
    keep_hope_alive's Avatar
    keep_hope_alive is offline Acoustics Engineer keep_hope_alive is a Supporting Member of the forum!



    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Quad Cities, IL
    Posts
    6,036
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    28
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1160 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    when i use an EQ i am usually trying to attenuate frequency bands that are exaggerated due to vehicle resonance. I try to minimize EQ boost. I also use an RTA to help visualize the frequency response at the driver's head rest, but you still need to interpret the results. You can get and RTA app for modern smart phones then play some pink noise tracks to see what your system response looks like.



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

    My 2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    ***My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    *My 2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    *2005 Scion tC Build Log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

  5. Likes sammcleanaudio liked this post
  6. #4
    sammcleanaudio's Avatar
    sammcleanaudio is offline Junior Member

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    Thanks for that mate! Unfortunately, i've been using MP3 downloaded music rather than anything better, due to not having a CD drive on my HU. Would ripping a track from CD be better? Obviously this will not be on the same quality level as .FLAC, but then again, if the quality isn't there to begin with, no format can bring it back!

    The tuning guide I read pointed out the following things:
    1. Turn the volume up on the HU until disortion, lower until clean again
    2. Turn up the gain on the amp until distortion, lower until clean. Speaker gain set.
    3. Turn LPF to highest, and increase sub gain until distortion.
    4. Adjust gain until sub overpowers speakers and slowly reduce LPF until only lower bass, mid drums are heard.
    5. Increase sub gain until balanced with rest of the system.

    I found this extremely difficult due to not being able to physically adjust the amp and sit in the car to listen at the same time.

    Previously, I just used LPF and HPF figures as recommended.

    I'm guessing an oscioloscope is going to cost a bit?

    Think it would be worth getting an app then? Is this similar to the 'auto eq' function on my HU? This uses my built in microphone to pick up noise and response I believe.

    Thanks again mate, appreciate the help.




  7. #5
    keep_hope_alive's Avatar
    keep_hope_alive is offline Acoustics Engineer keep_hope_alive is a Supporting Member of the forum!



    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Quad Cities, IL
    Posts
    6,036
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    28
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1160 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    That guide is generally used but I agree it is challenging when you can't adjust while listening. it sounds like the system is louder than you need. in that case, set the HU volume at 70% then adjust amp gains up until you reach your preferred listening level. Since the head unit has 4Volt outputs and you aren't going to use full HU volume, you can set the amp gains around the 3V mark.

    use either the amp crossovers or the headunit crossovers, but not both.
    note that the woofers will be out of phase with the tweeters and subs due to the crossovers used. if you reverse polarity of the ESK woofers at the crossover outputs you can resolve that phase difference.

    an app won't auto-tune, but will assist you with manual tuning. you can also try running the auto-tune routine. i recommend sitting in the car and holding the mic at your head, moving it from left to right ear during the sweeps and tuning process.



    have you been helped by me? i'd love to know. shoot me a PM.

    My 2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    ***My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    *My 2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    *2005 Scion tC Build Log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

  8. Thanks sammcleanaudio thanked for this post
  9. #6
    sammcleanaudio's Avatar
    sammcleanaudio is offline Junior Member

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    my amp gains only start at 5v - 25v so 3v won't be possible. So, rather than listen for distortion etc, simply set the gains to my personal preference?

    will adjusting the phasing on the sub channel on the amp resolve the phase issue also?

    Will try the tuning mate, thanks very much.

    Just something else, can you offer any advice as to tuning the HPF and LPF? Whilst the HPF is turned off, the fronts are actually more powerful than I thought when playing mid-bass etc. However, I was under the impression I would damage them after a while if they are constantly playing the lower frequencies?

    Should I match the AMPs speaker HPF and the HU HPF?

    Sorry for all the questions! Thanks very much for the help above.




  10. #7
    Vincer77's Avatar
    Vincer77 is offline Member



    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Near Nashville, TN
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    23 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    The gain is 0.25v to 5v.




  11. #8
    Go2Sleep's Avatar
    Go2Sleep is online now CarAudio.com Veteran



    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,405
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    89 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    Google: Smd dd-1
    It's a cheaper alternative to a osciliscope to help you identify 1% THD from the source unit all the way back to your amps.
    I use mine all the time and it works very well



    * (2) Morel Ultimo 12's * Hybrid Audio Legathia SE Front Stage * RF 360.3 DSP * Arc Audio XD 1200.6 * JL Audio HD 1200/1 *

  12. #9
    sammcleanaudio's Avatar
    sammcleanaudio is offline Junior Member

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincer77 View Post
    The gain is 0.25v to 5v.
    It's actually not on mine (although this is 'level', not gain)

    Tuning help required!-car-amplifier-dls-perfomance-ca31_2_enl.jpg

    @Go2Sleep: thanks mate will look into that!




  13. #10
    Vincer77's Avatar
    Vincer77 is offline Member



    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Near Nashville, TN
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    23 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    It is. I googled your owners manual to make sure.




  14. #11
    calebkhill's Avatar
    calebkhill is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Phenix City, Alabama
    Posts
    1,101
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    326 Post(s)

    Re: Tuning help required!

    Bro. what locations are your component speakers placed at. Also, what hpf, lpf, bpf settings does you hu and amps allow.
    As far as setting gains, the BEST way is to use an ocope. They can be had 60 bucks on ebay or amazon. Look it up, ARM NANO oscilloscope.

    Also, you need to be able to adjust the volme of your tweeters independently of all your other speakers, or else when you turn up the volme you'll be putting to much power into them than what they need to have.

    Also correct crossover points need to be set, tell us what your hu and amp allows as far as setting crossover points.

    PICS would be great to help us see.
    Also, you need to make sure your speakers are in phase. If not, the sound will sound ugly.
    There are phase test tracks online that will help ypou get your speakers in phase. If using these tracks you find your speakers are out of phase, simply reverse +- on one driver of the set you are testing.
    Theres more to it but itll come as the thread progresses.



    "When I listen to a stereo loudspeaker playback in my room and an auditory scene has formed in my mind, how would I know that what I hear is an accurate replica of an auditory scene that could be had at the recording venue? Or more generally, that this is an auditory scene that could have existed at all?"


Closed Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Need TUNING HELP with new Alpine IVA-D900 HU
    By mav2002 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-22-2003, 11:27 AM
  2. tuning help
    By BassHeadL7 in forum Car Interior/Exterior Enhancements
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-14-2003, 01:33 PM
  3. #'s for box, need tuning help!?!
    By MopeDman in forum Enclosure Design & Construction Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-17-2003, 10:28 PM
  4. Exhuast sound tuning help!!!!
    By swingking03 in forum Car Interior/Exterior Enhancements
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-11-2003, 03:41 PM
  5. tuning help
    By Night Pirate in forum Subwoofers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-10-2002, 12:35 AM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
1e2 Forum