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  1. #31
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by audio_phill View Post
    If magnets had the same charge, Q shifts should be minimal, and I'd like to point out that the LMT from the RL-s line has a tc9 top-plate and a qts over 1.00 lol. My Old school TC3LM 4K's have the exact same Q as my tc9 lms drivers


    Gen 1 post-break in
    Re = 2.8222 ohms
    Fs = 22.8900 Hz
    Zmax = 27.3518 ohms
    Qes = 0.6362
    Qms = 5.5296
    Qts = 0.5706
    Le = 0.8308 mH (at 1 kHz)
    Diam = 208.2800 mm ( 8.2000 in )
    Sd =34071.0096 mm^2( 52.8102 in^2)
    Vas = 47.2054 L ( 1.6670 ft^3)
    BL = 10.3802 N/A
    Mms = 168.8843 g
    Cms = 286.2579 uM/N
    Kms = 3493.3530 N/M
    Rms = 4.3926 R mechanical
    Efficiency = 0.0836 %
    Sensitivity= 81.2408 dB @1W/1m

    gen 2 pre-break in
    Re = 2.9618 ohms
    Fs = 26.6445 Hz
    Zmax = 25.0854 ohms
    Qes = 0.7603
    Qms = 5.6789
    Qts = 0.6705
    Le = 1.0287 mH (at 1 kHz)
    Diam = 209.5500 mm ( 8.2500 in )
    Sd =34487.7765 mm^2( 53.4562 in^2)
    Vas = 25.9976 L ( 0.9181 ft^3)
    BL = 12.2980 N/A
    Mms = 231.8929 g
    Cms = 153.8644 uM/N
    Kms = 6499.2305 N/M
    Rms = 6.8362 R mechanical
    Efficiency = 0.0608 %
    Sensitivity= 79.8554 dB @1W/1m
    The reason I chose to compare the SW8000 and the LMS4000 is the coil, it's exactly the same between the two. The same can't be said for the LM10D2. Coil and soft parts are the same on the 10" SW8000 and the 10" LMS4000, only difference is the motor. Gaps and top plates are the same between the two motors, the SW is a TC9 and the LMS is a 3LM. Q is much higher on the SW8000.

    The LM10D2 uses a TC9 but it has more coil density as the Mms will show when compared the the LMS4000. Compliance on the LM10D2 shows this as well, it's stiffer to counteract the added mass. It's also got a higher BL product, again more coil. Can't really compare the two in that regard. Different beasts. More like the new offerings than it is the LMS4000.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.




  2. #32
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    The reason I chose to compare the SW8000 and the LMS4000 is the coil, it's exactly the same between the two. The same can't be said for the LM10D2. Coil and soft parts are the same on the 10" SW8000 and the 10" LMS4000, only difference is the motor. Gaps and top plates are the same between the two motors, the SW is a TC9 and the LMS is a 3LM. Q is much higher on the SW8000.

    The LM10D2 uses a TC9 but it has more coil density as the Mms will show when compared the the LMS4000. Compliance on the LM10D2 shows this as well, it's stiffer to counteract the added mass. It's also got a higher BL product, again more coil. Can't really compare the two in that regard. Different beasts. More like the new offerings than it is the LMS4000.
    Glad you brought up the sw8K, heres tsp's from mine pre-break in

    Re = 3.1166 ohms
    Fs = 27.5399 Hz
    Zmax = 26.1917 ohms
    Qes = 0.8713
    Qms = 6.4508
    Qts = 0.7676
    Le = 1.1552 mH (at 1 kHz)
    Diam = 206.3750 mm ( 8.1250 in )
    Sd =33450.6109 mm^2( 51.8486 in^2)
    Vas = 28.5486 L ( 1.0082 ft^3)
    BL = 10.7285 N/A
    Mms = 185.9532 g
    Cms = 179.6025 uM/N
    Kms = 5567.8506 N/M
    Rms = 4.9881 R mechanical
    Efficiency = 0.0643 %
    Sensitivity= 80.1007 dB @1W/1m



    Bought From: Funky Waves, Realbeach, Farmacist Louisiana_CRX, Lingerfelt, ciaonzo, SPY (X2), tristanmay, bigbassjoel, Sound_Around, tristanmay

    Sold To: alfabit1, Sound_Around, jonalford2087, woodels420, pangullo, chico305, ciaonzo, darkkon, faessle, UNDERGROUND_BUM, JCJR, adrian1185, fast306stang, tristanmay, biggen_bd, mwerling1212, ntfish, nate56

    Traded With: HiloDB1, ciaonzo, tristanmay, Jh8909, fritosaregood, eCrack.net

  3. #33
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    If the lms4K gen 2 wasnt in my scion I'd get pics of the top's beside one another and some micrometer measures of WW, Coil ID/OD and Gap's. I'll try to get them from my 3LM and SW8K and LM10d2 asap.



    Bought From: Funky Waves, Realbeach, Farmacist Louisiana_CRX, Lingerfelt, ciaonzo, SPY (X2), tristanmay, bigbassjoel, Sound_Around, tristanmay

    Sold To: alfabit1, Sound_Around, jonalford2087, woodels420, pangullo, chico305, ciaonzo, darkkon, faessle, UNDERGROUND_BUM, JCJR, adrian1185, fast306stang, tristanmay, biggen_bd, mwerling1212, ntfish, nate56

    Traded With: HiloDB1, ciaonzo, tristanmay, Jh8909, fritosaregood, eCrack.net

  4. #34
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by audio_phill View Post
    Glad you brought up the sw8K, heres tsp's from mine pre-break in

    Re = 3.1166 ohms
    Fs = 27.5399 Hz
    Zmax = 26.1917 ohms
    Qes = 0.8713
    Qms = 6.4508
    Qts = 0.7676
    Le = 1.1552 mH (at 1 kHz)
    Diam = 206.3750 mm ( 8.1250 in )
    Sd =33450.6109 mm^2( 51.8486 in^2)
    Vas = 28.5486 L ( 1.0082 ft^3)
    BL = 10.7285 N/A
    Mms = 185.9532 g
    Cms = 179.6025 uM/N
    Kms = 5567.8506 N/M
    Rms = 4.9881 R mechanical
    Efficiency = 0.0643 %
    Sensitivity= 80.1007 dB @1W/1m
    glad you posted this...i will be using this sub for my set up soon



    If you ever dealt with me in the past...please post how our transation went here...-->http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5274098<--...i greatly appreciate your support

  5. #35
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk1 View Post
    glad you posted this...i will be using this sub for my set up soon
    2.2 sealed is awfully nice when fully stuffed and near golden ratio!!! lol.



    Bought From: Funky Waves, Realbeach, Farmacist Louisiana_CRX, Lingerfelt, ciaonzo, SPY (X2), tristanmay, bigbassjoel, Sound_Around, tristanmay

    Sold To: alfabit1, Sound_Around, jonalford2087, woodels420, pangullo, chico305, ciaonzo, darkkon, faessle, UNDERGROUND_BUM, JCJR, adrian1185, fast306stang, tristanmay, biggen_bd, mwerling1212, ntfish, nate56

    Traded With: HiloDB1, ciaonzo, tristanmay, Jh8909, fritosaregood, eCrack.net

  6. #36
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by audio_phill View Post
    2.2 sealed is awfully nice when fully stuffed and near golden ratio!!! lol.
    fully stuffed?? 2.2?? darn i was gonna use .7 lol

    the original manual thing on the box said 1.0 max sealed.



    If you ever dealt with me in the past...please post how our transation went here...-->http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5274098<--...i greatly appreciate your support

  7. #37
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk1 View Post
    fully stuffed?? 2.2?? darn i was gonna use .7 lol

    the original manual thing on the box said 1.0 max sealed.
    Manuals??? people use those fraudulent listings still lol.



    Bought From: Funky Waves, Realbeach, Farmacist Louisiana_CRX, Lingerfelt, ciaonzo, SPY (X2), tristanmay, bigbassjoel, Sound_Around, tristanmay

    Sold To: alfabit1, Sound_Around, jonalford2087, woodels420, pangullo, chico305, ciaonzo, darkkon, faessle, UNDERGROUND_BUM, JCJR, adrian1185, fast306stang, tristanmay, biggen_bd, mwerling1212, ntfish, nate56

    Traded With: HiloDB1, ciaonzo, tristanmay, Jh8909, fritosaregood, eCrack.net

  8. #38
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    lol it was on sonixelectronics.. and yes i believe it cuz i dont wanna break anything..what do you mean fully stuffed?



    If you ever dealt with me in the past...please post how our transation went here...-->http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5274098<--...i greatly appreciate your support

  9. #39
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk1 View Post
    lol it was on sonixelectronics.. and yes i believe it cuz i dont wanna break anything..what do you mean fully stuffed?
    3/4-1lb acoustuff or polyfill per cube.



    Bought From: Funky Waves, Realbeach, Farmacist Louisiana_CRX, Lingerfelt, ciaonzo, SPY (X2), tristanmay, bigbassjoel, Sound_Around, tristanmay

    Sold To: alfabit1, Sound_Around, jonalford2087, woodels420, pangullo, chico305, ciaonzo, darkkon, faessle, UNDERGROUND_BUM, JCJR, adrian1185, fast306stang, tristanmay, biggen_bd, mwerling1212, ntfish, nate56

    Traded With: HiloDB1, ciaonzo, tristanmay, Jh8909, fritosaregood, eCrack.net

  10. #40
    ciaonzo's Avatar
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by audio_phill View Post
    Glad you brought up the sw8K, heres tsp's from mine pre-break in

    Re = 3.1166 ohms
    Fs = 27.5399 Hz
    Zmax = 26.1917 ohms
    Qes = 0.8713
    Qms = 6.4508
    Qts = 0.7676
    Le = 1.1552 mH (at 1 kHz)
    Diam = 206.3750 mm ( 8.1250 in )
    Sd =33450.6109 mm^2( 51.8486 in^2)
    Vas = 28.5486 L ( 1.0082 ft^3)
    BL = 10.7285 N/A
    Mms = 185.9532 g
    Cms = 179.6025 uM/N
    Kms = 5567.8506 N/M
    Rms = 4.9881 R mechanical
    Efficiency = 0.0643 %
    Sensitivity= 80.1007 dB @1W/1m
    That's the Qes I was expecting to see with a TC9. A bit different than the .6362 on the LMS4000 with the 3LM. I know you could take a TC9 and a 3LM and give them the same amount of charge, I realize that. But I do believe the whole point of the extra slugs in the 3LM was to add B so as to bring Q down, though, and not to allow for more stroke. You can get the full 3.5" stroke from a TC9 with 1" slugs, I've demonstrated that over and over. Anyway, not huge deal. They all sound phenomenal when implemented correctly. They love their airspace, lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  11. #41
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    oh lol that stuff!!! lol...gahh youre making me spend a lot of money lol! you do know this is going in a car right!?



    If you ever dealt with me in the past...please post how our transation went here...-->http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5274098<--...i greatly appreciate your support

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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk1 View Post
    oh lol that stuff!!! lol...gahh youre making me spend a lot of money lol! you do know this is going in a car right!?
    You can get a bag of 16 ounces at Walmart for $2.97+ tax.



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  13. #43
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedragon551 View Post
    You can get a bag of 16 ounces at Walmart for $2.97+ tax.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk1 View Post
    lol it was on sonixelectronics.. and yes i believe it cuz i dont wanna break anything..what do you mean fully stuffed?
    Phill has this pretty much down to a science considering he pulls actual tsps and graphs them.
    I'd definitely wouldn't trust what sonicelectronics "suggests" but that's just me lol.

    It's all up to you but i'd atleast give it a try and see how it turns out.. if you don't like the performance than switch things up.



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  14. #44
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaonzo View Post
    That's the Qes I was expecting to see with a TC9. A bit different than the .6362 on the LMS4000 with the 3LM. I know you could take a TC9 and a 3LM and give them the same amount of charge, I realize that. But I do believe the whole point of the extra slugs in the 3LM was to add B so as to bring Q down, though, and not to allow for more stroke. You can get the full 3.5" stroke from a TC9 with 1" slugs, I've demonstrated that over and over. Anyway, not huge deal. They all sound phenomenal when implemented correctly. They love their airspace, lol.
    In case anyone is doubting this... Both use the TC9.







    Quote Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
    Saying "clipping doesn't kill speakers" is a half-truth at best. Technically no, clipping itself does not hurt the speaker. But in clipping your amp, you can easily create a situation that WILL kill the speaker. Was the squared waveform the DIRECT cause of the failure? No. In the end, the answer is, always has been, and can only be... heat kills speakers. BUT, clipping increases heat generation, sometimes by a drastic amount. So to start a thread simply to state that clipping does not hurt speakers is, again, a half-truth at best.

  15. #45
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    Re: TC Sounds Motor's

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedragon551 View Post
    You can get a bag of 16 ounces at Walmart for $2.97+ tax.
    cool! whats it called at walmart?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickatina View Post
    This.



    Phill has this pretty much down to a science considering he pulls actual tsps and graphs them.
    I'd definitely wouldn't trust what sonicelectronics "suggests" but that's just me lol.

    It's all up to you but i'd atleast give it a try and see how it turns out.. if you don't like the performance than switch things up.
    yeah im sure ill go with what he says



    If you ever dealt with me in the past...please post how our transation went here...-->http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5274098<--...i greatly appreciate your support

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