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    Icon32 How do you judge am amp, by specs. or how it sounds

    I have a unanswerable question I think, but lets hear your thoughts.

    We have a disagreeance in how to qualify am amp.

    I think it is wort a discussion, so here is a segment from another thread;

    sorry for the layout, I don't know how else to do it.
    This is part of a conversation in another thread.

    Re: Where to buy RAINBOW AMPS?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1)

    There are 4 and only 4 specs that determine how an amp will sound below clipping.
    1)Distortion: If you can't hear it its low enough. If the distortion measurements are the BAL there is no difference from this spec.
    2)S/N: If it's inaudible then nothing here as well.
    3)Frequency response: If an amp sounds "warm" it has an issue in this spec. An amp should not "sound" anything. It's job is to increase the voltage and current of a signal without altering it. If it is rolling off or has non linearities within the frequency range it is being used in, then it isn't a good amp.
    4)Power: Power makes the world go 'round. Psychoacoustics tell us that louder sounds better. Extra power also allows the system to be more dynamic. Even if you only ever use around 50w having 200 on tap is only going to help. Effortless dynamics are created by having headroom.

    If those 4 specs are inaudibly different, there is not a person alive who can distinguish the difference between two amps. For any amp worth owning (and I dont hardly limit this to "high-end" brands, I use old Orion and Phoenix Gold, hardly "high-end") the only spec that needs to be considered is #4 where more or the money is better. Beyond that you're paying for intangibles: reputation, the boost to your ego, reliability (which is almost a wash with solid state electronics above budget grade anyway), and customer service (which with reliable electronics isn't often needed). Spend you money however you want, but if you think spending a ton on amps is going to give you verifiably better sound, think again.



    2)
    Don't we all know that specs can not tell us the true story of how one amp will preform vs. another.

    3)
    Wrong.
    What mystical powers or abilities do you think an amplifier possesses which can't be measured and aren't captured in the above stated specs ?


    4)
    The warmth, image ...
    Are all captured in the specs of frequency response and distortion.


    5)
    I do question those who have opinions here, have you had the oppertunity to listen to the rainbow amps?

    Don't need to listen, just need to know the specs.


    6)
    If not, how can it be determined that it is "not worth the upgrade,"
    By examining those difference, all of which ARE measureable, which contribute to the "sound characteristics" of an amplifier.


    7)
    Power output 65 watts RMS x 4 (4 W load),
    250 watts x 4 max output,
    500 watts x 2 max (bridged mode)
    Frequency response: 10 to 30,000 Hz
    Signal to Noise ratio: > 90 dB THD: < 0.04%

    4 Channel: 50W at 4 ohms or
    100W at 2 ohms x 4;
    3 Channel: 50W x 2 , 200W x 1


    at 4 ohms; 2 Channel: 200W x
    2 at 4 ohms
    20Hz to
    20kHz
    0.005% 10dB 20Hz to 20kHz, +0 / -0.25dB;
    10Hz t0 100kHz, +0 / -3.0dB
    0.5V to 8V 105dB (1.5V) 12.0V Idle: 2.5A Rated
    power 40A (4
    ohms)

    Well, I am assuming that by both of your definitions of what matters in an amp, one would conclude that these two amps are pretty close in the way they will make a given set of speakers sound, correct?

    THD is below what is considered audioble, rms is compareable, S/N basically a wash, and frequency Res. is to the threshold of the human ear on both.

    would you agree?


    8)
    I will state the fact that the two amps these specs are for are:
    Pyramid PB448X Super Blue 4x65W Amplifier
    and
    McIntosh MCC204
    you make the call.


    9)
    First you have to keep in mind the Pyramid is likely overrated and the McIntosh slightly underrated....so chances are good the McIntosh is capable of more power.
    But yes, assuming they are both capable of inaudibly different power output (ie limit the power output of the McIntosh), distortion is below audibility, inaudible differences in frequency response and no audible noise from either amp........they would be audibly indistinguishable.
    There is NO reason they would sound different.
    Sure, there issues such as reliability to consider that would not necessarily make the Pyramid an attractive candidate for purchase. But that does not mean they would sound different

    10)
    I respectfully disagree.
    For the sake of debate, how do you explain how nice tube amps sound?



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    Re: How do you judge am amp, by specs. or how it sounds

    Whenever possible I LISTEN to an amp I want to purchase on speakers as similar to mine as possible.

    If the amp has the rated power I need and sounds good, I have an amp I want. Price is a factor as well.



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    Re: How do you judge am amp, by specs. or how it sounds

    Squeak, I thought it might be a good topic for discussion. hell you just schooled me, 22+ years in audio and i learned somthing.



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    Re: How do you judge am amp, by specs. or how it sounds

    http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/...hreadid=123226
    http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/...hreadid=123205
    http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ked+amp+thread
    http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
    http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csfor...ight=challenge
    http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showt...threadid=18815

    There's just the first few threads that come to my mind on the topic.

    It's been beaten to death already in all honesty. No new discussions will take place here. No new ideas or conversations will evolve. Everything, every last detail, has been debated over and over.

    I linked a couple threads above (a few of the hundreds which exist), which collectively I would have to guess accumulatively total well over a thousand posts on the subject. Give yourself an afternoon and dig in.





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    Re: How do you judge am amp, by specs. or how it sounds

    Cool, I have my infant son sleeping on my chest, so I can't go ant where anyways.

    All do respect to you.



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    Re: How do you judge am amp, by specs. or how it sounds

    Glad I could help




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