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    Icon32 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Originally I planned on having a pair of Orion HP 12s, with dual 4ohm coils, paralleled down to 1ohm in a ported box. My oldschool Orion HCCA250 would give them approx. 800W. Today I came across another pair of the same subs(identical specs) in a sealed box. So here are my questions????

    1. Will (2)12s at 800W(1ohm) be louder AND create more air pressure than (4)12s at 400W(2ohms) given they both use the same cu in airspace per sub?

    2. What are your opinions on mixing a sealed & ported box in the same SUV?

    3. If I paralleled all the 12s down to 0.5 Ohms , what are your thoughts on adding (2)4ohm 8's paralleled onto the 0.5 that'd give me 1.5 ohms ? Mathematically this works but not sure it's practical?

    My goal is to increase audible volume & air moment. I'm open to any suggestions using the equipment I already have. Thanks.







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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8rfiero View Post
    Originally I planned on having a pair of Orion HP 12s, with dual 4ohm coils, paralleled down to 1ohm in a ported box. My oldschool Orion HCCA250 would give them approx. 800W. Today I came across another pair of the same subs(identical specs) in a sealed box. So here are my questions????

    1. Will (2)12s at 800W(1ohm) be louder AND create more air pressure than (4)12s at 400W(2ohms) given they both use the same cu in airspace per sub?

    2. What are your opinions on mixing a sealed & ported box in the same SUV?

    3. If I paralleled all the 12s down to 0.5 Ohms , what are your thoughts on adding (2)4ohm 8's paralleled onto the 0.5 that'd give me 1.5 ohms ? Mathematically this works but not sure it's practical?

    My goal is to increase audible volume & air moment. I'm open to any suggestions using the equipment I already have. Thanks.
    If you want to run 2 more 12's get another 250r or g4 whichever you have now, or just get one amp to power all 4 adequately and build a custom enclosure for all 4 either way... Do NOT mix different sub sizes - NOT a good idea at all. Otherwise I'd just leave it as it is... Running 4 12's on half the power @ 2 ohms seems like a waste to me IMO




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    *Bought From: cx-7heaven, nutnbutcustm, naughtyca, agarabaghi, Skip01*Traded With: infamous_e46, basswiigee**Sold To: DeanG, R.S.D., livinloud!*
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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    There is no replacement for displacement. All things equal displacement wins. No mixing this isn't a smoothie shop. You should stay in school and pay attention in math class.



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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Build a ported box for all 4 subs if you want loud and get another amp. DO NOT MIX subs. Baaaad idea.



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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    As said do not mix subs.


    Seems like you are a enough is not enough type of guy like the rest of us. I would get the other 2 subs, and upgrade you amp. if you can't afford a amp now, you could just run two of them till you get more power. Then build a proper box (for all four subs)and wang out.

    As far as two subs on higher power being more or less loud than four subs on less power, I can't answer that.



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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    yeah just build a box for the 4 12's and get a good amp... i agree with alot of these comments yet i too before have ran mixed subs and been surprised by the out come... 10's and 12's... but even though it sounded good if properly done and not mixed it would've sounded better...




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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Thank you for the responses. I look into box designs ( most people are doing subs up /port to the back right?) I know some of you mentioned getting a new amp to run all 4 12s. I understand what you mean. What size were you guys thinking? Keep in mind I'm "not sponsored by mommy & daddy".lol




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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8rfiero View Post
    Thank you for the responses. I look into box designs ( most people are doing subs up /port to the back right?) I know some of you mentioned getting a new amp to run all 4 12s. I understand what you mean. What size were you guys thinking? Keep in mind I'm "not sponsored by mommy & daddy".lol
    Find yourself a nice used Sundown SAZ-1500v3 and wire it to .5, or if you want to go the cheap rout get a Power Acoustic BAMF 5500 and wire it to 2 ohms




    - Cadence DCA2500.1 Running a Tantric HDD - 12" D2
    *Bought From: cx-7heaven, nutnbutcustm, naughtyca, agarabaghi, Skip01*Traded With: infamous_e46, basswiigee**Sold To: DeanG, R.S.D., livinloud!*
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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Hey there, both ways will be the same volume. If you double your power you will usually experience a 3db gain, in the same token, if you double your cone area you will also gain 3 db. So, if you double your 12's by going from 2 to 4 that is a 3db gain hypothetically, but by doing that you will cut your power in half which will basically make going from 2 to 4 pointless. I would just stick to the 2 12's and run your amp and it's potential. Otherwise like some other posters have said perhaps you can get a new amp for all 4 to run at it's max power at the proper impedance but otherwise i'd just do the 2.




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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Just unscrewed the new set out of the box and realized that they are 2ohm DVCs, my originals were 4 Ohm DVCs. Good Grief! Per Orion spec sheets for the HP12d2 & HP12d4 the specs are slightly different. Back to the drawing board.




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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Quote Originally Posted by UsAmpsFreak View Post
    Hey there, both ways will be the same volume. If you double your power you will usually experience a 3db gain, in the same token, if you double your cone area you will also gain 3 db. So, if you double your 12's by going from 2 to 4 that is a 3db gain hypothetically, but by doing that you will cut your power in half which will basically make going from 2 to 4 pointless. I would just stick to the 2 12's and run your amp and it's potential. Otherwise like some other posters have said perhaps you can get a new amp for all 4 to run at it's max power at the proper impedance but otherwise i'd just do the 2.
    So in theory.... if I started with (2)12 at 180W ...then (4)12s at 360W =gain 3db..... then (4)12 at 720W =additional 3db ..=total gain 6db
    would be the same as ..............(2)12 at 180W....then (2)12s at 360W =gain 3db......then (2)12 at 720W =additional 3db ..=total gain 6db

    So why do people run 4 subs? Is it only cause they're maxing out the watts on each sub? I would have thought that (4)12s at 720W would move more air (based on surface area) than (2) at the same wattage. Does the longer excursion of the(2) subs make up for the smaller surface area?




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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8rfiero View Post
    So in theory.... if I started with (2)12 at 180W ...then (4)12s at 360W =gain 3db..... then (4)12 at 720W =additional 3db ..=total gain 6db
    would be the same as ..............(2)12 at 180W....then (2)12s at 360W =gain 3db......then (2)12 at 720W =additional 3db ..=total gain 6db

    So why do people run 4 subs? Is it only cause they're maxing out the watts on each sub? I would have thought that (4)12s at 720W would move more air (based on surface area) than (2) at the same wattage. Does the longer excursion of the(2) subs make up for the smaller surface area?
    Whenever running ANY amount of subs why not run them at their potential? YES - You would have more cone area with the 4 subs vs 2, however with half the power you are running right now odds are all of that work is not going to seem worth it in the end - PPL run 4 or more subs because they are powering them to their limits and want to get everything they can out of them... More excursion does make up for displacement to a point, hard to say in your situation though with the subs and power you are talking about - results would seem to me to be mediocre at best... I'd continue running your pair you have now @ 1 ohm and take those other subs and exchange them for D4 coil subs as NOW with this being said - You can't really run them al together now anyway as they are different impedance - Unless you get a separate amp and match output voltage on them for the power you have at the given impedance for each set so they output the same rms, but I really wouldn't go that route, just get the right subs and a bigger amp, build yourself a custom ported enclosure for all 4 and then call it a day




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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Cone area is almost always more efficient than power. Running 4 on 400w is going to be louder than 2 on 800w in a proper enclosure. As you approach the limits of the sub, heat buildup causes losses. This is overcome by adding subs and distributing the power across more coils, giving you not only more cone area, but more motor force and therefore displacement. Displacement is what moves air and builds pressure.

    There are exceptions to this rule of course (like typically you can get louder with 8-12 subs than you can with 30 subs) but typically that is a loading and space constraint issue that causes this.

    Do the 4, it'll be louder. One day down the road double your power, it will be noticeably more so.



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    NIHL8ION's Avatar
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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitt View Post
    Cone area is almost always more efficient than power. Running 4 on 400w is going to be louder than 2 on 800w in a proper enclosure. As you approach the limits of the sub, heat buildup causes losses. This is overcome by adding subs and distributing the power across more coils, giving you not only more cone area, but more motor force and therefore displacement. Displacement is what moves air and builds pressure.

    There are exceptions to this rule of course (like typically you can get louder with 8-12 subs than you can with 30 subs) but typically that is a loading and space constraint issue that causes this.

    Do the 4, it'll be louder. One day down the road double your power, it will be noticeably more so.
    I agree with everything you just said - In his case though I doubt the difference in output running only 400 rms to all 4 of them will be all that much of a gain... THAT - AND the fact that he has 2 - D2 subs and 2 - D4 subs now = I wouldn't run them on the same amp = NFG (NoFknGood) Although if this is his plan and he's going to stick with it, I would build a custom enclosure for all 4 and swap out the new ones for the correct VC configuration and then run them all on the 400 rms @ 2 ohms his amp will do untill he upgrades his amp, But I wouldn't just throw 2 more subs back there in a pre fab enclosure and hook em up - Not worth it IMO = Not much of a gain will be noticed for all of the effort




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    *Bought From: cx-7heaven, nutnbutcustm, naughtyca, agarabaghi, Skip01*Traded With: infamous_e46, basswiigee**Sold To: DeanG, R.S.D., livinloud!*
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    Re: 2 subs vs 4 subs which is louder and enclosure style

    Well i've seen some people on here telling you that cone area will always beat power, personally in my 15+ years installing i'd have to disagree. Power has always been the most important thing to me. I'm sure you've heard many systems with only 2 woofers that blew away other vehicles with a lot more woofers. Sometimes this can be attributed to having a bad box design or some other variables but more often than not they have overdone it one woofers and not put the proper power on them or are running them at weird impedances that don't match well with the amp. In theory doubling your cone area is exactly the same as doubling your power (as long as your woofers can continue to get louder with more power, if they have hit their peak you can add more power and it won't make them any louder, depends on the sub).




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