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  1. #16
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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    The concept of tuning EQ to music is ridiculous. If you tune to one song, then the next one might sound like crap because certain frequencies will be way too loud or way too soft. Not all the sounds coming from a particular song has the same db output so how does it make sense to tune to music?

    It seems like if you want go all out with your 1/3 octave 32 band EQ then you better have some kind of measuring equipment/software program, etc, to graph out your response curves on your speakers because you ain't doing **** by ear.







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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    First of all, some of us do the best with what we have. So your 1/3 octave brick of an EQ? Don't have one. If you read the guide, you'd catch the part where if your speakers are properly phased, you're making MINIMAL adjustments to EQ and, even then, only with respect to staging. I followed his technique and had a MUCH easier time than any adjustments by RTA or calibration microphone and I didn't have to break out the equipment.

    Do you ever stop to think why you're using your EQ? It's to correct the fact that your speakers aren't playing accurately. Well, what if you could correct that by making sure your speakers are in phase instead? Humor me. Try the phase switching method and try yours. Post shots of your EQ and RTA responses for everyone to see and then we can have proof. I am, after all, using anecdotal evidence...

    There. Ball's in your court. Now what?



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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
    I'll try to be brief since this thread isn't about the MS-8, but the 31-band graphic EQ on MS-8 isn't the "meat and potatoes" of what it does. It does so much more with the automatic equalization, and the graphic EQ it lets you alter is there to shape the overall sound to the curve you prefer to hear. It tries to EQ the whole system flat initially.

    Even when you have 31 bands of graphic EQ for each channel it isn't enough resolution if your RTA equipment includes a laptop. However, "good enough" on a competitive type of level is far superior to what most people find acceptable in the car.

    When I set time alignment manually for 1 seat listening on a standard installation the subwoofer is left at 0 delay, the back left speaker gets the 2nd least delay, the front right speaker gets a moderate amount of delay, and the front left speaker gets the most delay. This might not work the same depending on the way your head unit/processor works, but that's the concept I learned when I was running Alpine head units. The goal is to get information recorded in mono to sound like it's all floating in one small area above the center of the dash. You can get a nice improvement even if you can't EQ left and right separately, but if you can get the frequency response of each side matching it makes the imaging a lot better than just time alignment alone can ever accomplish.

    As for the overall sound I want to achieve, I use a curve similar to this:

    Right now I have the hump on the bottom end rolling off to 0 by 500 Hz and it stays flat until 8 kHz. I like more zing on the treble and I like the bottom end a bit heavier handed.
    Thank you very much for this post. I have been looking for a model EQ curve and I couldn't find one anywhere.




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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    @Beatin' ;

    You're a retard.



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  7. #20
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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    @Beatin' ;

    You're a retard.
    I lol'd




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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by dragnix View Post
    It's a hobby. Like asking why guys spend thousands to make their daily driver fast when the speed limit is only 65
    i don't disagree with you, but i disagree with dumping thousands of dollars to turn your daily driver into a racecar. it just doesn't make sense...



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  10. #22
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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by neo_styles View Post
    First of all, some of us do the best with what we have. So your 1/3 octave brick of an EQ? Don't have one. If you read the guide, you'd catch the part where if your speakers are properly phased, you're making MINIMAL adjustments to EQ and, even then, only with respect to staging. I followed his technique and had a MUCH easier time than any adjustments by RTA or calibration microphone and I didn't have to break out the equipment.

    Do you ever stop to think why you're using your EQ? It's to correct the fact that your speakers aren't playing accurately. Well, what if you could correct that by making sure your speakers are in phase instead? Humor me. Try the phase switching method and try yours. Post shots of your EQ and RTA responses for everyone to see and then we can have proof. I am, after all, using anecdotal evidence...

    There. Ball's in your court. Now what?
    holy crap dude. You just pulled off one of the most clever strawman arguments I've ever read. You make it sound like it's an equalizer vs phase switching argument, which it clearly is NOT.

    My only argument is that tuning, be it with only an EQ or phase switching, to MUSIC, is not ideal.

    Just like setting gains by ear.....




  11. #23
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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatin' View Post
    holy crap dude. You just pulled off one of the most clever strawman arguments I've ever read. You make it sound like it's an equalizer vs phase switching argument, which it clearly is NOT.

    My only argument is that tuning, be it with only an EQ or phase switching, to MUSIC, is not ideal.

    Just like setting gains by ear.....
    I think you yourself have a bit to learn. Low post count, no credibility, no evidence, and no backup. You'll find plenty of people here who successfully do both setting gains and tuning eq by ear with great results. Where are you drawing your basis that you can't do these things? You do realize that ruler flat by RTA does not mean perfect sound, right? Every set of ears is different and some of us tune to our own ears' abilities.



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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Wow, talk about turning a topic into a B!t$# fest. If you have something that proves something wrong say your piece and keep it moving. Because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you come back and start attacking, it makes you look like an A$$ or a child. You want some one to bend down and bow to you for your 2 cents of what you deem wisdom? Come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    Thank you very much for this post. I have been looking for a model EQ curve and I couldn't find one anywhere.
    Glad you found this useful, hopefully if the back and forth crap can be kept out and people stay on topic, more useful EQing and delaying techniques for staging can be shared.




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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    If it's me you're referring to, I was trying to offer input and didn't think it was being well-received. Did you get a chance to look at the DIYMA link I posted?



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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatin' View Post
    yeah yeah I know it's a hobby and all.....

    ....but time alignment? Seriously? lololol

    In the years I've been listening to music, I've never said "gee wiz, I'm getting time alignment issues..."

    maybe I can't notice these things? Maybe I'm better off...

    I got infinity speakers that are all stock. I threw out the drivers side door speaker because the spider failed. I have no 6x9's in the back because they blew up. I have no EQ, proccessors, etc, and it's still satisfactory.

    Could it be better with more equipment? Yeah............

    Do I want to go that far? No.......

    Sometimes good enough is good enough.

    But anyway, here's my setup on my Sony Xplod HU.

    Loudness: ON
    Low: 0
    Mid: 0
    High: +5
    Bal: 0
    Fad: 0
    Sub: 0
    LPF: 160hz
    HPF: 160hz

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    @Beatin' ;

    You're a retard.
    ^^This about sums it up.



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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatin' View Post
    The concept of tuning EQ to music is ridiculous. If you tune to one song, then the next one might sound like crap because certain frequencies will be way too loud or way too soft. Not all the sounds coming from a particular song has the same db output so how does it make sense to tune to music?

    It seems like if you want go all out with your 1/3 octave 32 band EQ then you better have some kind of measuring equipment/software program, etc, to graph out your response curves on your speakers because you ain't doing **** by ear.
    This isn't even open for debate. Professionals use a combination of calibrated measuring equipment and their ears to tune a system with a 1/3 octave EQ or better. Anyone who thinks they can adequately rely on their "trained" hearing alone is making it far more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be. This is in the context of tuning to correct for the room as well as the frequency response of the speakers. For an amateur with a basic 5-band parametric or similar EQ, tune however you like. It's your car and you're tuning for your own preferred sound, so don't worry about what someone on the Internet thinks. I would still personally check the response with at least a smartphone RTA with the mic pointed at the speakers to have an idea of how bad the response is to begin.

    The car really screws with the sound before it arrives at our ears.




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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
    This isn't even open for debate. Professionals use a combination of calibrated measuring equipment and their ears to tune a system with a 1/3 octave EQ or better. Anyone who thinks they can adequately rely on their "trained" hearing alone is making it far more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be. This is in the context of tuning to correct for the room as well as the frequency response of the speakers. For an amateur with a basic 5-band parametric or similar EQ, tune however you like. It's your car and you're tuning for your own preferred sound, so don't worry about what someone on the Internet thinks. I would still personally check the response with at least a smartphone RTA with the mic pointed at the speakers to have an idea of how bad the response is to begin.

    The car really screws with the sound before it arrives at our ears.
    That's pretty much what I have to do right now since I don't have active capability or processing. It annoys me to no end, though, that the RTA apps on iDevices won't display any info below where their HPF kicks in for noise cancellation. Makes it impossible to tune 200Hz and under for me. Any suggestions?



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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    Quote Originally Posted by neo_styles View Post
    That's pretty much what I have to do right now since I don't have active capability or processing. It annoys me to no end, though, that the RTA apps on iDevices won't display any info below where their HPF kicks in for noise cancellation. Makes it impossible to tune 200Hz and under for me. Any suggestions?
    Make sure your speakers are in phase. Sometimes putting one mid out of phase can make a nice difference for how it sounds from the driver's seat. When I had an Alpine H700 it was easy to flip the phase of one speaker, and doing it on just one of the two mids I ran helped with the imaging of midbass and lower midrange frequencies. Maybe your RTA app lets you add a filter to counteract the iOS bass filter. That to me seems like a shot in the dark, so maybe you should just tune the bass by ear.




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    Re: EQing and delaying your stage

    So here are my curves. This isn't eqed for the cars acoustics, because I'm changing my speakers soon, just eqed for my general enjoyment for now.
    Front is eqed for vocals and high stuff to stand out.
    Rear is eqed to cut the pronounced vocals out but have the "air" of them, and have some high end stuff. Also want bass out of it, but not the heavy stuff.
    Sub is eqed for the majority of bottom end without the rumble. Want more punch than boom.

    Still playing around with it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails EQing and delaying your stage-final-rear.jpg   EQing and delaying your stage-final-front.jpg   EQing and delaying your stage-final-sub.jpg  




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