1. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by audio_phill
If magnets had the same charge, Q shifts should be minimal, and I'd like to point out that the LMT from the RL-s line has a tc9 top-plate and a qts over 1.00 lol. My Old school TC3LM 4K's have the exact same Q as my tc9 lms drivers

Gen 1 post-break in
Re = 2.8222 ohms
Fs = 22.8900 Hz
Zmax = 27.3518 ohms
Qes = 0.6362
Qms = 5.5296
Qts = 0.5706
Le = 0.8308 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.2800 mm ( 8.2000 in )
Sd =34071.0096 mm^2( 52.8102 in^2)
Vas = 47.2054 L ( 1.6670 ft^3)
BL = 10.3802 N/A
Mms = 168.8843 g
Cms = 286.2579 uM/N
Kms = 3493.3530 N/M
Rms = 4.3926 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0836 %
Sensitivity= 81.2408 dB @1W/1m

gen 2 pre-break in
Re = 2.9618 ohms
Fs = 26.6445 Hz
Zmax = 25.0854 ohms
Qes = 0.7603
Qms = 5.6789
Qts = 0.6705
Le = 1.0287 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 209.5500 mm ( 8.2500 in )
Sd =34487.7765 mm^2( 53.4562 in^2)
Vas = 25.9976 L ( 0.9181 ft^3)
BL = 12.2980 N/A
Mms = 231.8929 g
Cms = 153.8644 uM/N
Kms = 6499.2305 N/M
Rms = 6.8362 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0608 %
Sensitivity= 79.8554 dB @1W/1m
The reason I chose to compare the SW8000 and the LMS4000 is the coil, it's exactly the same between the two. The same can't be said for the LM10D2. Coil and soft parts are the same on the 10" SW8000 and the 10" LMS4000, only difference is the motor. Gaps and top plates are the same between the two motors, the SW is a TC9 and the LMS is a 3LM. Q is much higher on the SW8000.

The LM10D2 uses a TC9 but it has more coil density as the Mms will show when compared the the LMS4000. Compliance on the LM10D2 shows this as well, it's stiffer to counteract the added mass. It's also got a higher BL product, again more coil. Can't really compare the two in that regard. Different beasts. More like the new offerings than it is the LMS4000.

2. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by ciaonzo
The reason I chose to compare the SW8000 and the LMS4000 is the coil, it's exactly the same between the two. The same can't be said for the LM10D2. Coil and soft parts are the same on the 10" SW8000 and the 10" LMS4000, only difference is the motor. Gaps and top plates are the same between the two motors, the SW is a TC9 and the LMS is a 3LM. Q is much higher on the SW8000.

The LM10D2 uses a TC9 but it has more coil density as the Mms will show when compared the the LMS4000. Compliance on the LM10D2 shows this as well, it's stiffer to counteract the added mass. It's also got a higher BL product, again more coil. Can't really compare the two in that regard. Different beasts. More like the new offerings than it is the LMS4000.
Glad you brought up the sw8K, heres tsp's from mine pre-break in

Re = 3.1166 ohms
Fs = 27.5399 Hz
Zmax = 26.1917 ohms
Qes = 0.8713
Qms = 6.4508
Qts = 0.7676
Le = 1.1552 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 206.3750 mm ( 8.1250 in )
Sd =33450.6109 mm^2( 51.8486 in^2)
Vas = 28.5486 L ( 1.0082 ft^3)
BL = 10.7285 N/A
Mms = 185.9532 g
Cms = 179.6025 uM/N
Kms = 5567.8506 N/M
Rms = 4.9881 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0643 %
Sensitivity= 80.1007 dB @1W/1m

3. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

If the lms4K gen 2 wasnt in my scion I'd get pics of the top's beside one another and some micrometer measures of WW, Coil ID/OD and Gap's. I'll try to get them from my 3LM and SW8K and LM10d2 asap.

4. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by audio_phill
Glad you brought up the sw8K, heres tsp's from mine pre-break in

Re = 3.1166 ohms
Fs = 27.5399 Hz
Zmax = 26.1917 ohms
Qes = 0.8713
Qms = 6.4508
Qts = 0.7676
Le = 1.1552 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 206.3750 mm ( 8.1250 in )
Sd =33450.6109 mm^2( 51.8486 in^2)
Vas = 28.5486 L ( 1.0082 ft^3)
BL = 10.7285 N/A
Mms = 185.9532 g
Cms = 179.6025 uM/N
Kms = 5567.8506 N/M
Rms = 4.9881 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0643 %
Sensitivity= 80.1007 dB @1W/1m
glad you posted this...i will be using this sub for my set up soon

5. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by hrtbrk1
glad you posted this...i will be using this sub for my set up soon
2.2 sealed is awfully nice when fully stuffed and near golden ratio!!! lol.

6. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by audio_phill
2.2 sealed is awfully nice when fully stuffed and near golden ratio!!! lol.
fully stuffed?? 2.2?? darn i was gonna use .7 lol

the original manual thing on the box said 1.0 max sealed.

7. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by hrtbrk1
fully stuffed?? 2.2?? darn i was gonna use .7 lol

the original manual thing on the box said 1.0 max sealed.
Manuals??? people use those fraudulent listings still lol.

8. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

lol it was on sonixelectronics.. and yes i believe it cuz i dont wanna break anything..what do you mean fully stuffed?

9. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by hrtbrk1
lol it was on sonixelectronics.. and yes i believe it cuz i dont wanna break anything..what do you mean fully stuffed?
3/4-1lb acoustuff or polyfill per cube.

10. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by audio_phill
Glad you brought up the sw8K, heres tsp's from mine pre-break in

Re = 3.1166 ohms
Fs = 27.5399 Hz
Zmax = 26.1917 ohms
Qes = 0.8713
Qms = 6.4508
Qts = 0.7676
Le = 1.1552 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 206.3750 mm ( 8.1250 in )
Sd =33450.6109 mm^2( 51.8486 in^2)
Vas = 28.5486 L ( 1.0082 ft^3)
BL = 10.7285 N/A
Mms = 185.9532 g
Cms = 179.6025 uM/N
Kms = 5567.8506 N/M
Rms = 4.9881 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0643 %
Sensitivity= 80.1007 dB @1W/1m
That's the Qes I was expecting to see with a TC9. A bit different than the .6362 on the LMS4000 with the 3LM. I know you could take a TC9 and a 3LM and give them the same amount of charge, I realize that. But I do believe the whole point of the extra slugs in the 3LM was to add B so as to bring Q down, though, and not to allow for more stroke. You can get the full 3.5" stroke from a TC9 with 1" slugs, I've demonstrated that over and over. Anyway, not huge deal. They all sound phenomenal when implemented correctly. They love their airspace, lol.

11. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

oh lol that stuff!!! lol...gahh youre making me spend a lot of money lol! you do know this is going in a car right!?

12. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by hrtbrk1
oh lol that stuff!!! lol...gahh youre making me spend a lot of money lol! you do know this is going in a car right!?
You can get a bag of 16 ounces at Walmart for \$2.97+ tax.

13. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by whitedragon551
You can get a bag of 16 ounces at Walmart for \$2.97+ tax.
This.

Originally Posted by hrtbrk1
lol it was on sonixelectronics.. and yes i believe it cuz i dont wanna break anything..what do you mean fully stuffed?
Phill has this pretty much down to a science considering he pulls actual tsps and graphs them.
I'd definitely wouldn't trust what sonicelectronics "suggests" but that's just me lol.

It's all up to you but i'd atleast give it a try and see how it turns out.. if you don't like the performance than switch things up.

14. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by ciaonzo
That's the Qes I was expecting to see with a TC9. A bit different than the .6362 on the LMS4000 with the 3LM. I know you could take a TC9 and a 3LM and give them the same amount of charge, I realize that. But I do believe the whole point of the extra slugs in the 3LM was to add B so as to bring Q down, though, and not to allow for more stroke. You can get the full 3.5" stroke from a TC9 with 1" slugs, I've demonstrated that over and over. Anyway, not huge deal. They all sound phenomenal when implemented correctly. They love their airspace, lol.
In case anyone is doubting this... Both use the TC9.

15. Re: TC Sounds Motor's

Originally Posted by whitedragon551
You can get a bag of 16 ounces at Walmart for \$2.97+ tax.
cool! whats it called at walmart?
Originally Posted by Nickatina
This.

Phill has this pretty much down to a science considering he pulls actual tsps and graphs them.
I'd definitely wouldn't trust what sonicelectronics "suggests" but that's just me lol.

It's all up to you but i'd atleast give it a try and see how it turns out.. if you don't like the performance than switch things up.
yeah im sure ill go with what he says

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