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    Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    Let me ask you all this: What would you recommend for a listener to build a box at with the specs for an Infinity Kappa Perfect DVQ 10" (for everyday use, not competition. Specs below) with a variety of music styles, ample trunk space, looking for a good fill without being too boomy? Also, when I use these box building programs, is it a bad thing to look for a flat response around that + or- 3db threshold? You know how sometimes you get that hump at the lowest range of the tuning? What is that, anyway?

    Specs for my sub:

    Perfect10d VQ
    Diameter 10" (250mm)
    Sensitivity @ 2.83V/1m 90dB
    Power Handling 400W RMS/1600W
    Frequency Response 25Hz 400Hz 25Hz
    Impedance per voice coil 4 ohms
    Voice-Coil Diameter 3" (77mm)
    Mounting Depth 6-1/2" (166mm)
    Overall Diameter 10-1/2" (267mm) 10-1/2" (267mm)
    Cut-Out Diameter 9-5/16" (237mm)
    Basket Displacement .072 ft^3 (2.04 L)
    Voice-Coil DC Resistance Revc 1.66 ohms
    Voice-Coil Inductance Levc 0.8mH
    Driver Radiating Area Sd .344 ft2 (.0323M^2)
    Motor Force Factor BL w/MidQ Insert 9.33
    Compliance Volume Vas 1.32 ft3 (37.65 L)
    Suspension Compliance Cmd 254.13uM/N
    Moving Mass, Air Load Mms 157.9g
    Moving Mass, Diaphragm Mmd 154.56g
    Free-Air Resonance Fs 25.13Hz
    Mechanical Q Qms 10.24
    Electrical Q Qes w/MidQ Insert .46
    Total Q Qts w/MidQ Insert .44 .
    Magnetic-Gap Height Hag 3/8" (10mm)
    Voice-Coil Height Hvc 1-11/16" (43.5mm)
    Maximum One-Way Linear Excursion Xmax 11/16" (16.75mm)

    If you get an issue with errors in these numbers, I feel your pain. They're exact, though.
    1. What freq should I tune the box to?
    2. What is the most reasonable box size for it?
    3. Do you like pie?

    Bracing for the criticism....GO!







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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    32-35 hz for daily
    thats up to you but 1 cubes for sealed 1.5 for ported give or take a bit
    yea chocolate pie bangs



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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    I'm no expert, but for the need you specified it sounds like you would be happier with a sealed box of the right cubes.

    If your not competing and want accurate reproduction in types of music other than rappy or hip hop, i.e. Classical, Jazz, Blues, Pop, you don't want to tune your box at all.

    You want the thump that was thier at recording, no more no less. and your looking for SQ fill rich deep bass as you stated.

    Just use a sealed box of the right size. It won't be as loud, but it will hit accuratly and sharply and will sound outstanding with any type of music.




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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Databyter View Post
    You want the thump that was thier at recording, no more no less. and your looking for SQ fill rich deep bass as you stated.
    And why do you assume that the inherent early roll off of a sealed box is the intended sound? Wouldn't it seem more logical to use tones to figure out how to get a flat(or close to it) in the intended bandwidth? I know a sealed box can't do this in my truck since it peaks in the mid 50's, but a kinda large, low-tuned box can help level out the <40hz range that a sealed box cannot.



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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanM923 View Post
    And why do you assume that the inherent early roll off of a sealed box is the intended sound? Wouldn't it seem more logical to use tones to figure out how to get a flat(or close to it) in the intended bandwidth? I know a sealed box can't do this in my truck since it peaks in the mid 50's, but a kinda large, low-tuned box can help level out the <40hz range that a sealed box cannot.
    I'm not assuming anything, I'm here to learn.

    However most experts I have read, listened to or discussed with agree that for the requirements of the OP a sealed Box would be a superior solution.

    And no, it does not seem more logical to me but maybe you can explain it to me.

    How exactly is a sealed enclosure, constructed to hold a speaker designed for it in any way improved by the arguably limited port tuning other than low end thump and volume, or as you said to compensate for shortcomings in a speakers range (lots of low end shelf units use port tuning to compensate to get more volume out of a more economical lower power system, and of course it's tuned where the weakness lies with decent results.

    I'm not saying you can't have SQ with a ported box, I'm just saying you're probably paddling upstream to do it.

    It would be painful to listen to a full range drum solo, most orchestral works, and a lot of Jazz, folk and light pop , (to name a few) with 95% of port tuned boxes I have heard in my town.

    I've made a few boxes in my time for bands and such, and I ported every one of em and they sounded great, but it was just for volume and beat not for accurate reproduction of a recording of complex tones.

    If the OP doesn't want record setting volume, stated that he listens to ALL kinds of music, wants a good fill without being boomy, and is troubled by the low end thump, well he just described the need for a sealed enclosure.

    What you call an inherent early roll off I call snappy accurate bass response. It sure sounds like the OP doesn't want any boomyness or sustain. For rappers, Hip Hop etc a good ported box is more than a music monitor, it's an instrument, and maybe you're an artist in this field, But I, like the OP don't want my Sub to be an instrument, I want it to be a monitor, and it's gonna be a hard argument to convince most people that a sealed enclosure isn't a good way to get ya there.

    And why do you assume that the inherent early roll off of a sealed box is the intended sound?
    Because if it wasn't intended to roll off, the electrons would still be flowing.
    Last edited by Databyter; 04-29-2010 at 10:27 AM.




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    soldiermedic's Avatar
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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    I'm totally digging the conversation, thanks a bunch. Now, I need to understand that "flat response" issue. Anyway, Ideas on how large a sealed box I could go with? ir is it just hit and miss since a sealed box is easier to test?




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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    I am not an expert in SQ but it would seem to me you would want to adjust the size of the sealed enclosure to modify the Fb of the enclosure to fit the inherent resonant frequency of the vehicle, no? I for instance have a truck that peaks around 50ish Hz, and if I tune my box to 40, it peaks at 50. If I tune my box to 30 it peaks at 40 and so on, (I know this because I have built a ton of boxes for this truck) so if I wanted flat response I would have to build a sealed enclosure, then meter it at all the different Hz to find the peak and then adjust the box size until I effectively got rid of the peak by moving it around till it is in a "low" spot, thus flattening the output. Does this make any sense? LOL! I am trying to help and learn at the same time!



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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Databyter View Post
    I'm not assuming anything, I'm here to learn.

    However most experts I have read, listened to or discussed with agree that for the requirements of the OP a sealed Box would be a superior solution.

    And no, it does not seem more logical to me but maybe you can explain it to me.

    How exactly is a sealed enclosure, constructed to hold a speaker designed for it in any way improved by the arguably limited port tuning other than low end thump and volume, or as you said to compensate for shortcomings in a speakers range (lots of low end shelf units use port tuning to compensate to get more volume out of a more economical lower power system, and of course it's tuned where the weakness lies with decent results.

    I'm not saying you can't have SQ with a ported box, I'm just saying you're probably paddling upstream to do it.

    It would be painful to listen to a full range drum solo, most orchestral works, and a lot of Jazz, folk and light pop , (to name a few) with 95% of port tuned boxes I have heard in my town.

    I've made a few boxes in my time for bands and such, and I ported every one of em and they sounded great, but it was just for volume and beat not for accurate reproduction of a recording of complex tones.

    If the OP doesn't want record setting volume, stated that he listens to ALL kinds of music, wants a good fill without being boomy, and is troubled by the low end thump, well he just described the need for a sealed enclosure.

    What you call an inherent early roll off I call snappy accurate bass response. It sure sounds like the OP doesn't want any boomyness or sustain. For rappers, Hip Hop etc a good ported box is more than a music monitor, it's an instrument, and maybe you're an artist in this field, But I, like the OP don't want my Sub to be an instrument, I want it to be a monitor, and it's gonna be a hard argument to convince most people that a sealed enclosure isn't a good way to get ya there.



    Because if it wasn't intended to roll off, the electrons would still be flowing.
    I've just never understood how people can think that a sealed box delivers a flat response...it simply does not, I don't care how big the box is or what vehicle it is in. Without insane attenuation on the higher frequencies that you have the sub playing, you're not going to get comparable output at 30hz and 60hz...just not going to happen. I built a ported box that was designed itself to be flat from 30-80hz, outside of vehicle. Put it in my truck, and I'm still 6db down at 30hz compared to my 55hz reading. Now imagine how much my 30hz area would have been lacking if I used a sealed box that graphs out to be ~9db lower than my ported box at the same 30hz frequency.

    And if designed right, a ported box doesn't have to be boomy or "inaccurate." Some woofers just do not work well in ported boxes, and their inductance is so high that the group delay is almost unbearable in normal sized ported boxes. That's not the fault of the woofer, it's the fault of the person for not building a box that minimizes these issues.

    And as far as your last line, I was referring to the intended sound of the recording. If the response curve of your system is not flat, then it will not accurately recreate the track at the level it was intended, the way it was recorded. For me, the purpose of a low tuned box is to achieve that flat response(or as close as I can) so that I hear things the way they were intended(level wise). I'm not trying to say that big 18" subs with 3kw and tuned to 40hz is a good example of a musical ported setup...I'm only using a single 10 in a 28hz box being powered by a bridged 200 watt Clarion amp, and I love the all-around smoothness and articulation it has.

    And we all know that most ported box users do not care about sound quality or anything that goes along with it; they just want it loud to impress their friends. Your average local has no idea what goes into making a sub perform a certain way.



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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!





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    Re: Ok all you enclosure Guru's out there!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanM923 View Post
    I've just never understood how people can think that a sealed box delivers a flat response...it simply does not, I don't care how big the box is or what vehicle it is in. Without insane attenuation on the higher frequencies that you have the sub playing, you're not going to get comparable output at 30hz and 60hz...just not going to happen. I built a ported box that was designed itself to be flat from 30-80hz, outside of vehicle. Put it in my truck, and I'm still 6db down at 30hz compared to my 55hz reading. Now imagine how much my 30hz area would have been lacking if I used a sealed box that graphs out to be ~9db lower than my ported box at the same 30hz frequency.

    And if designed right, a ported box doesn't have to be boomy or "inaccurate." Some woofers just do not work well in ported boxes, and their inductance is so high that the group delay is almost unbearable in normal sized ported boxes. That's not the fault of the woofer, it's the fault of the person for not building a box that minimizes these issues.

    And as far as your last line, I was referring to the intended sound of the recording. If the response curve of your system is not flat, then it will not accurately recreate the track at the level it was intended, the way it was recorded. For me, the purpose of a low tuned box is to achieve that flat response(or as close as I can) so that I hear things the way they were intended(level wise). I'm not trying to say that big 18" subs with 3kw and tuned to 40hz is a good example of a musical ported setup...I'm only using a single 10 in a 28hz box being powered by a bridged 200 watt Clarion amp, and I love the all-around smoothness and articulation it has.

    And we all know that most ported box users do not care about sound quality or anything that goes along with it; they just want it loud to impress their friends. Your average local has no idea what goes into making a sub perform a certain way.
    If I ever need a ported box made or advised on I sure know who to ask. It sounds like you take it seriously. I respect your knowledge but still think the sealed is the way to go for the OP.

    Also I'd be interested to see graphic comparisons between high end ported and high end sealed systems vis a vi overall flat response superiority.

    Until then I'll have to remain open but unconvinced.

    cheers!




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