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    Icon32 Need a lil help all.

    Im putting together a system for my 92 Nissan maxima.

    custom ported box
    Two JL 12W7s (trunk)
    Four JL XR100-CT (1" alluminum dome tweeters)(2 in front, 2 in back)
    Two JL XR650-CW (6.5" drivers) (custom fit in rear doors)
    Two 6x9 Pioneer 4 ways (latest are over 300 watt apiece i think)

    Already installed:
    pair of Pioneer 6.5 120 watt 3 ways. (front)
    pair of Pioneer 6x9 260 watt 4 ways. (rear)

    I want one 4 channel amp for the pioneers. (800.4 ?)
    One 4 channel amp for the tweeters. (200.4 - 300.4 - 400.4 ?)
    a 1 channel regulated mono bass amp for each W7.
    (considering 1200 or 2500Ds. 1200@2ohm, 2500@4ohm)
    One 2 channel amp for the midbass drivers. (200.2 - 300.2 ?)
    And last but not least one 2 channel amp for the newer 6x9s
    (800.2? 600.2? 400.2?)

    ===========================
    Okedoke. I know what i want and ive researched it pretty good.
    In case anything cannot be wired or amped without any problems, im willing to ditch a pair of tweeters, the drivers, and the extra set of 6x9s. that eliminates 2 amps there, and notches the amp for the remaining set of tweeters to what.. a 100.2?
    im not trying to blow out my tweeters..

    What i have to know is.. What kind of equipment do i need to fill in the cracks? and how many of them!?
    -----------------
    Equalizer?
    Signal Processor?
    Capacitor? (what farad? how many?)
    Juicebox?
    Battery? (a certainty, but which one? what type? two of em?)
    Alternator? (DUH, what type? will it fit? what amperage?)
    Suggested amplifiers for my stuff?
    Master Volume Control?
    Battery terminals?
    Fuseboxes?
    Distribution Blocks?
    -----------------

    I gotta know what i need to complete this system.
    component wise, not brand or model wise, just components, then i can figure out what id like.







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    helotaxi's Avatar
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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    It looks as if you are about to spend a good bit of money and I assume that you want good sound quality and a good bit of quantity as well. A few observations and a few suggestions.

    1) As your system design looks now, you are looking at a ton of amplification which will require a ton of current from your alternator, a ton of wiring and a ton of weight added to your car.

    2) You will be running a ton of speakers that will all be playing the same frequencies. The result will not be what you expect. Cancellation issues will lead to a really ragged overall frequency response and horrible imaging, both left to right and front to rear.

    3) You are buying a good component set and putting them in the rear rather than replacing the merely OK speakers you have up front right now.

    Suggestions:

    1) Ditch the Pioneer front speakers, at least one set of 6x9s and the extra set of tweeters. You can ditch all the amps that go with those as well.

    2) Spend the money you just freed up to get a good set of 4.5 or 5.25 components. Have those custom mounted in the kickpanels.

    3) Get a good set of 6.5 midbasses and put them in the doors in place of the Pioneers you currently have up front.

    4) Get a two channel amp for the front components that produces about 50-75 watts per channel. Get a two channel amp for the midbasses that produces about 100-150 watts per channel. Give the subs between 500 and 1000 watts each (remember that they are 3 ohms each and that will give you some weird power figures) and I think you will be happy.

    5) Rear speakers are entirely up to you, but for quality sound, they are not needed. They won't need much power at all and can actually be run off the same amp as the front components with the help of a small resistor.

    Now as far as other stuff you are going to need.

    1)You never mentioned a head unit. You need a source unit to run everything. There are tons to choose from. It will provide your master volume and if it has processing built in (most of the newer high end ones do) it will provide your crossover and EQ and sub volume control as well.

    2)Wiring. You will need at least 1/0 wiring to run from the battery to the distrubution block in the trunk. You will need at least 4ga power and ground to each sub amp and at least 8 ga each for your high freq and midbass amps. You will need to split the 1/0 into the smaller sizes with distro blocks. Easiest way would be to break it down to 3 4ga and break one of those into 2 8ga using 2 blocks. You will need terminals for the battery and you will need an inline ANL type fuse installed as close to the battery as possible (within 18"). For good stuff at good prices check out knukonceptz. You can also find the RCA cables you will need there.

    3)Power. A new alternator will be a must. It is always better to go bigger from the beginning and realize that you have more than you need than to upgrade and realize that you didn't go big enough and have to upgrade again. Go big. I don't know what is available for your car, but I am sure that there are others on this forum that can help you in that regard. A new battery won't really be needed if you get a big enough alternator. With a system as big as you are building I wouldn't turn it on without the car running so the battery is not going to be an issue. Cap is not needed.

    If you have any more questions, ask.



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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Ok first off, i want to thank you for your quick reply and advice.
    and i also want to apologize for my slow response. ive read over it a few times but havnt had time to reply. As im still pretty new to the whole car audio thing, so i will still have some questions..
    ill abbreviate your questions and add answers/comments.

    1) As your system design looks now/...
    >>ew but yea.

    2) You will be running a ton of speakers/...
    >>hmm ok. so i will eliminate a few speakers. 4 speakers is ok with me. or keeping the 6x9s in the back and swapping the fronts with a component set like you said. my concerns will follow below.

    3) You are buying a good component set/...
    >>actually i havnt decided on that yet. I know i needed a pair of tweeters and just thought oh what the hell ill put another pair in to keep it all balanced in the cabin. But what i really wanted was sound in front, bass in the middle, sound in back and then the bass engine in the trunk. If i can custom fit the component set in the back doors, or just the drivers then sweet. But i dont want them in the front, because then where do my 6.5 pioneers go? cant really sell em.. their worth maybe $60? Plus, my kickpanels arent customized. So how much does it cost to make a custom piece and integrate it into the doors??
    my main question was.. is there anything in that area of my rear doors that would interfere with such an installation.
    If its not too much per door, ill just get two component sets and put em in both doors, and ditch the pioneer 6.5s. or put em in the trunk. But you said the sound will be crappy... Isnt that what signal processors are for? or are those for systems with a whole lot of wiring?

    Suggestions:

    1) Ditch the Pioneer front speakers/...
    >>sounds like a plan. you meant ditch the 6x9s i was thinking about getting right? not the ones in the back. and get component sets custom mounted in my kickpanels. i like it. rear doors?

    2) Spend the money you just freed/...
    >>what about 6 or 6.5s?

    3) Get a good set of 6.5 midbasses/...
    >>Im confused, do #2 and #3 go together? or is it an either or suggestion? Did you mean get the component sets for the front doors, and then add bigger drivers on top of that? (i like that too.. but itd cost a dime or two im guessing)

    4) Get a two channel amp for the front/...
    >>a two channel amp for the tweeters, and a more powerful 2 channel amp for the drivers? no prob.
    Ive made up my mind on the bassengine and amps.
    If i go with the JL 12W7s, i will pair each with a 500/1 amp.
    But im tempted to up the ante and go with the 13W7s, and up the amps to two 1000/1s.

    >>What say you? bump or buummp?

    5) Rear speakers are entirely up to you/...
    >>In my eyes, i got a great set of speakers in the back already.
    But id like to put some power through em, like another two channel amp. But is that too many Amps in the car? I dont want to put too much stress on any of my amps. Id just like to keep all power freeflowing. Would another amp be too much for the rear 6x9s? or can i just run them off the head unit stock even with all the amplifiers and new equipment? will there be any extra cables available for the 6x9s?

    Now as far as other stuff you are going to need.
    1)You never mentioned a head unit/...
    >>Everyone is telling me Eclipse, and while theyre great on the stats, their ugly as hell. So im looking at the $500+ Alpine and Clarion models. Im looking at the Kenwood Excelon MP969 or something like that, its gotta motorized/camaflauged face, and 3 pairs of 5v preouts. All that EQ stuff included. Any suggestions on non-horriffic looking head units?

    2)Wiring/...
    >>Sweet. wiring. Monster Cable?
    ok whats 1/0 wire? 1 ga? thick heat resistant industrial stuff?
    Of all my questions asked in all the forums im in, nobody has helped me understand how the cables are wired. So alternator to ground and battery and all that? then battery to fuses, then cabled to trunk to a distro block, and possible other distro blocks? correct?

    >>Distro blocks i can get anything Audiobahn about 30% off at least from a bud. and i like their EQs and distro blocks and fuse blocks. Whats an ANL type fuse? the flat looking ones?
    www.audiobahnconnections.com is where i hope to shop.

    >>Im lookin at... 1 big distro block and a smaller one? two smaller ones? a fusebox thing under the hood? what size? one in the trunk as well? If you take a look there could you give me an idea on how many fuses in the box i should be looking at? or model #s would be great. I would just look, and say that looks good, and thats nice, and ill get this best one here, but im not sure, so i will always try to get the best and most expensive one they got just to be safe. id like to NOT do that. and just get what i need and maybe a notch better.

    3)Power. A new alternator will be a must/...
    >>With what i got now... i dont run the sound past half volume with the engine off.. I will definately run my new system ONLY when the engine is on. What i want to do is get those flip-style kill switches mounted under my radio, or more, so i can kill power to my extra systems. Probably only the JL bassengine. what do ya think? a switch for each amp, next to each other, and a switch for the subs? is it safer that way to kill the sub, then the amp? like a computer shutdown? programs then comp? then start it up by flipping power to the amps, then the subs? or can you just have one switch that kills power to the amp which kills power to the sub. Whatevers better. I dont care how many switches there are, but id rather have one per amp. Im guessing i might have a few bass control knobs near my feet somewhere... Could i get those custom mounted below the switches? i have two Head unit size spots in my dash that i can replace.
    >>My goal is to, while i have family in the car, kill all the extra noise, and just run a simple system, just regular speakers. And whenever else, switch on my bassengine. This is also good because ordanances are tough around here and other areas i travel in.
    >>Ignited something ive seen in a few magazines have switches like that. good idea or no?


    If you have any more questions, ask/...
    >> Just did, thanks alot man. sorry if i wrote/asked too much.
    Gotta learn right?

    ~Jon




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Does the model under the hood have to be waterproof? how many fuses?is it just 1/0 to 1/0 and then to the trunk? and then another 1/0 to four 4ga cables? does that sound right? does it matter if its digital? if its digital can it be hooked up to one of those meters and mounted up in the dash?
    im checkin out knuconcepts now, but like the look of the audiobahn equip better..
    Im also going to look at measureeverything.com




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberJon
    3) You are buying a good component set/...
    >>actually i havnt decided on that yet. So how much does it cost to make a custom piece and integrate it into the doors??
    If its not too much per door, ill just get two component sets and put em in both doors, and ditch the pioneer 6.5s. or put em in the trunk. But you said the sound will be crappy... Isnt that what signal processors are for? or are those for systems with a whole lot of wiring?
    All the signal processors in the world can't help a bad set of speakers sound good. Your money will best be spent on a good set of components. The only place those speakers will be properly used is up front. The system is for your enjoyment so why should you be listening to the marginal quality Pioneers. Custom kickpanels will probably cost the same as custom door work in the back and will definitely be money better spent. If you don't want to do custom kicks, you can always just go with a 6 1/2" component set. A good set will be able provide good midbass response and still sound good through the rest of the frequency range. No real custom work required.
    1) Ditch the Pioneer front speakers/...
    >>sounds like a plan. you meant ditch the 6x9s i was thinking about getting right? not the ones in the back. and get component sets custom mounted in my kickpanels. i like it. rear doors?
    I meant the 6 1/2 Pioneers you have in the doors. Replace them with either a good midbass in the door and components in the kickpanels or a good component set in the doors.
    2) Spend the money you just freed/...
    >>what about 6 or 6.5s?
    3) Get a good set of 6.5 midbasses/...
    >>Im confused, do #2 and #3 go together? or is it an either or suggestion? Did you mean get the component sets for the front doors, and then add bigger drivers on top of that? (i like that too.. but itd cost a dime or two im guessing)
    It was a both thing. Replace the 6.5s in the doors with a good 6.5" midbass and then put a good component set in the kickpanels
    4) Get a two channel amp for the front/...
    >>a two channel amp for the tweeters, and a more powerful 2 channel amp for the drivers? no prob.
    Actually get one amp to power the components (both the mid and the tweet) and a more powerful amp for the midbasses if you go that route. If you go for just a component set get one pretty powerful amp to power the whole thing.
    Ive made up my mind on the bassengine and amps.
    If i go with the JL 12W7s, i will pair each with a 500/1 amp.
    But im tempted to up the ante and go with the 13W7s, and up the amps to two 1000/1s.
    By all accounts those subs will enjoy having the extra power of the 1000/1s. If money isn't a problem, go for it. You could also start with one of 1000/1 (same power as the two 500/1s and easier to wire and cheaper) and then if you decide that you need more, get another.
    5) Rear speakers are entirely up to you/...
    >>In my eyes, i got a great set of speakers in the back already.
    But id like to put some power through em, like another two channel amp. But is that too many Amps in the car? I dont want to put too much stress on any of my amps. Id just like to keep all power freeflowing. Would another amp be too much for the rear 6x9s? or can i just run them off the head unit stock even with all the amplifiers and new equipment? will there be any extra cables available for the 6x9s?
    If you are set keeping the rear speakers, get a mid size 4-channel amp to power both the rear speakers and the front components, and then keep the gain on the rear channels set fairly low so they don't drown out the good front speakers. If you do it right up front, you will not miss the rear speakers, but its your system.
    1)You never mentioned a head unit/...
    >>Everyone is telling me Eclipse, and while theyre great on the stats, their ugly as hell. So im looking at the $500+ Alpine and Clarion models. Im looking at the Kenwood Excelon MP969 or something like that, its gotta motorized/camaflauged face, and 3 pairs of 5v preouts. All that EQ stuff included. Any suggestions on non-horriffic looking head units?
    Once you get past the 9813 Alpine unit, the only thing you get for the extra money of the more expensive units is the bells and whistles on the display. The EQ, crossover and preamp functions are exactly the same. I have a 9813 myself because I couldn't justify the extra expense of the higher priced units, the display wasn't worth it to me. Kenwood makes some good decks, but look at all the different models to find the features you need and don't pay more than you have to.
    2)Wiring/...
    >>Sweet. wiring. Monster Cable?
    ok whats 1/0 wire? 1 ga? thick heat resistant industrial stuff?
    Of all my questions asked in all the forums im in, nobody has helped me understand how the cables are wired. So alternator to ground and battery and all that? then battery to fuses, then cabled to trunk to a distro block, and possible other distro blocks? correct?
    It's 0ga actually and with the type of power you are talking about one run of it will the minimum to run from the battery.
    >>Distro blocks i can get anything Audiobahn about 30% off at least from a bud. and i like their EQs and distro blocks and fuse blocks. Whats an ANL type fuse? the flat looking ones?
    If you like the looks of the Audiobahn fuse blocks and distro block then get them. Knukonceptz has really good prices, but they don't have 1/0 to 4ga fused distro blocks. They also don't have 4ga fuse blocks that are multiple block. I really like their two tone wire from a looks standpoint, but wire is pretty much wire. Get whatever you can get cheap. Fuse blocks pretty much come down to looks and type of fuse. Types of fuses are: 1)ANL-the really big flat ones that are used for high current (up to 300A). These are the ones you usually have under the hood near the battery.
    2)MIDI-these are basically smaller versions of the ANL.
    3)MAXI-these are larger versions of the blade type fuses that you have in you car fuse panel. They make them up to 100A but the 80A are the largest commonly available.
    4)AGU-these are the round glass fuses that most people are familiar with.

    If I were you I would look on eBay for the Stinger HPM series stuff. They make a 2 position MIDI block that will take 1/0 in a give 2 4ga out for your sub amps and a maching MIDI block that takes a 1/0 in and 2 4ga out for your midbass and high frequency amps. If I were running the kind of power you are looking at, I personally would run dual 1/0 from the battery to the rear and then split to 4ga there. Each 1/0 will need its own inline fuse, ANL is the only way to go here and since they're under the hood, they should be waterproof. It might be a bit of overkill for the high freq amps but better too big than too small when it comes to wire.
    >>Im lookin at... 1 big distro block and a smaller one? two smaller ones? a fusebox thing under the hood? what size? one in the trunk as well?
    Fuseblocks are fuseblocks the only difference from one model to another is the styling and the finish. As long as it takes the size wire you need and the type/size fuse you need any other difference is cosmetic not functional. Like I said above, two ANL fuses under the hood running to two fuseblocks in the trunk. The part number for the ANL fuseblock is FH-20 from Knukonceptz. The two rear blocks I mentioned above are SF2MDPT from Stinger. You will need battery terminals as well. Your best bet would either be the Knukonceptz ones with two ring terminals on the Pos to get all the 1/0 outputs you need. You will need 3 1/0 wires off the battery unfortuantely and no one that I know of makes a terminal with 3 1/0 outputs. You will need the 2 to go to the trunk and 1 to the alternator. You will use the small ga output on the Knuconceptz terminal to go to the car's power distribution system. You may have to do some creative power distribution under the hood to get power to all the places you need it (car's electrical system, starter, etc...). They're all parallel circuits so as long as you keep the pos and the neg separate and use big enough wire, you can move distribution stuff around a bit to make it all work.

    3)Power. A new alternator will be a must/...
    What i want to do is get those flip-style kill switches mounted under my radio, or more, so i can kill power to my extra systems
    >>My goal is to, while i have family in the car, kill all the extra noise, and just run a simple system, just regular speakers. And whenever else, switch on my bassengine. This is also good because ordanances are tough around here and other areas i travel in.
    It's pretty easy to do, really. Just power down the amp. Each amp has a turn on lead. Ideally you should run the HU turn-on lead to a relay and use the relay to power up all the amps. Just splice in another relay to your kill switch for the sub amps. You don't necessarily want a relay in the signal path (wires going to subs themselves) because you will probably cook it with too much current. Just power down the amp and you are good to go. Another option is to just turn down the sub output on the HU when you don't want the subs going.

    Any other questions?



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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Ok i thought about this yesterday and forgot to mention it in my reply.

    Doors and kickpanels. The difference is? door on one side kickpanel on the other? I truely must sound like a noob on this one..

    Because i only have a hole big enough for the 6.5" speaker or driver. If i mounted the tweeter in the door NEAR the driver itd have to be custom cut and mounted. Of all the examples ive seen of component sets, its usually a lil fiberglass housing that sticks out an inch or so and tries to aim the drivers and components up at you, and towards the center of the cabin.

    Is this what you mean? Ideally thats what id like. But ill mount the tweeters anywhere as long as they arent obviously sticking out (i have a light interior) and isnt so close to my head that its giving me a headache.

    Im cool with an amp for the 6x9s, and another amp to power the component sets. Thing is... a buddy of mine, Glasswolf, said to just get like a 500.4 or 450/4 amplifier and run the components through it. Okay. thats one amp channel per component, one for each driver (2) and tweeter (2) thing is, are crossovers involved? or do you use those if i were to use a 2ch amplifier?
    Id rather have one big amp that powers it all, instead of 2 seperate amps i dont really have room for. I mean, i could, but the customization would cost more in the trunk.
    Where else could i mount the amps? nowhere up front that i can tell. unless i get a false floor put in on the passenger side with a plexiglass window. (hmmmmmm...) ooo ill look into that...

    Thats the only thing thats slowin me down, education wise.
    the understanding about the drivers and components.

    >>>>>I meant the 6 1/2 Pioneers you have in the doors. Replace them with either a good midbass in the door and components in the kickpanels or a good component set in the doors.

    ok re-reading this brings me to the cautious conclusion that the kickpanel is seperate from the door. hope im right. Where is the kickpanel? And id like the driver and tweeter mounted nearby each other. Is it better to get an amp for the tweets, and a seperate amp for the drivers? I think so, but is it any worse to just get a powerful 4ch amp that will power them all below their max power allowance?

    Once i get the kinks worked out on the front door situation... Then ill get the 1000/1s for the 12s, lie them side to side in the trunk on the floor, and maybe put the amp for the 6x9s in the middle of the two 1000/1s, with a plexiglass window over it, and a custom airflow system that i designed a while ago on AutoCAD to keep the amps cool. sound good?

    I dont need an additional EQ? or any strange thing like that?
    Just basically connectors and wiring?

    oh ohhh.. battery terminals. you said i need a 1-3 triple for the positive? dont they both have to get grounded? or can i just leave that to my installer and look over it later? Arent there special batteries with extra tall battery posts that i can just toss two positive terminals on? or something like that? I could search around for a 1-3 1/0 positive terminal. think they exist? If a 1-2 is out there im pretty sure a 1-3 would.

    When talking about splitting the 1/0 into two 1/0s from the battery, and running TWO 1/0 lines to the trunk to a 2-1 distro block, is that for better power travel or something? or did you mean 1-2 and then 2 to seperate distros?
    From a logic point of view (and my overkill instinct) i like the idea of 1-2 for the trip to the trunk, and then 2-1, and then distributed again to wherever it needs to go.

    Another question on the fuses. i mentioned it earlier i think.. but dont remember a reply on it..
    Do i need a fuseblock unit for anything in the trunk? its probably not necessary, but say i wanted it there just for show, it wont bottleneck power flow will it? If it is necessary, would i just use a 4 out box and seperate the lines again as necessary?

    Logic dictates that keeping the resistance low is good... and all the things im thinking of adding would kind of all add up in the resistance arena right? keep the lengths of cable the shortest, and the amount of bumps in the road to to a minimum?

    Ive been drawing little sketches to understand where everything is and will be, and what kind of wiring and where they go and all that. This is helping alot. My goal is to jot down in concrete, my plan, while eliminating things i dont need.

    >>>>>>It's pretty easy to do, really. Just power down the amp. Each amp has a turn on lead. Ideally you should run the HU turn-on lead to a relay and use the relay to power up all the amps. Just splice in another relay to your kill switch for the sub amps. You don't necessarily want a relay in the signal path (wires going to subs themselves) because you will probably cook it with too much current. Just power down the amp and you are good to go. Another option is to just turn down the sub output on the HU when you don't want the subs going.

    -- okedoke. one thing at a time.. im very new with amplifier features, and i have no perspective.
    The turn on lead is ON the amp? one of those little Dial things? and it can be wired elsewhere?
    Whats the HU turn on lead?
    the relay we are talking about would be.. some kind of aftermarket dial or knob? can it be wired to the kill switch, and would function the same way? so i can put in another relay in the same way the amplifier comes with it built in, between the amps and subs, FOR the subs correct? Then id have 4 switches. But could i, like you said, just do the relay to dash kill switch idea for the amplifiers only, and the subs would be ok in the powerdown?

    I dont want to just turn down the sub output, i want to have essentially two systems available in my car. the incabin system, and the subs in the trunk. both linked, but a kill system to the bassengine in the trunk. so i dont want any power going to the amps in the trunk when the subs arent pushing air.
    When i turn them off, i can turn the volume down in the car and lower the bass via EQ (im sure..) when i got family or gramps in the car or something.
    so amps to the incabins will still be on, and wont have kill switches. also the amp for the 6x9s in the rear will always be on.
    Two systems, that can combine with the flick of two (or four) switches.

    Thats doable right?

    PS: THANKS! this info is priceless. i feel like im expecting an invoice.




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    You have alot of questions. hehe Honestly, I could type out a long example of how I would handle your situation too, but that will only go so far. Judging from your inexperience (no offense we were all there once right? ) but determination to build a quality system, Id advise you just stick around here ( and some other car audio sites) for a while, read the threads, build up your knowledge base a bit on brands and setups. Before long you will be answering your own questions yourself, and imo that's the best bet for success.




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic
    You have alot of questions. hehe Honestly, I could type out a long example of how I would handle your situation too, but that will only go so far. Judging from your inexperience (no offense we were all there once right? ) but determination to build a quality system, Id advise you just stick around here ( and some other car audio sites) for a while, read the threads, build up your knowledge base a bit on brands and setups. Before long you will be answering your own questions yourself, and imo that's the best bet for success.
    this is VERY VERY TRUE. seems to me ur worried WAY TOO MUCH on stupid brand names, and looks and **** instead of performance. I mean, stick around, learn ****, and you could build a system as good for a fraction of the price. peace

    NG




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Yes i have alot of questions. but they are direct and pretty much specific. Im pretty much done getting the answers i need and i have already answered questions for myself. My knowledge base is much larger than it was, and im in many forums with very helpful people like HeloTaxi here who id happily send $20 to if he would let me. Im not a moocher, but if i ask, and someone answers, im grateful.
    What you think would be nice is not what i care about.
    Its always the customer right? regardless of what the salesperson thinks.. its up to the consumer.
    All i need is feedback to provide perspective, not other setups.




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Thanks alot ngsm13. I think.
    Im very concerned with performance.
    dont you worry about what im worrying about.
    I came here to learn and get answers, you get em by asking questions, right?
    By the time im done sitting around doing nothing but reading other peoples threads, product lines will shift, and i might not be able to get what im looking for now. Later models does not always mean better equipment out there, so i want to hammer it all out now and make my purchases ASAP.
    By reading other threads i didnt find the answers i was looking for because they were not specific to my car and system. If your going to post here, post something helpful, please. HeloTaxi is a good example of this.. and he has all my attention, respect, and gratitude.
    I dont need a moderator on this thread.
    Dont mean to be rude or offensive,
    but I dont need an unnecessary one paragraph generic advice line.
    I dont care about the price of my system. Im not thrifty.
    but moderation applies.




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    ngsm13's Avatar
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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    yeah...hit me up sometime on AIM...it would be MUCH more helpful if i answered some of you questions on there than in a post here. I mean...i have time to check my message here real quick but don't have time to completely answer all of your questions here. I would be MORE than willing to help you and have helped TONS of people. Obviously u have money...which is great for you...so go ahead and spend it on something some people consider to be the best. I mean as far as SQ goes...you'll be building a great system...IF u were going for straight SPL i would severely try to convince you other wise. BUT...listen to helotaxi...what he's suggested is great so far.

    1. HO alternator www.excessiveamperage.com is A MUST. Nate build great custom alternators for a good price.
    2. I would go with a good 4 inch or 5.25" component set up front...also add either a 6" or 8" dedicated midbass up front. Power the components and midbass with a 4 channel amp with the needed power. Also, IF u actually want rear fill (which IS NOT needed b/c it pulls ur soundstage to the rear...making ur SQ diminish) But i would say go with a nice set of 5.25" or 6.5" coaxials AT THE MOST. Power them by a separate small amp...50 watts or so at most. This will just fill in sound at the back...not too much or it'll ruin ur overall sound stage.
    3. As far as subs, if u got the money...go with 2 12 w7's and a 1000/1 on each. Drop them in a custom ported box w/ about 4 cubes total ported at 28hz and u'll have wangin loud SQ.
    4.Wiring: www.weldingsupply.com for 1/0 welding cable for $.99 a foot.
    5. Knukonceptz.com for battery terminals
    Ur amp rack idea sounds great...BTW what is all this going in to?? good luck...hit me up on AIM on ngbd13 for any other further explanation...i usually leave it on and will get back with messages asap. peace

    NG




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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    I am on aim. dont see you on it tho.




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    helotaxi is offline Kilroy was Here



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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberJon
    Doors and kickpanels. The difference is? door on one side kickpanel on the other?
    The Kickpanel is the area immediately in front of the front door next to the front footwell.
    Okay. thats one amp channel per component, one for each driver (2) and tweeter (2) thing is, are crossovers involved? or do you use those if i were to use a 2ch amplifier?
    A component set comes with a custom passive crossover specially tuned for the drivers it is included with. It takes care of division of the frequencies between those two drivers allowing both the mid and tweet to be driven off the same channel.
    oh ohhh.. battery terminals. you said i need a 1-3 triple for the positive? dont they both have to get grounded? or can i just leave that to my installer and look over it later? Arent there special batteries with extra tall battery posts that i can just toss two positive terminals on? or something like that? I could search around for a 1-3 1/0 positive terminal. think they exist? If a 1-2 is out there im pretty sure a 1-3 would.
    I'm pretty sure that they don't make a battery terminal with 3 1/0 outputs, God knows I looked for one for my system. Let me make a suggestion for you to mull over that will decomplicate a lot of things and save you a lot of money. Have you considered running a single 1000/1 and 2 12W6v2 subs? The sound quality difference between the W7 and W6v2 series subs are negligible until you get to really obscene output levels where the extra excursion capability of the W7 starts to come into play. If you are still sitting in the car at this point you are deaf. A single 1000/1 will power the pair of those perfectly. It will also save the need to run a second large cable to the back of the car. It will also simplify the battery terminal problem. You will only need two 1/0 outputs and the wire to go to the car's distribution system.
    Do i need a fuseblock unit for anything in the trunk? its probably not necessary, but say i wanted it there just for show, it wont bottleneck power flow will it? If it is necessary, would i just use a 4 out box and seperate the lines again as necessary?
    You will need a fuse on every wire going from the battery to the trunk to protect the car in case that wire gets pinched and shorts out. You also want a fuse to protect each power cable going to each amp. The distro blocks that I gave you the part numbers for have fusing for each ouput built into them.
    Logic dictates that keeping the resistance low is good... and all the things im thinking of adding would kind of all add up in the resistance arena right? keep the lengths of cable the shortest, and the amount of bumps in the road to to a minimum?
    Short cables are good. One fuse won't hurt your current flow until it becomes excessive and then it is the fuse doing its job.
    -- okedoke. one thing at a time.. im very new with amplifier features, and i have no perspective.
    The turn on lead is ON the amp? one of those little Dial things? and it can be wired elsewhere?
    Whats the HU turn on lead?
    The amp turn on lead is a terminal on the side of the amp (generally right next to the power connector) that turns the amp on when 12V is applied to it. The lead off the HU provides the 12V to turn on the amp.
    the relay we are talking about would be.. some kind of aftermarket dial or knob? can it be wired to the kill switch, and would function the same way? so i can put in another relay in the same way the amplifier comes with it built in, between the amps and subs, FOR the subs correct? Then id have 4 switches. But could i, like you said, just do the relay to dash kill switch idea for the amplifiers only, and the subs would be ok in the powerdown?
    A relay is a remote switch that uses a low current electrical input (in this case the 12V turn on signal from the HU and the wiring from your kill switch) to switch a higher current source. Typically you will use a relay on the HU turn on lead when switching on multiple amplifiers to keep from drawing too much current from the HU lead.
    Thats doable right?
    Piece of cake. If your install guy can't figure it out, find a new install guy.

    PS: THANKS! this info is priceless. i feel like im expecting an invoice.
    I'm in the military. Helping people for money is currently not my bag.

    Quick rundown of what I would suggest for you:

    Head unit: Find one you like.
    Front stage: Find a 4" or 5.25" component set that you like the sound of. Try to listen to them in a car if you can. Mount them in a custom kickpanel enclosures. Look in the enclosure and fiberglass forum on this board. Gauntlet did a nice tutorial on hoe to build them that will giv you an idea of what they look like.
    Midbass drivers: 6.5" midbasses will drop right in to your car. Find a true midbass, not just a large midrange.
    Rear fill: If you keep the 6x9's you will need some type of enclosure for them to keep the pressure from the subs from massacring them.
    Subs: I would give the 12W6v2's a look and listen. Enclosure type is purely subjective.
    Amps: 1000/1 for the subs. You have the money, I would stick with JL amps for the rest of the system for aestetic reasons. A 300/4 for the front stage and rear fill (if you keep it) and a 300/2 for the midbasses. If you ditch the rear fill the 300/4 can run the whole front stage or you can go with 2 300/2's.
    Wiring: Find stuff you like the looks of that will do what you need it to do. Welding wire works just fine. Knukonceptz for your terminals and Stinger, Lightning Audio, Phoenix Gold, or Streetwires for your fuse blocks.

    Any other questions, I'm more than happy to answer.



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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Well. If i knew as much as you, id help people the same way. I help em in other areas tho. I can get maybe a 250amp alternator. Could i wire two batteries to my car to help with the other 1/0 cable i need? or can i just put two double-1/0 terminals on my battery post?
    Didnt you say you needed 3 1/0s for your system?
    howd ya do dat?

    Anyways, Lightning Audio makes a terminal that has one 1/0 and two 4ga. that wont work will it?
    If i cant get 3 1/0 wires to my trunk.. how the hell do people with hondas get 6 amplifiers back there? 4ga wire?
    Im definately not going to go with the 12W6v2s, just because im stubborn, and i like the high output levels of the W7.

    So im stuck then.. how wierd. especially since i eliminated a few amps.. anyways. im guessing, all equipment included.. the wiring and distroblocks, fuses, and all those goodies, is gunna cost me about $200-$300. with installation tho. If less then greeat.

    A bud from another forum suggested another piece for my system.
    "An Audiocontrol 1/3 octave EQ to make up for environment."

    Is that a good idea? wont hurt? ill wire it up, as long as i have room to mount it.
    Also, capacitors. Everyone tells me theyre worthless. But i have arguments from both sides and then some. Im convinced that while it might not do alot, a pair of 2 farad caps for my system should help out at extreme levels. yea?
    or is my guess totally off. Even if its useless, or helps just a little bit, id rather just throw it in there and round out the system know what i mean? dont care if it costs me.

    I'll might go with a kaption or JL component set.




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    helotaxi is offline Kilroy was Here



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    Re: Need a lil help all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberJon
    Well. If i knew as much as you, id help people the same way. I help em in other areas tho. I can get maybe a 250amp alternator. Could i wire two batteries to my car to help with the other 1/0 cable i need? or can i just put two double-1/0 terminals on my battery post?
    Big alternator is good. Adding an extra battery won't get you another output from the battery terminals because you will end up using one output off of each battery to wire the batteries together. If you plan on running the system with the engine off adding another battery might be a good idea.
    Didnt you say you needed 3 1/0s for your system?
    howd ya do dat?
    Actually I wanted a pair of 1/0 and a 4 or 8ga, just like the KnuKonceptz terminals can have, but they didn't fit in with the rest of my terminals. I have 2 1/0 from my Stinger Expert terminals and with a bit of, shall we say, "creative" wiring, I have what I need.

    Anyways, Lightning Audio makes a terminal that has one 1/0 and two 4ga. that wont work will it?
    If i cant get 3 1/0 wires to my trunk.. how the hell do people with hondas get 6 amplifiers back there? 4ga wire?
    You only need 2 1/0 to the trunk, but you need another to run to the alternator to charge the battery(s) and actually power the system with the car on. When you start running stupid numbers of amps, you start running stupid sized wire. The SPL guys have been known to run multiple runs of 4/0 from the alternators to the array of batteries they use. You will not need that. The Knukonceptz bettery terminal has one 1/0 spot on it and provision for a ring terminal. You should be able to put two rings on that spot without any trouble and give you the 3 big outputs you need.
    Im definately not going to go with the 12W6v2s, just because im stubborn, and i like the high output levels of the W7.
    You likely would never reach the capabilities of the W7's but its your system.
    So im stuck then
    Never!
    the wiring and distroblocks, fuses, and all those goodies, is gunna cost me about $200-$300. with installation tho. If less then greeat.
    That's probably a min for just the wiring, fusing and distribution. Don't forget, you still have to worry about the signal side of the house; RCA cables, speaker wire, speaker terminals, etc... Install for a system of the magnitude you are talking will run a pretty healthy chunk of coin. If you can do most of it yourself, you will save that money. We are all here willing to help.
    A bud from another forum suggested another piece for my system.
    "An Audiocontrol 1/3 octave EQ to make up for environment."
    That will not work with your system. I am selling mine in fact. The model he is suggesting is two channel model. You will have at least 6 channels running from your head unit to the trunk. Most of the new HUs have a parametric 5 band EQ built into them which can correct just as much as a 31 band can. The beauty of a parametric of a 1/3 oct unit is you can adjust the center frequency of the band as well as the range of frequencies that it will affect. Most cars only have 3 maybe 4 areas in their reponse curve where an EQ can have an effect. Most response anomalies are the result of relative speaker phasing and there is nothing an EQ can do to fix those problems. The placement and aiming of your speakers will play much more of a part in the final sound of your system than an EQ ever could. Also, to even think of getting your money out of the 1/3 oct EQ you will be spending days sitting in the car listening to test tones and looking at an RTA tuning the EQ and the result probably won't sound good with music. Save your time, money and effort.
    capacitors. Everyone tells me theyre worthless. But i have arguments from both sides and then some. Im convinced that while it might not do alot, a pair of 2 farad caps for my system should help out at extreme levels
    Any possible benefit would be totally inaudible. Stick with a beefy alternator and probably a second battery and you will be set.
    or is my guess totally off. Even if its useless, or helps just a little bit, id rather just throw it in there and round out the system know what i mean? dont care if it costs me
    Spend the money on something your will hear. A great component set is money well spent. That extra bit on the install is money well spent. Caps are not money well spent.
    I'll might go with a kaption or JL component set.
    I've never heard the kaption speakers. I used to run the first series of JL components about 8 years ago. I don't have anything but praise for those, but I have not heard the newer series. You have the money, give MB quart, a/d/s, Boston Acoustics, CDT, Rainbow, Focal, and Dynaudio a listen. Especially compared to the Pioneers you are listening to now, the middle to higher end components from any of the above should flat blow you away.



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