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Reload Thread: The 4th order thread

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    The 4th order thread

    There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding 4th orders these days... So maybe this thread will help to get rid of some of that. Simply ask a question, and I, or anyone else who has knowledge of 4th orders for that matter will answer it. Please keep it strictly about 4th orders. Ask away!







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    Re: The 4th order thread





    heres the beginning of my current 4th order. I will be making a 12" aero, that is what the ring is for. here is the Fc of my rear chamber. Measured with the vehicle sealed and the loading wall off. Its just about right where I want it to be.




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    I will be the first to ask.......Always heard 4th orders, or bandpass boxes in general, had a certain frequency range in the "middle" that would be "dead" with the subs playing fequencies on each side of the "dead zone". Is this true?

    Nice looking box btw.



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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.3bowtie View Post
    I will be the first to ask.......Always heard 4th orders, or bandpass boxes in general, had a certain frequency range in the "middle" that would be "dead" with the subs playing fequencies on each side of the "dead zone". Is this true?

    Nice looking box btw.
    entirely false, actually, its sort of the opposite of that. they will play a bandwidth, but will roll off above and below that bandwidth, however it is a gradual roll off because of the sealed side of the enlcosure.




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Ah ok, so how large of a bandwidth can it hold? Is this dependant uppon drivers, box, both? How does the size of the ported section relative to the size of the sealed section determin box characteristics?

    Sorry for all the newb questions, never had or built or played with a 4th order before......



    2002 Chevy reg. cab
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    Re: The 4th order thread

    One thing I see a lot of in people's build thread is using a really stiff, high Fs woofer (i.e. like DD's) in a 4th and using a small sealed portion, creating a very high Fc/Qtc and they get no lows out of it.



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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Can u guys list a few subs that are 4th order friendly? Do type r's do we'll in 4th orders?




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    You want to look for a high Qts and a low Fs, and a higher Vas generally.

    Type r's are 4th order friendly.



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    Re: The 4th order thread

    DC level 3's and 4's work great. PSI level 1's and 2's work as well. Depending on power you can get them minus a spider to make them more efficient. Seen two 12" psi level one's with only 1 spider sound really loud on a BC2000d.




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.3bowtie View Post
    Ah ok, so how large of a bandwidth can it hold? Is this dependant uppon drivers, box, both? How does the size of the ported section relative to the size of the sealed section determin box characteristics?
    very dependent on the rear chamber, woofers, and ratio. Typically, a larger ratio of sealed to ported will have a smaller passband, but a higher spl. But, if you want to get your low end back, you can throw more power at your woofers. That has worked for me quite well, if your woofers can handle it.
    Sorry for all the newb questions, never had or built or played with a 4th order before......
    questions are a great thing! thats why I made this thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    One thing I see a lot of in people's build thread is using a really stiff, high Fs woofer (i.e. like DD's) in a 4th and using a small sealed portion, creating a very high Fc/Qtc and they get no lows out of it.
    Most of the people that I have met/seen that do that, are using very large ratios (above 5:1) and are strictly doing it for spl burps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garcia915 View Post
    Can u guys list a few subs that are 4th order friendly? Do type r's do we'll in 4th orders?
    type rs would be great, soft suspension and low fs, otherwise, The sa series is another favorite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    You want to look for a high Qts and a low Fs, and a higher Vas generally.

    Type r's are 4th order friendly.
    yup yup. I would like to swap out the sa's for r's just for an experiment, but the r's wouldnt fit in my flush mount lol




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    When you say a 5:1 ratio, does that mean the sealed portion or the vented portion is larger?



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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.3bowtie View Post
    When you say a 5:1 ratio, does that mean the sealed portion or the vented portion is larger?
    the vented side, which is referred to as the front chamber, is the larger portion. and it is always either the same size, or larger than the sealed portion, which is referred to as the rear chamber. so 5:1 = Front:rear




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    You could start by explaining the fact that the term "4th order" is a bit of a misnomer since a regular ol' ported box is also a 4th order. Lol.



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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    You could start by explaining the fact that the term "4th order" is a bit of a misnomer since a regular ol' ported box is also a 4th order. Lol.
    I thought about just filling up the first post with everything that I know, but thats no fun, and too much information at once is hard for some people to comprehend. so please, take it away if you wish.

    ---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

    I suppose we could start using the term "4th order BP"




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    Re: The 4th order thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DbDesigns View Post
    I thought about just filling up the first post with everything that I know, but thats no fun, and too much information at once is hard for some people to comprehend. so please, take it away if you wish.

    ---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

    I suppose we could start using the term "4th order BP"
    Or single reflex bandpass. But that could include a series tuned "6th" order and quasi 8th too, I suppose.

    Anyway... why don't you go into detail about how you arrived at the graph and the tuning for the box you posted for those who don't know. And why we tune to sealed resonance.

    And how one might arrive at tuning without a "Woofer Tester."

    How ratios affect bandwidth.

    How to figure port area. And how tuning or other factors affect said area.

    How the size of the sealed chamber affects response.



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