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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by seg_representin View Post
    Yeah let me know about the show. Where do you do work in Peoria? I've only been to Friar Tucks one time for wine (for the gf) and it has a huge selection of wine and pretty much anything you want. I didn't look at the liquor prices to compare the prices, but it was more upscale than a binny's beverage depot.
    as an Electrical Engineer I design electrical systems for hospitals and hospital campuses. I do a lot of work for OSF's campuses throughout IL. They are a great organization to work with and I really like them as a client. They are the type of client we hope to have.

    The beer selection at Friar Tuck's is my reason for going.



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    bloomington show was pretty lame, cops showed up within 5 minutes. Demo guys all left, but burp cars hung around.

    When is the QC show as that's 3hrs for me, so I'd be down for that trip. I might hit up a Mobile Wiring show at Cordova this year, one of the Midnight Mayhem shows....




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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by mlstrass View Post
    bloomington show was pretty lame, cops showed up within 5 minutes. Demo guys all left, but burp cars hung around.

    When is the QC show as that's 3hrs for me, so I'd be down for that trip. I might hit up a Mobile Wiring show at Cordova this year, one of the Midnight Mayhem shows....
    QC is just under 2 hrs from Peoria.

    we will have the van at all of the Mobile Wiring shows this year (that's the plan anyway).



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    QC is just under 2 hrs from Peoria.

    we will have the van at all of the Mobile Wiring shows this year (that's the plan anyway).
    Do you have a schedule for the mobile wiring shows?




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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    EVERY single vehicle I have tested for resonance with the "sealed box trick" has shown 43-45hz. Every one of them. Be it a full size van or teeny tiny hatch.

    I'm sure you're aware of this, but I figure it's worth mentioning.. normally, if you believe your resonance to be 45hz, you'd want to tune your SPL port 3-5hz below that. Although I don't personally put much stock into tuning for resonant frequency anyway.

    Any reason you decided to go with that shape of box? And the port on the same plane as the sub?

    I'm super curious to see the SPL numbers between the two ports. If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that there won't be a heck of a lot of difference. And it wouldn't surprise me if the lower tuned one is actually louder.

    Tuned in either way.



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    How are you identifing the resonance in the vehicles you've tested - by SPL meter or by an actual impedance plot?
    The box(es) you are testing with - are they built to .707 alignments or other?


    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    EVERY single vehicle I have tested for resonance with the "sealed box trick" has shown 43-45hz. Every one of them. Be it a full size van or teeny tiny hatch.

    I'm sure you're aware of this, but I figure it's worth mentioning.. normally, if you believe your resonance to be 45hz, you'd want to tune your SPL port 3-5hz below that. Although I don't personally put much stock into tuning for resonant frequency anyway.

    Any reason you decided to go with that shape of box? And the port on the same plane as the sub?

    I'm super curious to see the SPL numbers between the two ports. If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that there won't be a heck of a lot of difference. And it wouldn't surprise me if the lower tuned one is actually louder.

    Tuned in either way.




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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    as an Electrical Engineer I design electrical systems for hospitals and hospital campuses. I do a lot of work for OSF's campuses throughout IL. They are a great organization to work with and I really like them as a client. They are the type of client we hope to have.

    The beer selection at Friar Tuck's is my reason for going.
    Yeah I have heard alot of great things about OSF in peoria. I am also a EE, but just getting to learn more things about the audio side of it. Would love to hear the van when you get it finished. I might do an sq build in my new car, but I haven't decided whether I want to tear it all apart since its my only car and I need it on a daily basis.



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by n8skow View Post
    How are you identifing the resonance in the vehicles you've tested - by SPL meter or by an actual impedance plot?
    The box(es) you are testing with - are they built to .707 alignments or other?
    You don't need to align it to .707 if you do in-vehicle and anechoic. Although, if you know your alignment is, in fact, .707, you don't NEED to do the anechoic. In the past, when I cared to find it, I did in-vehicle SPL measurements and compared it to the anechoic. The largest desparity between the two is the point of the most "cabin gain".

    If you do the math between say a hatch and a van, the difference between them is relatively small as far as sub bass wavelengths are concerned. For example... take 10ft for a hatch or whatever and even 20ft for a van, maybe. 1/4 wave of 10ft is 28hz. 1/4 wave for 20ft is half that, so 14hz. But both of those are too low for SPL purposes, so take the half wave. That's 56hz and 28hz. 56hz is lovely, but 28 is still too **** low. So take the full wave. Right back to 56hz. So seemingly... a hatch and van will both benefit from 56hz.

    In my world, I'm much more concerned with tuning for impedance rise than "resonant frequency". The car is going to peak where it wants to. I can put a daily in my CRX and you'll see two distinct SPL peaks. One near tuning and one near where I know what the car wants. Regardless of tuning, I'll see that bump. The trick is not to force the note there, but to massage the impedence rise to it's lowest point at or near that note. That might be by tuning above that note. It may be on the nose. And I honetly can't tell you what my SPL boxes are "tuned" to because I don't tune them. I test them. It's tuned to where it's the loudest.



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Interesting points...
    It sounds like your objective is to get as much power as possible out of the amp though rather than the most efficiency?


    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    You don't need to align it to .707 if you do in-vehicle and anechoic. Although, if you know your alignment is, in fact, .707, you don't NEED to do the anechoic. In the past, when I cared to find it, I did in-vehicle SPL measurements and compared it to the anechoic. The largest desparity between the two is the point of the most "cabin gain".

    If you do the math between say a hatch and a van, the difference between them is relatively small as far as sub bass wavelengths are concerned. For example... take 10ft for a hatch or whatever and even 20ft for a van, maybe. 1/4 wave of 10ft is 28hz. 1/4 wave for 20ft is half that, so 14hz. But both of those are too low for SPL purposes, so take the half wave. That's 56hz and 28hz. 56hz is lovely, but 28 is still too **** low. So take the full wave. Right back to 56hz. So seemingly... a hatch and van will both benefit from 56hz.

    In my world, I'm much more concerned with tuning for impedance rise than "resonant frequency". The car is going to peak where it wants to. I can put a daily in my CRX and you'll see two distinct SPL peaks. One near tuning and one near where I know what the car wants. Regardless of tuning, I'll see that bump. The trick is not to force the note there, but to massage the impedence rise to it's lowest point at or near that note. That might be by tuning above that note. It may be on the nose. And I honetly can't tell you what my SPL boxes are "tuned" to because I don't tune them. I test them. It's tuned to where it's the loudest.




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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by n8skow View Post
    Interesting points...
    It sounds like your objective is to get as much power as possible out of the amp though rather than the most efficiency?
    Well... it's USACi. Birthplace of the stupid 4ohm rating game and cheater amps. So I have to run the balls off of my amps. But most of my post would translate to other orgs. Especially the "test vs tune" part. IMO, people are far too concerned with the tuning of their SPL boxes.

    I wish they'd go to a clamped format so I could stop buying USACi specific amps and wiring them down to .17 ohm.

    It's all about testing and KHA knows this and has the chops to do the work and glean the important aspects of test results. I didnt' mean to derail his thread.



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  13. #41
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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    EVERY single vehicle I have tested for resonance with the "sealed box trick" has shown 43-45hz. Every one of them. Be it a full size van or teeny tiny hatch.

    I'm sure you're aware of this, but I figure it's worth mentioning.. normally, if you believe your resonance to be 45hz, you'd want to tune your SPL port 3-5hz below that. Although I don't personally put much stock into tuning for resonant frequency anyway.

    Any reason you decided to go with that shape of box? And the port on the same plane as the sub?

    I'm super curious to see the SPL numbers between the two ports. If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that there won't be a heck of a lot of difference. And it wouldn't surprise me if the lower tuned one is actually louder.

    Tuned in either way.
    i didn't post enclosure response curves (calculated) but the SPL tuning will burp louder at 45Hz (or so) than the SQ tuning.

    I agree we want to operate the sub ABOVE the tuning frequency. that port will be removable and adjustable for post-construction adjustment.

    the angle was on purpose, the end result will be a horn built into the rear of the van (and removable).

    ---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
    Well... it's USACi. Birthplace of the stupid 4ohm rating game and cheater amps. So I have to run the balls off of my amps. But most of my post would translate to other orgs. Especially the "test vs tune" part. IMO, people are far too concerned with the tuning of their SPL boxes.

    I wish they'd go to a clamped format so I could stop buying USACi specific amps and wiring them down to .17 ohm.

    It's all about testing and KHA knows this and has the chops to do the work and glean the important aspects of test results. I didnt' mean to derail his thread.
    no derail, this is on topic for the purpose of the build and your input is always welcome.



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    almost ready to close up the box. front will be three total layers. the middle layer has T-nuts.




    the inside layer will help keep the t-nuts in place, and to mount flush i used a Forstner bit to carve out a recess for the t-nuts


    glued, clamped, and screwed the middle layer






    Then i made a center brace. all but one cut was done with a plunge router




    test fit





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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    next we'll wood glue the braces and then go over the inside seams with liquid nails.

    i am still planning on making a 8x8 square port above the sub on the face of the box that will be tuned for 42Hz for 45Hz burps. But that will happen after I run the sub for a while in this configuration, the tuning will be around 27-28Hz given 72" of port area and 27-28" length.

    The center brace happened the way it did because i needed a wall for the port anyway, then realized the enclosure was too big to go without a window brace.



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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
    next we'll wood glue the braces and then go over the inside seams with liquid nails.

    i am still planning on making a 8x8 square port above the sub on the face of the box that will be tuned for 42Hz for 45Hz burps. But that will happen after I run the sub for a while in this configuration, the tuning will be around 27-28Hz given 72" of port area and 27-28" length.

    The center brace happened the way it did because i needed a wall for the port anyway, then realized the enclosure was too big to go without a window brace.
    What do you call that thing that clamps down to the sheet of wood for a straight edge. Looks really handy, I'd order one if I knew what it was called so I could search for it.




  17. #45
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    Re: KHA does an SPL build - 1996 Astro Van

    Quote Originally Posted by hispls View Post
    What do you call that thing that clamps down to the sheet of wood for a straight edge. Looks really handy, I'd order one if I knew what it was called so I could search for it.
    Buy 3-Piece BORA Clamp Edge Tool Guide Set at Woodcraft

    straight edge clamping saw guide. like the ones above, except mine has guides to fit some saw bases and router bases so they run along the guide and you don't have to hold them in place as much. mine also has a ruler on both sides. three handle positions for adjustable pressure - can also be used to laminate boards together.

    this is mine
    Edge Clamping Tool Guide E. Emerson Co. C50 50-Inch All-In-One Straight on eBay!

    Menards, Farm and Fleet, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. all sell them. various lengths for 24", 48" or 84". basically let's your circular saw act like a panel saw.



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