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Reload Thread: Size of sealed box vs loudness

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    ultimate157's Avatar
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    Size of sealed box vs loudness

    First off let me say this: Assume a perfect install.

    I have an Eclipse 8200. the SQ of this sub is amazing. However, there is no SPL at all. my previous 2 10" pioneer TS-W250R's had the ability to vibrate my rear view mirror.

    I have the 8200 in a 1cube sealed. Recommended volume is .75 to 1.25.

    However, I had some people on here tell me i needed like 5-8 cubes for it to be loud.

    My question is this: All variables the same, is a higher volume box, sealed, for this woofer, going to be louder than a 1cube?

    Also, how can I tell if a woofer is being cramped in a box?



    2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6
    Source: Pioneer 880 PRS *Active
    Tweeters: Soon to be Hat Imagine
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    Sub: 15" SSA Icon
    Box: 2.5^3 Sealed
    Amp: Soundstream Tarantula 2kW

    Feedback: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278169




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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    I am not sure about this but I will take a shot.

    I beleive that it will get louder, but you will also start to lose control over it. So I beleive the power handling will go down as box size gets larger.

    So It will be eaiser to over exert than if you had it in a smaller box.

    EDIT 5-8 cubes souds rediculous though.



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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    Bump. Anybody know if you can tell if a sub is being restricted due to a box boing too small?



    2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6
    Source: Pioneer 880 PRS *Active
    Tweeters: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Midrange: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Sub: 15" SSA Icon
    Box: 2.5^3 Sealed
    Amp: Soundstream Tarantula 2kW

    Feedback: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278169

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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    thats a possibility. Try ported as well.



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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    if the sub is cramped in a sealed box, you will have an output peak, and a high freq. rolloff.

    the bigger the box, the less presence of a 'peak' and a lower frequency -3db rolloff.

    A ported box on the other hand, will gain ouput as you increase size, if you keep the tuning frequency the same.

    There's a lot of variables here.

    But no, i wouldn't expect more output in a larger sealed box. Only a lower rolloff frequency, and a smoother response curve.




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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    My problem is this woofer is designed for sealed boxes only. It says many places never to port this sub.

    My problem i'm having is a very strong peak response. It's very loud (im guessing) around 45-50hz. lower than that it drops off like a rock. However, i've been told this woofer is a low end monster, which puzzles me why there is no low end response.

    quicky specs: (its the 8200)


    I'll get the 0db test tones out tomorrow and give you guys some numbers to work with.

    Also, i get the POP whenever i turn my system off. how do i stop this?



    2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6
    Source: Pioneer 880 PRS *Active
    Tweeters: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Midrange: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Sub: 15" SSA Icon
    Box: 2.5^3 Sealed
    Amp: Soundstream Tarantula 2kW

    Feedback: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278169

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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    If your only gonna run that opti at 4ohms then Id make a box around 2 -2.5 cubes for it then to get more output from the sub and youll be happy again.



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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    Quote Originally Posted by ultimate157 View Post
    However, I had some people on here tell me i needed like 5-8 cubes for it to be loud.
    Also, how can I tell if a woofer is being cramped in a box?
    really man whoever told you that is completely ref*cking tarded adn you should not take them seriously. Puttin that sub in a 5-8 cube box would really just make the sub flutter and give you absolutely no output. Putting a woofer recommended for 1 cube sealed in a 5-8 cube box would almost make the woofer act as if it were IB (or the enclosure to big for the sub to see it).

    x2 on the porting idea. maybe add more power. loudness is really all in the design of the enclosure and you could actually end up doing more damage to your sub putting it in that big of an enclosure.



    back at it...

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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    i think when the guy said 5-8 cu ft i think he meant ported, NOT sealed



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    ...........-.80 cu. ft FG sealed

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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    this sub can never be ported. ever. never.









    ever.



    2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6
    Source: Pioneer 880 PRS *Active
    Tweeters: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Midrange: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Sub: 15" SSA Icon
    Box: 2.5^3 Sealed
    Amp: Soundstream Tarantula 2kW

    Feedback: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278169

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    skeptikal's Avatar
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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    Quote Originally Posted by ultimate157 View Post
    this sub can never be ported. ever. never.






    ever.
    well i wouldn't expect it to get any louder than it already is man.



    back at it...

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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptikal View Post
    really man whoever told you that is completely ref*cking tarded adn you should not take them seriously. Puttin that sub in a 5-8 cube box would really just make the sub flutter and give you absolutely no output. Putting a woofer recommended for 1 cube sealed in a 5-8 cube box would almost make the woofer act as if it were IB (or the enclosure to big for the sub to see it).
    Vb = Vas/(qtc/qts)^2-1

    Vb = 8.27/(.707/.42)^2-1 = 4.51cuft



    Likewise, in that 4.51cuft enclosure, the F3 would be 26.9hz...extremely low for car audio, given the transfer function (cabin gain) of the vehicle is going to be adding tremendously to the output at those low frequencies. So yeah..in a car, it should be a "low end monster" in a Qtc .707 alignment.


    It sounds to me, given your description, that the enclosure you are using is simply too small. Larger enclosure will have less peak output, but more output at lower frequencies as it will have a lower F3. This will in turn give you the low frequency extension that you are needing. And with the increased compliance of the larger enclosure, it will allow for more output at higher frequencies with the same level of power. With too small of an enclosure, the compliance decreases (inversely; "stiffness" increases), hence more power is necessary for a given output level. This could also be a culprit in the lack output you are experiencing.


    My advice; Try a bigger enclosure. If you can fit it, build an enclosure of ~4.5cuft and try it out. From then you can begin adding filler to the enclosure to drop the net volume (like scraps of wood) to find the enclosure volume that best suits your goals.




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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    If you want to learn more about how enclosure volume affects the response of the enclosure, do a search. Myself and others have extensively described the relationship.




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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    Quote Originally Posted by squeak9798 View Post
    If you want to learn more about how enclosure volume affects the response of the enclosure, do a search. Myself and others have extensively described the relationship.
    Sweet, thanks for the re-assurance. I've got a Jeep cherokee cargo area to play with, so volume is no problem

    I was just dissapointed that a 12" running on 700w is much quieter at most frequencys than my previous 100w x 2 10" $70 subs.

    I guess a 4 cubic foot box is in order

    edit: the peak is between 35 and 45 hz. those frequencies are very loud. Anything below is barely audible. anything above my 6.5's, even with the crossover slope, is louder.
    Last edited by ultimate157; 09-09-2006 at 04:23 PM.



    2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6
    Source: Pioneer 880 PRS *Active
    Tweeters: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Midrange: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Sub: 15" SSA Icon
    Box: 2.5^3 Sealed
    Amp: Soundstream Tarantula 2kW

    Feedback: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278169

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    ultimate157's Avatar
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    Re: Size of sealed box vs loudness

    If I put my sub in a 4.5 cube sealed, I can only give my woofer 700w RMS as it is a single 4 ohm VC and I'm running a 2000D.

    Is there going to be any problem of physical damage with an enclosure this big?



    2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6
    Source: Pioneer 880 PRS *Active
    Tweeters: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Midrange: Soon to be Hat Imagine
    Sub: 15" SSA Icon
    Box: 2.5^3 Sealed
    Amp: Soundstream Tarantula 2kW

    Feedback: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278169

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