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  1. #31
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    Yea, it can get expensive,lol. But well worth it if you enjoy great music or ever want to compete. But as far as competing, my question is, as for pro-rabbit, if the judge is to be bias on the setup, why compete in the first place? it should be based on measured response and staging and placement, not looks or subjectiveness. Just a random thought. But yea, you should be good and are on the right track, alexe
    thanks for all the info and help, ill keep talking through ebay so we can work on this box but youve helped so much man! im sure ill have plenty more questions when i get to building this thing but for now i think im good! thanks again







  2. #32
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    Re: build advice

    Awesome! Talk to you soon! And don't rely on just myself though, many others here will be able to help as well, when the time comes for actually installing the big three, and everything. A lot of knowledge in here for you to utilize, as long as they are willing to give it.





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  3. #33
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    I understand what you are saying, rabbit, but without calculations, no one would have an idea of where to start. And they are accurate enough now days to be very reliable in the field. Its those that have been in the field for a while that do not understand correct formulas that have given the audio community the subjective accuracy of theory. What people do not understand about formulas is they can be general, yes, but can also be utilized for higher accuracy. I'm not talking about simple box calculators and port calculators and crap like that either. Those, yes, I agree.....do not rely on them alone, but only to get a starting point. But once you get further into it, the calculations, being that sound is physical and physics are absolute in theory vs practical, can be very accurrate. There will always be a sense of fine tuning, but this is obvious, as vehicles are very tough to calculate to the exact frequency and dB levels due to the oblique shapes they have. But you would be amazed at how far you can go before any fine tuning is done.
    I do not want to have to argue this again, but I will.
    If you are referring to subwoofer sensitivity then you will be fighting a losing battle all day. The real issue is how to you talk then when told your wrong you do not like that answer.

    If in the field you mean building, testing, and pulling T/S for various companies then yes I have been in the "field" for a long time. However, I still know that the sensitivity given to a subwoofer is not relevant in any way what so ever(for anything, this is not home audio here). Now if we are talking pro audio or home audio then that changes things drastically as T/S specs become much more accurate and usable. Mobile audio does not work like that.
    Last edited by pro-rabbit; 08-12-2011 at 11:02 AM.




  4. #34
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-rabbit View Post
    If you are referring to subwoofer sensitivity then you will be fighting a losing battle all day. As for 90% of everything else you say I'm not going to get into that debate right now. If you would like to discuss what I'm talking about feel free to call me.
    No losing battle. No any battle. It's common sense, you know that. I don't believe you have an idea what I know yet, lol. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over who is right and wrong, because I think we might be getting to the point where we both are right about something. And if you have anything to say, please discuss it here, so everyone knows, and may learn from it. Not sure if that is a threat or not, but if so, be careful what you say. You are not arguing with someone off the street. If not, I can see where you are just trying to explain things to me. I believe you know a lot about audio, no doubt, but do not come at someone I am trying to help and tell them what I am saying is irrelevant. That is rude. And I will not accept that. I do see where you were trying to help though, and for that, awesome. Any help is appreciated. But never say what I tell someone is not pertaining to the subject. That basically said, "do not listen to him". I can talk about sensitivity all day if you like, and I'm sure we will be on the same page, as it is all solid information anyhow, no matter how you look at it. Do not try to battle with me. It will get you no where. You will be right about what you say, and so will I. That being said, thank you for the reply, and stand your ground if you are right. That's all. I like your work, you're a great person from what I have read, but you are about to make enemies of the wrong person.





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  5. #35
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    Re: build advice

    The whole idea is to help this guy, not for two supporting members to clash it out over who has more knowledge or whatever the case. So, please be appreciative. okay?





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  6. #36
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    Re: build advice

    I would though, like for us to talk about competition for sound quality? How do you go about judging that? I am curoius, not in a sarcastic way, seriously. That would be great for a thread. Since you are a judge. I would appreciate if you could talk about that, that would be kewl.





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  7. #37
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    No losing battle. No any battle. It's common sense, you know that. I don't believe you have an idea what I know yet, lol. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over who is right and wrong, because I think we might be getting to the point where we both are right about something. And if you have anything to say, please discuss it here, so everyone knows, and may learn from it. Not sure if that is a threat or not, but if so, be careful what you say. You are not arguing with someone off the street. If not, I can see where you are just trying to explain things to me. I believe you know a lot about audio, no doubt, but do not come at someone I am trying to help and tell them what I am saying is irrelevant. That is rude. And I will not accept that. I do see where you were trying to help though, and for that, awesome. Any help is appreciated. But never say what I tell someone is not pertaining to the subject. That basically said, "do not listen to him". I can talk about sensitivity all day if you like, and I'm sure we will be on the same page, as it is all solid information anyhow, no matter how you look at it. Do not try to battle with me. It will get you no where. You will be right about what you say, and so will I. That being said, thank you for the reply, and stand your ground if you are right. That's all. I like your work, you're a great person from what I have read, but you are about to make enemies of the wrong person.
    You threaten way to much. I told you to call if you like. It was not a threat how would it be? I would be glad to assist you with some extra experience which you have not had. I'm not being rude in anyway. What you are talking about in this very topic was over kill and not relevant to the situation. Exposing someone to audio is great if that is what they want. Exposing some one to subjects which they do not want to know will just over load them and many times push them away from the forum itself. I'm glad you like to post the way you do and I'm sure you help various people out a lot. However, to suggest that you have a greater knowledge base then anyone is just assuming you know less then you really do.

    You come off as far to cocky and rude half the time. Then to threaten me various times in one post is just laughable. Perhaps it is your people skills which you need to work on. Now, I'm moving on from the subject of you as that is not what this tread is about. Perhaps you should do the same as you are just making yourself look worse by throwing around empty threats.




  8. #38
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    I would though, like for us to talk about competition for sound quality? How do you go about judging that? I am curoius, not in a sarcastic way, seriously. That would be great for a thread. Since you are a judge. I would appreciate if you could talk about that, that would be kewl.
    Honestly, when the testing was done it was far worse then being subjective by the judge with far more complaints. The testing showed exact results but no one could ever agree on a how test, what to test with, and of course everyone tested at home and it was not the same at the show...that was a huge problem in itself. There is a rating system for various attributes of the system. This is for USACi by the way, I do not judge for any other orgs any longer except for DB Drag.

    Even with being "up to the judge" it seems to go smoothly, but I have no idea how. I tend to upset many people when judging as I judge different then others....

    When I was competing I used to reset my system per each judge to ensure I took first place ever show including at finals various times.




  9. #39
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-rabbit View Post
    You threaten way to much. I told you to call if you like. It was not a threat how would it be? I would be glad to assist you with some extra experience which you have not had. I'm not being rude in anyway. What you are talking about in this very topic was over kill and not relevant to the situation. Exposing someone to audio is great if that is what they want. Exposing some one to subjects which they do not want to know will just over load them and many times push them away from the forum itself. I'm glad you like to post the way you do and I'm sure you help various people out a lot. However, to suggest that you have a greater knowledge base then anyone is just assuming you know less then you really do.

    You come off as far to cocky and rude half the time. Then to threaten me various times in one post is just laughable. Perhaps it is your people skills which you need to work on. Now, I'm moving on from the subject of you as that is not what this tread is about. Perhaps you should do the same as you are just making yourself look worse by throwing around empty threats.
    Wow. That is a great post. Very strong words. I feel terrible you feel that way. I am not being cocky, though, I promise. And my knowledge is not greater than anyone else. I believe I did mention that before. But anyhow, I see how you could think that. So for that, I am sorry if i seem to come off that way. . My people skills are very good. I love to communicate with others. But here is one thing I agree with you about on this.......I did come off a little too technical, but I still feel it is relevant. So, I guess I get where your coming from. But please do not assume I have no experience. I have hands on 10 years along with being a military sound technician, and Devry university for electronics engineering and acoustical engineering. Hands on, it's there as well, I promise. But if you would like to help anyone understand more, please do so, that is what this forum is about! Just do not think I am cocky. Far from it. I have mentioned many times in numerous threads how I believe there are many knowledgeable people here. You will find out that the more you talk to me, the more I open up and feel good about it. So, for that, I hope you understand that the things you say about me are wrong assumptions. And I do not throw empty threats, my friend. I have been around enough. I was in Spec ops. I do what I say I will do and get it done. Ive been on a few missions that were successful, so, I do not threaten, I just get it done if needed. But we should all be good here. I get it. You are jsut trying to help, and you did! Thank you for telling me I am giving too much information for someone who will not understand it. I believe everyone will understand it eventually though. We are all here to excel, and how can we do that if we are stuck on the same assumptions as before, when we first got into audio? That was my point. I hope this helps you understand my purpose more.

    ---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-rabbit View Post
    Honestly, when the testing was done it was far worse then being subjective by the judge with far more complaints. The testing showed exact results but no one could ever agree on a how test, what to test with, and of course everyone tested at home and it was not the same at the show...that was a huge problem in itself. There is a rating system for various attributes of the system. This is for USACi by the way, I do not judge for any other orgs any longer except for DB Drag.

    Even with being "up to the judge" it seems to go smoothly, but I have no idea how. I tend to upset many people when judging as I judge different then others....

    When I was competing I used to reset my system per each judge to ensure I took first place ever show including at finals various times.
    That kewl, though, that you do not judge the same. That shows character.





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    Re: build advice

    I commend you on what you do! It seems like a great thing. But how do they get upset? I don't understand that? If you are doing the job correctly, maybe they jsut get upset about the truth? Have you ever had anyone yell at you before for telling them the flaws of the system and such?





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    Re: build advice

    See, my people skills are not that bad, lol. I bet I can get you to like me again.............LMAO





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    Re: build advice

    I was not suggesting you didn't have experience, was merely offering you mine to extend yours.




  13. #43
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-rabbit View Post
    I was not suggesting you didn't have experience, was merely offering you mine to extend yours.
    No need. Trust me, but thank you!





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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    I commend you on what you do! It seems like a great thing. But how do they get upset? I don't understand that? If you are doing the job correctly, maybe they jsut get upset about the truth? Have you ever had anyone yell at you before for telling them the flaws of the system and such?
    The main issue is that when they compete at a small show and they get new judges scoring their system. Then when they come to larger shows and myself or other more "seasoned" judges score their system they do not do as well. That upsets just about everyone of course. Then when they ask why the score was different then before and we explain what was missing or not "up to par" they get upset even more...which typically results in a yelling contest between competitors and/or judges. I do my best to stay calm, but it is not always an option as it can become heated to the point were tempers get the best of people and physical action takes place.

    When a competition is scored by judge's preference there will always be issues. Not really anyway around that. Finals is by far the worse though. It does help the time pass though haha.




  15. #45
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    Re: build advice

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-rabbit View Post
    If you are referring to subwoofer sensitivity then you will be fighting a losing battle all day. The real issue is how to you talk then when told your wrong you do not like that answer.

    If in the field you mean building, testing, and pulling T/S for various companies then yes I have been in the "field" for a long time. However, I still know that the sensitivity given to a subwoofer is not relevant in any way what so ever(for anything, this is not home audio here). Now if we are talking pro audio or home audio then that changes things drastically as T/S specs become much more accurate and usable. Mobile audio does not work like that.
    Quite the contrary. Mobile audio differs mainly in the aspect of room acoustics alone. In any given electrical system, components for the same use, will be used the same in car audio. The t/s parameters of a driver are more accurate in HT setups because the response gathered from the parameters changes in relation to the room size, and sensitivity is more of an issue due to distance in relation to dB levels, but in a vehicle it is important in the aspect of reflection loss. When a driver is more sensitive, it can play at levels equal to other drivers with less sensitivity, using less applied power. In HT, this is more of a concern for that reason alone, but in car audio, especially at higher freqeuncies, it can change the sound of a system just as much. From around 150Hz and below, to many room modes exist, for it to be completely accurate. But still can be partially used for somewhat of a matching output level.

    ---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-rabbit View Post
    The main issue is that when they compete at a small show and they get new judges scoring their system. Then when they come to larger shows and myself or other more "seasoned" judges score their system they do not do as well. That upsets just about everyone of course. Then when they ask why the score was different then before and we explain what was missing or not "up to par" they get upset even more...which typically results in a yelling contest between competitors and/or judges. I do my best to stay calm, but it is not always an option as it can become heated to the point were tempers get the best of people and physical action takes place.

    When a competition is scored by judge's preference there will always be issues. Not really anyway around that. Finals is by far the worse though. It does help the time pass though haha.
    Nice, lol





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