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Reload Thread: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by mclerico83 View Post
    Mass Loaded Vinyl | Soundproofing Materials
    they are local but im not sure if i need this much for my 4 doors i would only need 2 of the home depot rolls correct.
    Automotive Soundproofing | Auto Sound Damping | Car Audio
    this company is also local but im not sure how much their stuff is


    just measure the height and width of the door and that's all you need per door. one roll should do both doors.

    AcoustiBlok is great stuff, but pricey. i couldn't get the other link to work.



    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html




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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    just measure the height and width of the door and that's all you need per door. one roll should do both doors.

    AcoustiBlok is great stuff, but pricey. i couldn't get the other link to work.
    The other link is a local acoustic place that sells mlv 1lb for 130 per 25 ft of roll




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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by mclerico83 View Post
    The other link is a local acoustic place that sells mlv 1lb for 130 per 25 ft of roll
    that's a fair price for the roll. worth it if you want to add a layer of MLV to the floor. if you add to the floor, you need to decouple it, i recommend this:
    UltraTouch 48 in. x 24 ft. Radiant Barrier-30000-11424 - The Home Depot



    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Over ccf like ensolite


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by mclerico83 View Post
    Over ccf like ensolite


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    i'll use CCF to decouple MLV on doors just to save thickness at the expense of performance. but on a floor you have a larger surface and desire more isolation.

    the radiant barrier i linked has many benefits over CCF - namely thickness and materials. it's just as affordable, easier to use, and with a huge performance gain - it's an easy decision. that stuff also works great lining the inside of a speaker/sub enclosure (foil side against the walls).



    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Had a rattle in the rear deck, removed the rear deck to foam it. MLV over the speaker holes. partial completion:







    I also did more foam and filler in the rear deck







    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Getting an Alpine DVA-9861 head unit to pair with the PXA-H701 processor and RUX-C701. This head unit has DVD-Audio capability, fiber optic output, and nicer cosmetics than the DVA-9860 i have.




    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    that's a fair price for the roll. worth it if you want to add a layer of MLV to the floor. if you add to the floor, you need to decouple it, i recommend this:
    UltraTouch 48 in. x 24 ft. Radiant Barrier-30000-11424 - The Home Depot
    what do you mean by decouple it? Im working with an 02 accord v6 sedan and your other forum post is EXTREMELY informative!! Im not yet ready to go as insane as you did with it, but its given me TONS of ideas. Are the sound deadeners youve mentioned in this post a good alternative to something like hushmat? I was considering getting something like this for my trunk http://www.amazon.com/HushMat-10300-...ywords=hushmat but wasnt sure if it would a: work well for a trunk to eliminate rattles from the subs or b: be the ideal stuff to use period. I also plan on removing the rear dash to stop rattling there and wonder what youd recommend for that also.

    MAJOR ups to the detailed info you provide on your builds man!!! Major ups indeed!!!



    2002 Honda Accord sedan V6 (automatic slushbox)
    2 Rockford p3 12s (dual 2 ohm)
    Pioneer AVH-X4500bt
    SQ 2200.1
    Stock front and rears (theyre actually squirrels listening to headphones that ive trained to sing what theyre hearing)

    I just added 5 HKS stickers, and despite having no performance upgrades, it added 213 hp!!!

  11. #70
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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by youdoofus View Post
    what do you mean by decouple it? Im working with an 02 accord v6 sedan and your other forum post is EXTREMELY informative!! Im not yet ready to go as insane as you did with it, but its given me TONS of ideas. Are the sound deadeners youve mentioned in this post a good alternative to something like hushmat? I was considering getting something like this for my trunk http://www.amazon.com/HushMat-10300-...ywords=hushmat but wasnt sure if it would a: work well for a trunk to eliminate rattles from the subs or b: be the ideal stuff to use period. I also plan on removing the rear dash to stop rattling there and wonder what youd recommend for that also.

    MAJOR ups to the detailed info you provide on your builds man!!! Major ups indeed!!!
    thanks for the complements, i aim to help inspire.

    i decouple with something soft - closed cell foam (Ensolite Peel & Stick). MLV is most effective when it is isolated from the other hard surfaces.

    i use Raamaudio BXT II instead of other products like Hushmat - both do the same thing.

    rattles are from hard things rattling against eachother - so you need to not only deaden to make the metal less "tinny" but also put soft things in between the hard things. note i stuff my trunk lids and trunk cavities with absorption (ultratouch insulation in the latest build). you can see the foam i added to my rear deck to cut down on rattles in my recent post above (more Ensolite from Raamaudio).
    RAAMaudio - Automotive sound deadening products



    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Very nice attention to detail in your build log, it's a pleasure to read.

    A couple of things- first, I was under the impression that Ensolite is actually OCF (open cell foam) not a closed cell foam. If it were a CCF, they wouldn't advertise it's absorptional properties- or at least it wouldn't make sense since CCF is a very poor acoustical absorption material, whereas OCF can be decent. I like the product and find it to be very useful for decoupling panels, but the fact that it's very thin makes its usefulness as a sound absorber very poor for anything but the highest frequencies. The PSA stuff rocks though for panels like you've used it here. For a true CCF foam, I like the neoprene from TheFoamFactory.com. reasonable prices there as well.

    Next- Can you explain the fiberglass batt/ceiling tile pieces that are used in the doors and what their purpose is? Doesn't sealing them off in plastic eliminate their sound absorption properties? What effect do they have installed in the doors like this? Is the casing acoustically transparent? To what degree? Also, how waterproof it is ? Seems like a ****** idea if it's actually effective.

    Definitely digging the denim batting. That would be a good thing to install in the cavities of my Mazda to reduce some of that noise. I'll have to take a look for it. Also, is thi smaterial more effective as a sound absorber than the fiberglass insulation? If not, would it then simply be better to use your door method?

    Thanks!


    -Steve




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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by captainobvious! View Post
    Very nice attention to detail in your build log, it's a pleasure to read.

    A couple of things- first, I was under the impression that Ensolite is actually OCF (open cell foam) not a closed cell foam. If it were a CCF, they wouldn't advertise it's absorptional properties- or at least it wouldn't make sense since CCF is a very poor acoustical absorption material, whereas OCF can be decent. I like the product and find it to be very useful for decoupling panels, but the fact that it's very thin makes its usefulness as a sound absorber very poor for anything but the highest frequencies. The PSA stuff rocks though for panels like you've used it here. For a true CCF foam, I like the neoprene from TheFoamFactory.com. reasonable prices there as well.

    Next- Can you explain the fiberglass batt/ceiling tile pieces that are used in the doors and what their purpose is? Doesn't sealing them off in plastic eliminate their sound absorption properties? What effect do they have installed in the doors like this? Is the casing acoustically transparent? To what degree? Also, how waterproof it is ? Seems like a ****** idea if it's actually effective.

    Definitely digging the denim batting. That would be a good thing to install in the cavities of my Mazda to reduce some of that noise. I'll have to take a look for it. Also, is thi smaterial more effective as a sound absorber than the fiberglass insulation? If not, would it then simply be better to use your door method?

    Thanks!


    -Steve
    Thanks for chiming in.

    Ensolite is CCF. it is used for decoupling and mitigating rattles. it is not used for sound absorption and the website is misleading (it doesn't "break up" sound either). i don't use it for sound absorption. i use it to decouple the MLV from the metal, and i use it to prevent the plastic door panel from rattling against the door. it doesn't compress like open cell foam, nor does it absorb moisture.

    it's a common misconception that if you put an absorber in plastic it becomes inert. the thickness of the plastic plays a role but the product still absorbs sound - and is much more effective than OCF.

    fiberglass batt/ceiling tiles wrapped in plastic is what we use for sound absorption in commercial applications. the plastic reduces some high frequency absorption but boosts midbass absorption (membrane properties). i use a 1mil PVC sheet, so it's pretty thin. thicker PVC sheeting would shift absorption ranges even lower. we don't care about high frequency absorption so it's a win. it's stupid effective and in my opinion is a requirement in any car door. without effective sound absorption - a door is a reverberant chamber. we hear the reverberating rear wave some time later as it comes back out through the speaker cone later. this is why simple music can sound good but complex music sounds worse over time. the PVC sheeting keeps the fiberglass dry, which is important. i'm the only one preaching this method (besides those who have also done it and had the benefit). the comparison is that if you do just one door and listen to the untreated door in comparison - the untreated door becomes unlistenable.

    i got the idea while comparing acoustical absorption samples from CMA and realizing we've been looking for a PVC encased fiberglass product. We use PVC encased fiberglass in areas subject to humidity/moisture and we use it above ceilings and acoustical clouds.
    http://www.cmainc.net/ProductDetails...productID=1161
    http://www.cmainc.net/ProductDetails...productID=1163
    Then i came up with an affordable alternative suitable for doors (less than 2" thick). ceiling tiles work better since they are compressed and thinner. compressed fiberglass panels are what we use for sound absorption in all commercial applications. we don't use open cell foam. in professional recording studios we use fiberglass absorption and diffusion and design the room correctly.

    if you look at absorption coefficients for faced fiberglass batt insulation (normal stuff used in walls with the paper facing) - when you put the paper facing out, high frequency absorption drops but midbass absorption increases.
    if you look at bass traps, they use a membrane. low frequencies lose energy by transferring energy into the membrane - you can think of it as moving it while high frequencies mostly reflect. similar to how panel flex is lost energy.

    the denim is a nice alternative to fiberglass and 10x more effective than polyfil. since i can touch it without itching, it's perfect in cavities and i use it in every cavity i can find. it's comparable to fiberglass batt (maybe better, depends on the density of the fiberglass batt).

    what my door is missing is diffusion, but i have enough absorption it's more anechoic than anything.



    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    here are some quilted fiberglass outdoor sound absorption/barriers we use in commercial applications as well. i'll pin them to walls to absorb equipment noise reflections and i'll use them as barriers. the vinyl they use is much thicker for durability and totally waterproof.
    Outdoor Acoustical Curtains
    http://www.soundsense.com/wp-content...07/QA2-EXT.pdf


    more PVC encased fiberglass banners
    Banners | Golterman & Sabo | St Louis Missouri

    denim insulation
    http://www.soundsense.com/wp-content...Insulation.pdf
    and you can get Ultratouch at major improvement stores (lowes, home depot, menards, etc.)
    Bonded Logic - Manufacturer of Environmentally Friendly Insulation and Padding Products



    got a question? shoot me a PM. Matthew 6:9-15 - YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkYUo2EShW9lgtrfXiDvLNQ/videos
    2014 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive.html
    2001 Accord build log: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html
    2011 Scion tc: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/625345-kha-does-2011-scion-tc.html
    2005 Scion tC: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/516096-2005-scion-tc-sq-hertz-audison-pioneer-build-log.html

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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    Thanks for chiming in.

    Ensolite is CCF. it is used for decoupling and mitigating rattles. it is not used for sound absorption and the website is misleading (it doesn't "break up" sound either). i don't use it for sound absorption. i use it to decouple the MLV from the metal, and i use it to prevent the plastic door panel from rattling against the door. it doesn't compress like open cell foam, nor does it absorb moisture.


    This is the same application I use it in as well. It's wonderful for that. It would be nice if they clearly listed what this foam was on the site (OCF/CCF) as that makes a difference in many applications. If it is indeed a CCF, then you're right, it's a fallacy to tout it as a good sound absorber because CCF is useless for that.


    it's a common misconception that if you put an absorber in plastic it becomes inert. the thickness of the plastic plays a role but the product still absorbs sound - and is much more effective than OCF.

    fiberglass batt/ceiling tiles wrapped in plastic is what we use for sound absorption in commercial applications. the plastic reduces some high frequency absorption but boosts midbass absorption (membrane properties). i use a 1mil PVC sheet, so it's pretty thin. thicker PVC sheeting would shift absorption ranges even lower. we don't care about high frequency absorption so it's a win. it's stupid effective and in my opinion is a requirement in any car door. without effective sound absorption - a door is a reverberant chamber. we hear the reverberating rear wave some time later as it comes back out through the speaker cone later. this is why simple music can sound good but complex music sounds worse over time. the PVC sheeting keeps the fiberglass dry, which is important. i'm the only one preaching this method (besides those who have also done it and had the benefit). the comparison is that if you do just one door and listen to the untreated door in comparison - the untreated door becomes unlistenable.

    This is what I was confused about. But I found that there are acoustically transparent (or to a degree) materials when searching on the subject and thought that was a wonderful idea you had. It makes total sense. My concern was the fiberglass batting and moisture, but as long as it stays dry... Also, why do you compress the batting? Is it more effective at trapping lower frequencies when compressed vs not? I thought the thicker the material, the more effective it becomes as frequency drops. Would like to learn more about that.


    i got the idea while comparing acoustical absorption samples from CMA and realizing we've been looking for a PVC encased fiberglass product. We use PVC encased fiberglass in areas subject to humidity/moisture and we use it above ceilings and acoustical clouds.
    CMA
    CMA
    Then i came up with an affordable alternative suitable for doors (less than 2" thick). ceiling tiles work better since they are compressed and thinner. compressed fiberglass panels are what we use for sound absorption in all commercial applications. we don't use open cell foam. in professional recording studios we use fiberglass absorption and diffusion and design the room correctly.

    if you look at absorption coefficients for faced fiberglass batt insulation (normal stuff used in walls with the paper facing) - when you put the paper facing out, high frequency absorption drops but midbass absorption increases.
    if you look at bass traps, they use a membrane. low frequencies lose energy by transferring energy into the membrane - you can think of it as moving it while high frequencies mostly reflect. similar to how panel flex is lost energy.

    the denim is a nice alternative to fiberglass and 10x more effective than polyfil. since i can touch it without itching, it's perfect in cavities and i use it in every cavity i can find. it's comparable to fiberglass batt (maybe better, depends on the density of the fiberglass batt).

    what my door is missing is diffusion, but i have enough absorption it's more anechoic than anything.


    Some responses in red above.


    Thanks!




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    Re: 2014 Accord Sport SQ Build keep_hope_alive

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    here are some quilted fiberglass outdoor sound absorption/barriers we use in commercial applications as well. i'll pin them to walls to absorb equipment noise reflections and i'll use them as barriers. the vinyl they use is much thicker for durability and totally waterproof.
    Outdoor Acoustical Curtains
    http://www.soundsense.com/wp-content...07/QA2-EXT.pdf



    more PVC encased fiberglass banners
    Banners | Golterman & Sabo | St Louis Missouri

    denim insulation
    http://www.soundsense.com/wp-content...Insulation.pdf
    and you can get Ultratouch at major improvement stores (lowes, home depot, menards, etc.)
    Bonded Logic - Manufacturer of Environmentally Friendly Insulation and Padding Products


    That's really cool stuff right there. Thanks for sharing.




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