Closed Thread
Page 12 of 24 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 352

Reload Thread: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

  1. #166
    NoCoSPL's Avatar
    NoCoSPL is offline A Daily Loud Trunk



    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    North, North
    Posts
    609
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by sub2weeker View Post
    his entire complex would be outside yelling after all their pictures fell off the wall from doing a 30 sec bass race. in his garage with one door open.
    That doesn't answer my question.



    05 Civic 2dr- (2) HDC3A15's, (2) IA 40.1s strapped at 1 ohm, (3) Kinetic 2400's, (1) Kinetic 1400, KnuConceptz wire, 200A EA alt

    TL Scores: Legal sealed 150.7 @ 41 Hz, Outlaw 152.9 in kick @ 41 hz


    My Window Flex Vids www.youtube.com/teamshakinghorizons




  2. #167
    sub-FATHER's Avatar
    sub-FATHER is offline Resurecting this sport

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    denver, CO.
    Posts
    1,592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by NoCoSPL View Post
    That doesn't answer my question.
    yeah we will go to a parking lot somewhere



    Where the Competition begins


    Colorado Usaci SPL & Streetbeat Record holder!
    [IMG]http://www.soundoff.org/season_results/statesplrecords.pdf

  3. #168
    PV Audio's Avatar
    PV Audio is offline The Vision of Sound



    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Indy
    Age
    25
    Posts
    19,655
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyk90 View Post
    What the hell do you think SOUND is? Sound is PRESSURE WAVES. They are one in the same. If one pressure wave is stronger than the others, it will overpower them.

    Since you seem to be so knowledgeable on the topic, please enlighten us as to how your subs playing at 155 dB and your mids playing at 120 dB will add up to with a "real" spl meter. What would the overall score be?

    Go ahead and play pink noise with an RTA going and prepare to be severly disappointed. Odds are you'll start smoking mids and tweeters in the mid 130 dB range.

    I'm completely dumbfounded that you're still arguing this when you clearly have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
    He's saying that the TL is inaccurate because it measures pressure only and not loudness. There is no such thing as a loudness meter because someone who is deaf would not hear anything while they would perceive the same change in acoustic pressure. Loudness is a purely subjective measurement based on the ear's affinity for midrange frequencies. That is why they use weighted meters to get closest to a "true" reading, but that is only used for noise applications and not pure pressure readings which is what you NEED, not want, but NEED when measuring audio low frequency SPL. If you used a highly weighted meter at competitions, you'd score so lowly that people would be running semi's full of subs just to score the same. It's also why dB charts are misleading and aren't usable for us because jet engines and rifle blasts are at higher frequencies which are perceived as louder to the ear anyway. A rifle going off is not creating 170dB of sound pressure, it's creating 170dB of WEIGHTED sound pressure, or perceived sound pressure.




  4. #169
    tommyk90's Avatar
    tommyk90 is offline THE WHOLE THING!!!



    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Chicago Heights, IL
    Age
    30
    Posts
    16,638
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    20
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    He's saying that the TL is inaccurate because it measures pressure only and not loudness. There is no such thing as a loudness meter because someone who is deaf would not hear anything while they would perceive the same change in acoustic pressure. Loudness is a purely subjective measurement based on the ear's affinity for midrange frequencies. That is why they use weighted meters to get closest to a "true" reading, but that is only used for noise applications and not pure pressure readings which is what you NEED, not want, but NEED when measuring audio low frequency SPL. If you used a highly weighted meter at competitions, you'd score so lowly that people would be running semi's full of subs just to score the same. It's also why dB charts are misleading and aren't usable for us because jet engines and rifle blasts are at higher frequencies which are perceived as louder to the ear anyway. A rifle going off is not creating 170dB of sound pressure, it's creating 170dB of WEIGHTED sound pressure, or perceived sound pressure.
    I hate those comparison charts. People really think their stereo is louder than a 747 taking off.

    Like I said, if he wants to measure pressure across the entire frequency range, play some pink noise with an RTA going and watch your mids and tweeters go up in smoke while the meter is only at 135 db.

    I understand what you are saying completely. 130 dB at 5000 hz is MUCH more painful than 150 dB at 40 hz, which is why the higher frequencies are weighted differently.

    Apparently this is too much for him to comprehend.




    Team Kicker (R.I.P.)
    Team Sundown
    Team Maxxsonics
    Team XS Power
    Team DD
    Team Audio Technix
    Team B2 Audio
    Team Mechman
    Team Tantric Sounds

    2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion
    2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, DB1, S2, S3, S4)

    One DD 9510 powered by two Sundown SAZ-2500's
    Kicker KS tweeters, MB Quart 5.25's active on an MB Quart DSC480
    Kicker wiring throughout.



  5. #170
    sub-FATHER's Avatar
    sub-FATHER is offline Resurecting this sport

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    denver, CO.
    Posts
    1,592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    I hope it's comfy in that magical world of yours, because it looks like you're stuck there permanently. You haven't the faintest idea as to what you're talking. Sound pressure, sound intensity and loudness are NOT the same thing, nor are they interchangable and nor do they have any relationship between one another. You're using the three things as though they are the same thing.

    Sound pressure is the dB score that you read on the meter. It measures the SPL level of the car. The SPL level is based on the highest SPL at a given frequency because unless two produced frequencies are close, they will not add together. They only add to make the maximum gain when they are producing the same frequency which is why you do NOT see people using mids and tweeters in competitions along with their subwoofers because they are a complete waste of amplifier power that could be driving larger transducers. This IS how it works, it's not my theory, it is the truth, it's science, it's fundamental to noise control and other fields of engineering acoustics. Reference? The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Alton Everest. I suggest you read it.

    Loudness is what you're talking about and is merely a human perception of sound pressure. Midrange frequencies are interpreted as being louder as the ear is naturally attuned with a bandpass response to pick up the middle frequencies at a higher sensitivity than the lower and higher frequencies. This is a fundamental concept of psychoacoustics. Where did I learn this? The Psychology of Hearing by Brian Moore who is a Phd of psychoacoustics.

    Sound intensity, in case you're wondering, is the intensity of sound at a given area. It is defined as the integral of one period of a waveform of the sound pressure multiplied by the velocity of the air. The terms intensity and pressure are not the same because in reality, they cannot be derived from one another. Saying "intensity of pressure" is a complete misnomer along the same lines as "the volts of the resistance". This is from the Textbook of Environmental Engineering by P. Venugopala Rao.

    I have cited all of my information by professors and doctors of the fields in which they study, and you are citing your own "logic". I wonder who is more accurate?
    people like me, einstien, tesla!!!! people that go against the grain because they believed in faults of logic. funny too. as of just recently E=mc2 has been disproven as well. its amazing how how things that are set in stone change.... and just like that too...
    its good to think, but you say you know! i have said from the beginning that this is my theory. sorry i havnt proven it yet.



    Where the Competition begins


    Colorado Usaci SPL & Streetbeat Record holder!
    [IMG]http://www.soundoff.org/season_results/statesplrecords.pdf

  6. #171
    PV Audio's Avatar
    PV Audio is offline The Vision of Sound



    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Indy
    Age
    25
    Posts
    19,655
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by sub2weeker View Post
    people like me, einstien, tesla!!!! people that go against the grain because they believed in faults of logic. funny too. as of just recently E=mc2 has been disproven as well. its amazing how how things that are set in stone change.... and just like that too...
    its good to think, but you say you know! i have said from the beginning that this is my theory. sorry i havnt proven it yet.
    Comparing yourself to Einstein and Tesla is possibly the greatest case of hubris I've ever seen in my life. You are just wrong and confused, while Einstein and Tesla had theories. You're talking about one thing and using it in the context of something else, nothing more. We tried to tell you that, but you didn't realize it. It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't. Its how you perceive sound, so if you want to say that your 16 mids will make your setup seem LOUDER, then yes. Will it meter higher? Not in the slightest unless your mids are moving more air at the frequencies that your subs are. Just quit digging your hole and admit that you're wrong. I've been doing it for years, and I turned out okay in the end




  7. #172
    PV Audio's Avatar
    PV Audio is offline The Vision of Sound



    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Indy
    Age
    25
    Posts
    19,655
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    And no, E=mc^2 was NOT disproven by anyone. It, as of November 16 2009, has yet to be disproven for 104 years. Stories you might have heard about students in lectures or people theorizing are false. It would be one of the single greatest scientific breakthroughs of all time and everyone would know about it.




  8. #173
    sub-FATHER's Avatar
    sub-FATHER is offline Resurecting this sport

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    denver, CO.
    Posts
    1,592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Although Einstein's name is closely linked with the celebrated relation E=mc2 between mass and energy, a critical examination of the more than half dozen “proofs” of this relation that Einstein produced over a span of forty years reveals that all these proofs suffer from mistakes. Einstein introduced unjustified assumptions, committed fatal errors in logic, or adopted low-speed, restrictive approximations. He never succeeded in producing a valid general proof applicable to a realistic system with arbitrarily large internal speeds. The first such general proof was produced by Max Laue in 1911 (for “closed” systems with a time-independent energy–momentum tensor) and it was generalized by Felix Klein in 1918 (for arbitrary time-dependent “closed” systems).



    Where the Competition begins


    Colorado Usaci SPL & Streetbeat Record holder!
    [IMG]http://www.soundoff.org/season_results/statesplrecords.pdf

  9. #174
    sub-FATHER's Avatar
    sub-FATHER is offline Resurecting this sport

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    denver, CO.
    Posts
    1,592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    E = MC2:

    E [THE ELECTION] ... EQUALS ... MC [MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE] ... SQUARED.

    Obama is a Muslim and a socialist who is hiding both of these facts.


    Anyone who heard Wright's sermons or who has seen BLT's founding philosopher the insane and racist James Cone on Moyer's knows this theology is as Christian and Islam is - ands has more in common with Farrakhan's Nation Of Islam than Christianity.


    Obama and his relationship with Ayers and Khalidi and Wright and Farrakhan and The New Party and Frank Mashall Davis and his mother's politics all reveal who he REALLY is - who he is when nobody was looking -- BEFORE anyone was looking. He is a left-wing RADICAL.

    Don't fall for the campaign BS that Obama is somehow now a liberal Democrat. Obama is to the left of Feignold and Kucinich and Saunders and Maxine Waters and Barney Frank.
    OBAMA IS A MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE TWICE OVER. SQUARED.
    A socialist and a Muslim. A BAATHIST FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
    THE AMERICAN NASSER.

    THE AMERICAN SADDAM HUSSEIN.
    YES: BENEATH ALL THE CAMPAIGN BULLSHIT AND LIES, OBAMA IS REALLY PROMOTER OF SOCIALISM AND ISLAM AND IS THEREFORE REALLY A BAATHIST.
    VOTE ACCORDINGLY.



    Where the Competition begins


    Colorado Usaci SPL & Streetbeat Record holder!
    [IMG]http://www.soundoff.org/season_results/statesplrecords.pdf

  10. #175
    sub-FATHER's Avatar
    sub-FATHER is offline Resurecting this sport

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    denver, CO.
    Posts
    1,592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    Comparing yourself to Einstein and Tesla is possibly the greatest case of hubris I've ever seen in my life. You are just wrong and confused, while Einstein and Tesla had theories. You're talking about one thing and using it in the context of something else, nothing more. We tried to tell you that, but you didn't realize it. It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't. Its how you perceive sound, so if you want to say that your 16 mids will make your setup seem LOUDER, then yes. Will it meter higher? Not in the slightest unless your mids are moving more air at the frequencies that your subs are. Just quit digging your hole and admit that you're wrong. I've been doing it for years, and I turned out okay in the end
    im digging for CHINA



    Where the Competition begins


    Colorado Usaci SPL & Streetbeat Record holder!
    [IMG]http://www.soundoff.org/season_results/statesplrecords.pdf

  11. #176
    TnT_Sounds's Avatar
    TnT_Sounds is offline profiling gets **** done!



    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    Comparing yourself to Einstein and Tesla is possibly the greatest case of hubris I've ever seen in my life. You are just wrong and confused, while Einstein and Tesla had theories. You're talking about one thing and using it in the context of something else, nothing more. We tried to tell you that, but you didn't realize it. It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't. Its how you perceive sound, so if you want to say that your 16 mids will make your setup seem LOUDER, then yes. Will it meter higher? Not in the slightest unless your mids are moving more air at the frequencies that your subs are. Just quit digging your hole and admit that you're wrong. I've been doing it for years, and I turned out okay in the end
    I think I will sig that



    3 8's

    39.9 consistently

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.

  12. #177
    TnT_Sounds's Avatar
    TnT_Sounds is offline profiling gets **** done!



    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by sub2weeker View Post
    Although Einstein's name is closely linked with the celebrated relation E=mc2 between mass and energy, a critical examination of the more than half dozen “proofs” of this relation that Einstein produced over a span of forty years reveals that all these proofs suffer from mistakes. Einstein introduced unjustified assumptions, committed fatal errors in logic, or adopted low-speed, restrictive approximations. He never succeeded in producing a valid general proof applicable to a realistic system with arbitrarily large internal speeds.

    The first such general proof was produced by Max Laue in 1911 (for “closed” systems with a time-independent energy–momentum tensor) and it was generalized by Felix Klein in 1918 (for arbitrary time-dependent “closed” systems).
    Right there is your proof. Although AE wasn't the one to provide it, it was still proven according to Max Laue



    3 8's

    39.9 consistently

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.

  13. #178
    TnT_Sounds's Avatar
    TnT_Sounds is offline profiling gets **** done!



    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by sub2weeker View Post
    E = MC2:

    E [THE ELECTION] ... EQUALS ... MC [MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE] ... SQUARED.

    Obama is a Muslim and a socialist who is hiding both of these facts.


    Anyone who heard Wright's sermons or who has seen BLT's founding philosopher the insane and racist James Cone on Moyer's knows this theology is as Christian and Islam is - ands has more in common with Farrakhan's Nation Of Islam than Christianity.


    Obama and his relationship with Ayers and Khalidi and Wright and Farrakhan and The New Party and Frank Mashall Davis and his mother's politics all reveal who he REALLY is - who he is when nobody was looking -- BEFORE anyone was looking. He is a left-wing RADICAL.

    Don't fall for the campaign BS that Obama is somehow now a liberal Democrat. Obama is to the left of Feignold and Kucinich and Saunders and Maxine Waters and Barney Frank.
    OBAMA IS A MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE TWICE OVER. SQUARED.
    A socialist and a Muslim. A BAATHIST FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
    THE AMERICAN NASSER.


    THE AMERICAN SADDAM HUSSEIN.
    YES: BENEATH ALL THE CAMPAIGN BULLSHIT AND LIES, OBAMA IS REALLY PROMOTER OF SOCIALISM AND ISLAM AND IS THEREFORE REALLY A BAATHIST.
    VOTE ACCORDINGLY.
    I agree with the bold statements



    3 8's

    39.9 consistently

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,733
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    God, this fuck is worse than McIntosh. In the way that he doesn't back up his stupid claims and has no idea what he's talking about. Better yet he proves himself wrong. Only comparison is that he argues like he knows he's right.

    Who do I need to contact to pay? :greed:

    Pardon my rather unprofessional like attitude, but this is just too much.

    PS@PV: Waves of different frequencies do add, only at the point at which they do line up. Play with just something like Fruity Loops with a sine wave generator and you'll see that it will equal 2A, but not for long enough or often enough to matter or effect the measurement, is what you're saying. Also, when adding two different level sounds, the one of the lower level would have to follow the logarithmic operation. Ie 3dB = 2x as loud, 6dB is 4x as loud, 9dB is 8x as loud, so on and so forth. So essentially lower volume waves would not effect it as much either way. Mathematically, adding sound pressure would be given by 10log(10^(L1/10)+10^(L2/10)+10^(Ln/10)). Ln is measured in Pa.
    Last edited by MakeshiftAudio; 11-16-2009 at 05:56 PM.




  15. #180
    TnT_Sounds's Avatar
    TnT_Sounds is offline profiling gets **** done!



    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: 4 18s in a wall, 94 astro

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeshiftAudio View Post
    God, this fuck is worse than McIntosh. In the way that he doesn't back up his stupid claims and has no idea what he's talking about. Better yet he proves himself wrong. Only comparison is that he argues like he knows he's right.

    Who do I need to contact to pay? :greed:
    I personaly think McIntosh was worse

    This guy just seems to be shootin up Ultracet



    3 8's

    39.9 consistently

    Quote Originally Posted by PV Audio View Post
    It will never be proved that loudness is somehow related to SPL because it isn't.

    Loudness, a subjective measure, is often confused with objective measures of sound pressure such as decibels or sound intensity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Kulicki
    Building a stereo just to measure it's sound pressure level is like building a microwave oven for no reason other than to measure it's electromagnetic radiation emissions.

Closed Thread
Page 12 of 24 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
1e2 Forum