datboiroy: AWESOME TRANSHIPPER! UNAUTHORIZED INTERNET SALES!

[shaneb]

It's a very simple equation, really.

Excellent company->
excellent products->
poor Dealer selection->
trans-shipping->
decreased quantity of honest, legit dealers->
decreased business for excellent company->
company must maintain livable profit margin->
company has a choice to lower build quality on products->
you now receive 'not as they used to be' products.

ID is one of a few companies doing things right (cutting trans-shipping, monitoring internet sales) and that's why they spit out top quality products that you all (end-user) enjoy. Arc as well. Memphis. Boston. Morel. DD. Elettromedia.--just a few examples.

MTX actually contracts out their net enforcing cause of stuff like this.

[Image Dynamics]

I'll give you the integrity part, but how is it hurting the industry? Why don't manufacturers like online sales?


I'm not trying to set guns ablaze or start an efight or anything, I just really don't understand

The internet fuels what we call "The race to Zero". If something can be purchased on line for less than in stores, the "in-store" price must be lowered to keep the sale. This is why consumers do not expect to pay much for most items... computers, ANY electronics. You name it. if it can be found on the internet then a retailer is going out of business.

So now we have something even more interesting going on. There was a report in the Wall Street Journal last week stating that numerous internet based sales companies are going out of business due to rising costs of shipping and smaller margins. They are victims of their own disease!

[s Beatz]

ID is in ontario? Wow i live right by ontario mills haha any deals for local people lol

[00poop6x]

The internet fuels what we call "The race to Zero". If something can be purchased on line for less than in stores, the "in-store" price must be lowered to keep the sale. This is why consumers do not expect to pay much for most items... computers, ANY electronics. You name it. if it can be found on the internet then a retailer is going out of business.

So now we have something even more interesting going on. There was a report in the Wall Street Journal last week stating that numerous internet based sales companies are going out of business due to rising costs of shipping and smaller margins. They are victims of their own disease!

That means those internet-based companies have to close up their apartment warehouse/store. Where's the owner going to live now??

[Image Dynamics]

It's a very simple equation, really.

Excellent company->
excellent products->
poor Dealer selection->
trans-shipping->
decreased quantity of honest, legit dealers->
decreased business for excellent company->
company must maintain livable profit margin->
company has a choice to lower build quality on products->
you now receive 'not as they used to be' products.

ID is one of a few companies doing things right (cutting trans-shipping, monitoring internet sales) and that's why they spit out top quality products that you all (end-user) enjoy. Arc as well. Memphis. Boston. Morel. DD. Elettromedia.--just a few examples.

I would rather sell less QUALITY product with more margin than sell more CRAP product with less margin, less quality and less performance

[Image Dynamics]

ID is in ontario? Wow i live right by ontario mills haha any deals for local people lol

Go visit Frank @ Auto Image Plus on Holt and Mountain.

[s Beatz]

Thats funny, you herd of Fantastic Sound?

[6spdcoupe]

I'll give you the integrity part, but how is it hurting the industry? Why don't manufacturers like online sales?


I'm not trying to set guns ablaze or start an efight or anything, I just really don't understand

My replies when I mentioned Crutchfield to someone else and they claimed it is a ripoff and woofersetc is a better place because it is cheaper ..


Crutchfield is Authorized, has Excellent customer service, offers full warranty, all accessories are usually included. They charge (usually, but sometimes lower) the price that the manufacturer requires and theyre a ripoff?

Am I crutchfield customer? NO. Am I a dealer for 12V? YES. Does crutchfield sometimes even hurt my sales? Absolutely. When I can only make $10 on a $500 ticket because crutchfield sold it : At sale prices, included all installation hardware and free shipping it cuts me and most other retailers down. So am I a fan? No really. Would I still endorse them though? Yes actually I would.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HOWEVER, lets roll with the claim of 'over priced' ....

How do you think R&D is performed? Is this a free service? Absolutely not. Just to get an amp design on paper can cost an easy $10k, then to production it goes .. testing samples, revisions, cost of materials, shipping, literature, packaging, etc ...ALL cost money.

So with your theories here Brick and Mortar retailers should just plain not exist, correct? Let's say dealer cost for a said item is $500, retail is $750 and they sell it for $750. Good profit? That depends on how much time the retailer spent with you. Now picture this .. YOU are a retailer and sell everything at or right about at your cost ... how many months can you pay your building lease? Electricity? Insurance? Employees? Etc .. You would not last more than a month or two unless your in the habit of just tossing money away for no apparent reason.

In regards to your example of switching defective for a new one at the retailer ..

A: The retailer would not get credit and would be screwed since JL would trace the serial number. Retailer is now at a loss and was an innocent bystander. Did you ever notice most retailers do not offer cash back returns? Why? Because too many people tried this crap in the past. Why should the retailer be hurt because you wanted a replacement?

B: It is just plain sh!tty to do such a thing and is borderline illegal, if nothing else it is completely bad morals and tactics.

I am all for saving money on things and I try my best to extend discounts when I can. Although at the end of the day I still have bills to pay and a family to feed. Shopping in the manner that you do would leave me (and many other business owners) hungry and homeless.

Am I defending ALL retailers? Absolutely not, just in general. There are tons out there that have no work ethic, will mark prices above SRP and give you the 'take it or leave it' speech. Many of them are quite good though. With a retailer you are paying for ..experience, presentation, convenience and of course support/warranty. Many products nowadays can be advance exchanged - over the counter. No downtime for you at all. How many e-tailers do that?

Do you realize how these online sites get alot of their products?

Theft is a major one. This hurts not only the manufacturer and the retailer, but the economy as well.

Refurbed .. yes refurbished and sold as new. Is this ok? You may think so, but if I am paying for a new product, I want a new product.

Counterfeit .. This is getting larger and larger by the day. Sub par parts, products, development and then yes you are getting your (cheap) monies worth.

I do not think Crutchfield advertises on the forums .. Why? Who knows. Might simply be because they do not want to pay to advertise here.

And finally ... What if the popular etailer that your buying from suddenly shuts down? They already have your money, but didnt ship your product. Your screwed. Wont happen? Guess again. Happened several times over the years and I am sure will happen more. "Woofers is so big, it'll never happen" Anyone recall the last place that was down in FL that had a similar reputation and screwed literally hundreds of people? Thezeb.com

[PsychoTheRapist]

I would rather sell less QUALITY product with more margin than sell more CRAP product with less margin, less quality and less performance

Honestly, I never even heard of ID until I saw a few items on ebay a few years back. Are there even any dealers in MI?

[shaneb]

I would rather sell less QUALITY product with more margin than sell more CRAP product with less margin, less quality and less performance

I would rather you do that too!

[shaneb]

Honestly, I never even heard of ID until I saw a few items on ebay a few years back. Are there even any dealers in MI?

www.imagedynamicsusa.com dealer locator on there, and www.woofersetc.com i ID dealer if there isn't.

[Phers1er]

Wow, I guess My boy Roy is "layin low" like he told me he was gonna do.

Sh*t!! I am really glad I got the amps a purchased from him before he decided to "lay low"(FYI These were used and a warranty was not offered).
He did pm me about some hertz drivers that I wanted for an active 3-way set up and offered a warranty.

Heres the quote from the PM

hey i can get you a Hertz Hi Energy 3-way component setup active

the 8"midbass is 249, midrange is 149 and tweeter is 149 each, if you do all 3, i can get it done for you for 499 shipped with warranty brand new.

[Horsemanwill]

My replies when I mentioned Crutchfield to someone else and they claimed it is a ripoff and woofersetc is a better place because it is cheaper ..


Crutchfield is Authorized, has Excellent customer service, offers full warranty, all accessories are usually included. They charge (usually, but sometimes lower) the price that the manufacturer requires and theyre a ripoff?

Am I crutchfield customer? NO. Am I a dealer for 12V? YES. Does crutchfield sometimes even hurt my sales? Absolutely. When I can only make $10 on a $500 ticket because crutchfield sold it : At sale prices, included all installation hardware and free shipping it cuts me and most other retailers down. So am I a fan? No really. Would I still endorse them though? Yes actually I would.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HOWEVER, lets roll with the claim of 'over priced' ....

How do you think R&D is performed? Is this a free service? Absolutely not. Just to get an amp design on paper can cost an easy $10k, then to production it goes .. testing samples, revisions, cost of materials, shipping, literature, packaging, etc ...ALL cost money.

So with your theories here Brick and Mortar retailers should just plain not exist, correct? Let's say dealer cost for a said item is $500, retail is $750 and they sell it for $750. Good profit? That depends on how much time the retailer spent with you. Now picture this .. YOU are a retailer and sell everything at or right about at your cost ... how many months can you pay your building lease? Electricity? Insurance? Employees? Etc .. You would not last more than a month or two unless your in the habit of just tossing money away for no apparent reason.

In regards to your example of switching defective for a new one at the retailer ..

A: The retailer would not get credit and would be screwed since JL would trace the serial number. Retailer is now at a loss and was an innocent bystander. Did you ever notice most retailers do not offer cash back returns? Why? Because too many people tried this crap in the past. Why should the retailer be hurt because you wanted a replacement?

B: It is just plain sh!tty to do such a thing and is borderline illegal, if nothing else it is completely bad morals and tactics.

I am all for saving money on things and I try my best to extend discounts when I can. Although at the end of the day I still have bills to pay and a family to feed. Shopping in the manner that you do would leave me (and many other business owners) hungry and homeless.

Am I defending ALL retailers? Absolutely not, just in general. There are tons out there that have no work ethic, will mark prices above SRP and give you the 'take it or leave it' speech. Many of them are quite good though. With a retailer you are paying for ..experience, presentation, convenience and of course support/warranty. Many products nowadays can be advance exchanged - over the counter. No downtime for you at all. How many e-tailers do that?

Do you realize how these online sites get alot of their products?

Theft is a major one. This hurts not only the manufacturer and the retailer, but the economy as well.

Refurbed .. yes refurbished and sold as new. Is this ok? You may think so, but if I am paying for a new product, I want a new product.

Counterfeit .. This is getting larger and larger by the day. Sub par parts, products, development and then yes you are getting your (cheap) monies worth.

I do not think Crutchfield advertises on the forums .. Why? Who knows. Might simply be because they do not want to pay to advertise here.

And finally ... What if the popular etailer that your buying from suddenly shuts down? They already have your money, but didnt ship your product. Your screwed. Wont happen? Guess again. Happened several times over the years and I am sure will happen more. "Woofers is so big, it'll never happen" Anyone recall the last place that was down in FL that had a similar reputation and screwed literally hundreds of people? Thezeb.com

myself and another shop owner has been through this arguement here at this thread
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showth...=360815&page=2

[PsychoTheRapist]

www.imagedynamicsusa.com dealer locator on there, and www.woofersetc.com i ID dealer if there isn't.

I'm lazy, plus I want to see if this guy knows his shit..

[Image Dynamics]

Honestly, I never even heard of ID until I saw a few items on ebay a few years back. Are there even any dealers in MI?

I currently do not have a dealer in Michigan. This is why I use Woofers Etc. We have a working relationship with Woofers Etc and they have maintained a good pricing structure for ID products.