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    wall question for pros

    Wanting to get some advice from the pros and oldschool junkies in the hobby. I'm doing a wall in a 92 Bronco with 8 12's and I have been getting mixed opinions on whats best for audible loudness purposes. I was told a bandpass would be my only option for a wall because of what I'm wanting. And a bandpass has self internal loading walls therefore putting the pressure and audible loudness by the time the wave comes out at my ears in the seats.

    If I was to do a regular wall with all subs and port firing forward in any position, will cause the subs and port to load off the front windshield, dash, and firewall and putting all the sound and pressure out the windows and scattered everywhere else but at my ears.

    The subs I'm going to be using plot well in a 4th order with .8cu per sub @44hz tuning and 1.4cu sealed per. The response is as flat as anything musical should be from 26-70hz before any +/-3db. Also without taking into any account for cabin gain.



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    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.




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    Re: wall question for pros

    sounds like your on the right track so far

    get with John Hone on FB or YT he will confirm or assist you. he is the GOD of 4th order walls.



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    Re: wall question for pros

    What kind of subwoofers are they? Qes on them?



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    Re: wall question for pros

    will 8 12's with port fit facing forward? That might be why people are saying your only option is a 4th order



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    Re: wall question for pros

    Quote Originally Posted by TnT_Sounds View Post
    Wanting to get some advice from the pros and oldschool junkies in the hobby. I'm doing a wall in a 92 Bronco with 8 12's and I have been getting mixed opinions on whats best for audible loudness purposes. I was told a bandpass would be my only option for a wall because of what I'm wanting. And a bandpass has self internal loading walls therefore putting the pressure and audible loudness by the time the wave comes out at my ears in the seats.

    If I was to do a regular wall with all subs and port firing forward in any position, will cause the subs and port to load off the front windshield, dash, and firewall and putting all the sound and pressure out the windows and scattered everywhere else but at my ears.

    The subs I'm going to be using plot well in a 4th order with .8cu per sub @44hz tuning and 1.4cu sealed per. The response is as flat as anything musical should be from 26-70hz before any +/-3db. Also without taking into any account for cabin gain.
    Due to the amount of pressure that will be caused in such a small acoustical environment, with 8 12s, unless you are concerned with actual spl numbers, will be sufficient in any design properly made. But the ratio of the cabin area with the subs acoustical chamber has to be calculated together for an overall response of the design. This is actually true with any design. If you consider a ported design, it is actually going to act like a bandpass anyhow, but since the environment is so acoustically small compared to the power and compression it will be given, a smooth response will be likely in any position of the vehicle in this case. Yes, vehicle resonances will exist, but with that much reverberation and reflection from the vehicles properties in relation to the subs acoustical chamber properties, it will sound likely no different than actually sticking your head inside an enclosure, which you will notice if this is done, that the response curve does become flat...audibly anyhow.

    So, not so much emphasis on phase direction and loading of a specific position should be considered rather than finding the coupling of the enclosure and the vehicle by calculating it as a quasi design. So, two ways about going with this....I'm not going to tell exactly how, because this is something I have figured myself and gives me the reason to do what I do, but like mentioned, one of those ways is to figure for a quasi 4th, if your using a slot ported design, and calculate the front cabin area(what is left) as a ported acoustical compression chamber for the enclosure design. This should give you a good idea of what it will do. Using a 6th order as a wall can be calculated as an 8th order BP as well. Again, when doing wall design, considering the cabin as a compression area of the design is very important to get the ratio of chambers correct.

    Does that help at all? If not, I can do the design for you if you like.

    As far as the scattering of sound everywhere but your ears, no, it will scatter like that, but will include any listening position as well, with max power levels. The lower the volume, the more you will begin to notice the resonances though, if you are concerned about musical output as well.
    Just some thoughts.





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    Re: wall question for pros

    ^^this^^ 8 12s in a Bronco? Any type of 4th wall is almost gonna sound the same. I love broncos used to have a bronco deuce those things corner like champs especially with trailers behind them.




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    Re: wall question for pros

    Quote Originally Posted by SicAudio View Post
    sounds like your on the right track so far

    get with John Hone on FB or YT he will confirm or assist you. he is the GOD of 4th order walls.
    Cool thanks... Where are you at in Colorado?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsdriller View Post
    will 8 12's with port fit facing forward? That might be why people are saying your only option is a 4th order
    Yes they will fit i have nearly 70" wide I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    Due to the amount of pressure that will be caused in such a small acoustical environment, with 8 12s, unless you are concerned with actual spl numbers, will be sufficient in any design properly made. But the ratio of the cabin area with the subs acoustical chamber has to be calculated together for an overall response of the design. This is actually true with any design. If you consider a ported design, it is actually going to act like a bandpass anyhow, but since the environment is so acoustically small compared to the power and compression it will be given, a smooth response will be likely in any position of the vehicle in this case. Yes, vehicle resonances will exist, but with that much reverberation and reflection from the vehicles properties in relation to the subs acoustical chamber properties, it will sound likely no different than actually sticking your head inside an enclosure, which you will notice if this is done, that the response curve does become flat...audibly anyhow.

    So, not so much emphasis on phase direction and loading of a specific position should be considered rather than finding the coupling of the enclosure and the vehicle by calculating it as a quasi design. So, two ways about going with this....I'm not going to tell exactly how, because this is something I have figured myself and gives me the reason to do what I do, but like mentioned, one of those ways is to figure for a quasi 4th, if your using a slot ported design, and calculate the front cabin area(what is left) as a ported acoustical compression chamber for the enclosure design. This should give you a good idea of what it will do. Using a 6th order as a wall can be calculated as an 8th order BP as well. Again, when doing wall design, considering the cabin as a compression area of the design is very important to get the ratio of chambers correct.

    Does that help at all? If not, I can do the design for you if you like.

    As far as the scattering of sound everywhere but your ears, no, it will scatter like that, but will include any listening position as well, with max power levels. The lower the volume, the more you will begin to notice the resonances though, if you are concerned about musical output as well.
    Just some thoughts.
    Yes all that is good info, some lost me, but I think I got it. I would love to have you design something but my build funds are way tight and I was lucky enough to get some great deals from db drive for equipment.



    3 8's

    39.9 consistently

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.

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    Re: wall question for pros

    im way north in Platteville..ur still down in Pueblo area right? i got a friend on ROE from that way...



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    Re: wall question for pros

    yeah somewhere near there. I dont frequent roe anymore



    3 8's

    39.9 consistently

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.

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    Re: wall question for pros

    Quote Originally Posted by TnT_Sounds View Post
    Cool thanks... Where are you at in Colorado?



    Yes they will fit i have nearly 70" wide I believe.



    Yes all that is good info, some lost me, but I think I got it. I would love to have you design something but my build funds are way tight and I was lucky enough to get some great deals from db drive for equipment.
    No problem. I can still help if possible with some advice when needed, just PM me anytime. I'm always around.





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    Re: wall question for pros

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    No problem. I can still help if possible with some advice when needed, just PM me anytime. I'm always around.

    these are the types of members this site needs..



    Quote Originally Posted by slammedincouch View Post
    Sic rolled me in front of my mom earlier...
    Quote Originally Posted by misfit138 View Post
    How did you manage to pack that much stupid into such a small amount of words?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    I got rick rolled by SicAudio lulz
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    I just got rick rolled by SicAudio again lulz.
    Quote Originally Posted by chickaboom View Post
    awww.... dude! I can't believe you were the first! to rick roll me! I am a noob!
    sold to: Johnny Law.Lulz/Worstenemy453,Pumkinman, j1b1e1, DexterMoped, miyagi gboo559,CSU87,nate2587, MichaelLane, SmLLySack. MR_Imperial, Herrrerra, ltr450racer690, 05fronty bought from: TripleB45, bigwheel15, (kroid77 but never recieved..)
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    Re: wall question for pros

    Quote Originally Posted by Moble Enclosurs View Post
    No problem. I can still help if possible with some advice when needed, just PM me anytime. I'm always around.

    these are the types of members this site needs..



    Quote Originally Posted by slammedincouch View Post
    Sic rolled me in front of my mom earlier...
    Quote Originally Posted by misfit138 View Post
    How did you manage to pack that much stupid into such a small amount of words?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    I got rick rolled by SicAudio lulz
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    I just got rick rolled by SicAudio again lulz.
    Quote Originally Posted by chickaboom View Post
    awww.... dude! I can't believe you were the first! to rick roll me! I am a noob!
    sold to: Johnny Law.Lulz/Worstenemy453,Pumkinman, j1b1e1, DexterMoped, miyagi gboo559,CSU87,nate2587, MichaelLane, SmLLySack. MR_Imperial, Herrrerra, ltr450racer690, 05fronty bought from: TripleB45, bigwheel15, (kroid77 but never recieved..)
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    Re: wall question for pros

    Quote Originally Posted by SicAudio View Post
    these are the types of members this site needs..
    Thank you for the support! I am very happy to see that what I do is helpful.





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    Re: wall question for pros

    I could design you a 4th order if you want. Just send me a PM.




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    Re: wall question for pros

    What you have been told or how you are interpreting this "advice" is wrong.

    You are saying a 4th order bandpass is good because it will reach your ears but a normal 4th order will scatter everywhere and go out the windows?

    You need to do some more research on what you want and how you are going to get there.

    When you have a port forward firing in a wall, it's always best to have it, if optimal, on one side of the vehicle.
    Preferrably driver side.

    Your higher score will usually come from passenger side.

    If it's swapped, typical interference from the steering wheel can cause score to go down.
    Not all vehicles do that though but most do.

    It is typical the pressure will increase when the window\door that is on same side as port is open.

    IF pressure decreases when you do this, then you have displaced more volume in the vehicle than what is forward the B pillar.
    This is the actual goal when building a wall but not all walls will be able to do this based on goals.

    This is also why many vehicles into the 170s and higher need to be sealed to continue gaining pressure.




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