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squeak9798
04-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Here is an excellent and well written article on how to properly deaden and treat your door for components.

Text and photos by npdang (aka "cheapboy" on some forums):



Here's a list of some easy and affordable door treatments that I've found to greatly improve the clarity, as well as the total bass output and low end extension of your mid/bass. If you're using high quality drivers in the doors, proper treatment and install is a must.

First thing's first. Make sure to sound deaden your door. This will make the largest difference in reducing annoying rattles. Make sure to do both the inner panel and the outer panel. Use a good 2 or 3 layers. A heat gun or even a hair dryer can be used to soften the deadener up for making it more moldable and easier to apply. Find a good asphalt based mat that is cheap, easy to work with, sticks well under room temperature, and doesn't fall off in extreme heat. I use and recommend Raamat which you can find here: http://www.raamaudio.com/
60 sqft of deadener should be more than enough for 2 doors.

As for liquid sound deadeners, I don't use them for a simple reason. They take forever to apply! You would need to clean your door, then apply a single coat. Allow it to dry, then apply another coat. With thick coats and bad weather, it can sometimes take up to a full day to dry between layers. I'd save the liquid deadener for hard to reach places, or for areas where mat doesn't stick easily such as the roof of the cabin or trunk. In my experience, the effectiveness is about the same as a decently thick asphalt based deadener.

Also, you can sometimes reduce annoying door mechanism rattles by applying a bit of thick grease to the part.

The next thing I like to do is seal up any large holes in the door panel. Doing this very noticeably increases the bass output. I like to use plexiglass since it's somewhat cheap and weatherproof... and also looks nice. It's also much sturdier than trying to stretch sound deadener over a large hole. Cut out a piece that fits your hole, use a bit of silicon, liquid nails, or other thick adhesive/sealant and then slide it in. These panels can be easily removed with a screwdriver worked into the edges if maintenance on the door is needed.

Next, I glue a large sheet of egg carton foam behind the speaker location. These do hold water, so you may want to treat it to avoid mold growth. It won't rust your door however, since the foam sits on top of the sound deadener. If you live in a more humid climate, you could use a "Deflex" pad which is sold here: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=268-242

You should notice a slight improvement to your midrange. For me, the egg carton foam was a bit more effective than the Deflex pad.

Last but not least, buy ~2lbs of non-hardening modelling clay and a small sheet of 3/4" or 1/2" mdf. Cut a ring or baffle for your speaker to sit on. Place about 5mm tall height of clay on both sides of the ring. Now mount the speaker to one side of the ring, and the ring to your door. Decoupling the speaker from the actual door itself will further reduce vibrations, and clean up your midrange and bass. As an added touch, I like to add a bit more clay around the baffle in order to add weight to the area and further dampen any vibrations.

3/4" mdf baffle with non-hardening modelling clay atop.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door1.jpg


Seas Excel w18 with non-hardening modelling clay around the baffle.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door2.jpg
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door3.jpg


Notice the plexiglass + liquid nails which was used to cover the hole in the door panel. Also, notice the 3 layers of deadener on the outside door panel through the glass.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door4.jpg


Sheet of egg carton foam behind the speaker.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door5.jpg
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door8.jpg


Deflex pad behind the speaker.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/door7.jpg


Shot of my trunk lid with asphalt based sound deadener applied.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/trunk2.jpg


Shot of my trunk with about a 4mm layer of liquid deadener applied.

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/trunk1.jpg

I copy-n-pasted it here since I figured most people would be too lazy to follow a link.

Full thread can be found here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27

Enjoy :)

DrtySthV6SE
04-21-2005, 01:36 PM
:thumbsup: that looks awesome

crea78
04-21-2005, 01:38 PM
Nice find!! I'm hoping to sound deaden my car sometime this summer. I can't wait!

XtrmAudioCncpts
04-21-2005, 01:44 PM
i bet that thing is pretty quiet

nosaj070
04-21-2005, 01:50 PM
Is this stickied? If not it deserves it. That clay is an awesome idea, and may have to give that a shot.

cjj2d
04-21-2005, 02:21 PM
I definatly need to finish up my deadening project I started. Got the trunk lid done and the inside of my doors. now to do the skin of the door panel.

swaptrex
04-21-2005, 06:49 PM
very informative! :)

deadboi77
04-21-2005, 10:13 PM
Wow,thats just sweet,I`m going to have to do that to my doors with the egg carton stuff.

Insomniac119
04-21-2005, 10:52 PM
Thank you very much. I'm very close to poping my door panel off, deadening it, and fiberglassing some door pods.

Any one here ever tryed the egg carton foam idea, or covered the holes in the door panel?

squeak9798
04-21-2005, 11:44 PM
Any one here ever tryed the egg carton foam idea,

It's sound absorbant material, designed to deflect the rearwave of the speaker to reduce standing waves and cone breakup. That, or deflex pads, are supposed to make a pretty noticeable difference. While I haven't installed any yet, I've read enough about them from IASCA world champions to trust their opinion that they do infact work :) Plus, for the $20 or whatever, you're not out much if it doesn't ;)


or covered the holes in the door panel?

If you are building sealed doorpods, I wouldn't worry so much about this. It may still help reduce road noise some though. However, if the back of the pod is going to be open into the door (for IB), then covering the holes in the panel is a MUST.

Schuey2002
04-28-2005, 07:29 PM
>>"These do hold water, so you may want to treat it to avoid mold growth."<<

I just put some in my doors. What should I have treated the foam with?? :emb:

LightningStryk7
04-28-2005, 11:12 PM
If making custom kick panels would you need to put deadener inside the kick? or one of those deflex pads? or would that not help at all?

squeak9798
04-28-2005, 11:34 PM
>>"These do hold water, so you may want to treat it to avoid mold growth."<<

I just put some in my doors. What should I have treated the foam with?? :emb:


I'd check them after a heavy rain and see how bad it is. If you have having major water retention in them, I'd take it out and replace it with weather-resisent foam or use the Deflex pads instead.

squeak9798
04-28-2005, 11:35 PM
If making custom kick panels would you need to put deadener inside the kick? or one of those deflex pads? or would that not help at all?


Yes, you should use *something* to reduce resonances. Molding clay in the kickpanel enclosure works very well. Deflex pads may help as well; though, as with anything, results may vary :)

Schuey2002
04-29-2005, 03:36 AM
Thanks, Squeak.

Uhmm.. is there really any difference between using eggcrate foam and a deflex pad? For example, I have the entire space behind the 6.5" in the door filled with that eggcrate stuff. Won't it do a better job of blocking sound transmission through the outer skin of the door, or is it really just there to break up the backwave of the speaker??

M-T minds are curious..

squeak9798
05-01-2005, 07:19 PM
Thanks, Squeak.

Uhmm.. is there really any difference between using eggcrate foam and a deflex pad? For example, I have the entire space behind the 6.5" in the door filled with that eggcrate stuff. Won't it do a better job of blocking sound transmission through the outer skin of the door, or is it really just there to break up the backwave of the speaker??


The material is there more to break up the rearwaves from reflecting back against the speaker, causing distortion. That's why the deflex pads aren't very thick at all, and why they have those ridges all the way around them.....to deflect the rearwave away from reflecting back against the speaker.

pooper
05-12-2005, 07:50 PM
how d u get the egg thing in the door?my car has only a 5.25 hole in the door and i want to use one of the bigg egg cartons.how do i get it in there?

squeak9798
05-12-2005, 08:21 PM
You'll either have to try squishing it up and shoving it back there, or cutting it into smaller pieces to fit through the hole(s)

pooper
05-13-2005, 04:55 PM
thanks man ima try it this weekend! also would a little caulk put were the speaker bolts to the door get rid of a few rattles?

squeak9798
05-13-2005, 06:41 PM
It's only silicone.....if it doesn't work like you wanted, scrape it back off ;)

2kchevy06civic
05-13-2005, 06:51 PM
this needs to be sticked, good find here.

squeak9798
05-13-2005, 09:59 PM
this needs to be sticked,

LOL...it already is ;)

AllStar1500bd
05-23-2005, 05:32 PM
Awesome post! Never thought of the egg-crate idea.

Raven
05-30-2005, 10:52 AM
I'm going to glue a small bit of 1/2" eggcrate to my car today. Wish me luck. I'll see if I can hear any good results.

JAZN
05-30-2005, 05:23 PM
i did the clay thing and saw a big difference. good stuff.
have my deflex pads on the way from PE too :)

supa_c
05-31-2005, 10:31 PM
Im getting the clay ans i have some egg carton foam that i'll be using.
Great article, but i think using MDF in the door would be cheaper for most of us instead of plexi

Raven
06-02-2005, 08:04 PM
I had 1/2 inch egg foam installed in the doors. The difference was noticable, but not miraculous or anything. Definitely worth the effort to swipe excess foam from work and 20 minutes of panel pulling and hot glue, though.

supa_c
06-03-2005, 02:20 AM
I did this to my friends car
Wal mart had clay for $.97 a pack.
Came in 4 collours and smelled good :D
P.S
I did notice a slight difference, midbass seems to be much tighter and get a bit lower.
Totally worth it IMO for $3.00

Johnny Drama
06-03-2005, 12:23 PM
Well, I am going to try this out tonight. I will let you guys know what I find on saturday ;)

twoohfour
06-06-2005, 01:13 AM
i'm working on this right now as I write this...


and let me tell you....

plexiglass is a fkin B1TCH to cut!!!!

JAZN
06-06-2005, 04:57 AM
is deadening the outer skin of your door necessary? im gonna use a deflex pad but im just wondering if i should deaden the entire outer skin too. the inner frame is already deadened.

twoohfour
06-06-2005, 05:03 AM
is deadening the outer skin of your door necessary? im gonna use a deflex pad but im just wondering if i should deaden the entire outer skin too. the inner frame is already deadened.

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

so many vibrations come from the outer skin of your door because it
a) deflects vibrations from your speakers all over the place causing distortion
b) is a relatively thin piece of metal and vibrates like mad. feel your door from the outside when you have your speakers up high, they hum and buzz like a thousand bees.
c) everyone says your supposed to, the above reasons are just thinking logically/realistically

supa_c
06-06-2005, 08:18 PM
My friends door panels flex nicely from his sub.

MetalMaxima
06-08-2005, 07:45 AM
Since we're on the subject, here is a pic of the speaker OEM speaker rings on my car...would anyone recommend using the MDF rings in addition to the method listed here?

http://www.moodym.com/maxima/audio/images/stock-spkr-ring.jpg

supa_c
06-08-2005, 12:17 PM
Plastic resonates quite nicely if not deadned.
What i normally do is get rid of the stock rings ( most aftermarket speakers dont fit them) and make some custom MDF ones.

MetalMaxima
06-08-2005, 12:39 PM
Plastic resonates quite nicely if not deadned.
What i normally do is get rod f the stock rings ( most aftermarket speakers dont fit them) and make some custom MDF ones.

Ok, looks like I'll be doing some ring cutting. Thanks! :veryhapp:

MetalMaxima
06-08-2005, 12:40 PM
i'm working on this right now as I write this...


and let me tell you....

plexiglass is a fkin B1TCH to cut!!!!

Use a carbide cutting wheel with a rotary tool such as a Dremel. Worked wonders for me.

supa_c
06-08-2005, 01:01 PM
wow, my spelling ****** in that post

Johnny Drama
06-08-2005, 01:03 PM
Well, I am going to try this out tonight. I will let you guys know what I find on saturday ;)


Update.

Tried the egg crate out. Works very well, mid range frequencys dont sound so "under water" I spent $1.50 on it too. Took about 30 min to install with silicone. Added more deadener to my doors. The clay worked pretty good at sealing the little inperfections I had leftover after the fist two rounds of deadeneing. Tried the plexi idea with a sheet of balsa wood I had lying around, but my doors are too large and the door skin wouldnt allow me to install it. :(

All in all tis a great tutorial.

Nightskye
06-09-2005, 10:27 AM
I highly recommend deadening the inside of the outer door skin, it made a huge difference with mine. But I disagree with not using liquid deadener. It may take longer, yes, but with a brush you can reach areas that you can't with a mat.

JAZN
06-09-2005, 11:42 AM
Update.

Tried the egg crate out. Works very well, mid range frequencys dont sound so "under water" I spent $1.50 on it too. Took about 30 min to install with silicone. Added more deadener to my doors. The clay worked pretty good at sealing the little inperfections I had leftover after the fist two rounds of deadeneing. Tried the plexi idea with a sheet of balsa wood I had lying around, but my doors are too large and the door skin wouldnt allow me to install it. :(

All in all tis a great tutorial.
bah i paid 30 bucks for my deflex pads, then again i do see water inside my door on rainy days. nice to see more positive comments on this stuff working, i have my liquid deadener on the way for my outer skin now.

JAZN
06-13-2005, 12:55 AM
i wanna cover up the holes with mdf. good idea? if so, is 1/2" thick enough?

squeak9798
06-13-2005, 01:01 AM
i wanna cover up the holes with mdf. good idea?

Should work


if so, is 1/2" thick enough?

Don't see why not

96pfinderSE
06-13-2005, 01:27 AM
to start off would it be affective if i just cover the outside of the door panel like this http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/163000-163999/163317_14.jpg cause i only have 24 sq ft (2 dynamat extreme dookits) will that still be affective?

supa_c
06-13-2005, 01:30 AM
You should notice the difference

Justintoxicated
06-20-2005, 04:50 PM
Hmm I just matted over the open spaces in my door to seal them up, I didn't want to spend the time cutting anything out and I had ALOT of unique shapped spaces in my doors. so I jsut stuck a large piece of RAAMAT over them, Bad Idea?

supa_c
06-20-2005, 08:49 PM
Not a bad idea but its not as stiff as a piece of MDF or plexi would be

JAZN
06-20-2005, 08:54 PM
heres my gosh diddly darn door
http://img29.echo.cx/img29/5339/385cq.jpg
each door has 3 layers of spectrum (half gallon) mainly on the outer skin, eDead v.1se on the inner skin, deflex pads, plexi covering that one hole, and clay for the mid.

JAZN
06-20-2005, 08:55 PM
Not a bad idea but its not as stiff as a piece of MDF or plexi would be
x2. if it's a big hole like the one i have, i would put mdf/plexi. i left the small holes covered with mat.

elinett
06-21-2005, 02:34 AM
heres my gosh diddly darn door
http://img29.echo.cx/img29/5339/385cq.jpg
each door has 3 layers of spectrum (half gallon) mainly on the outer skin, eDead v.1se on the inner skin, deflex pads, plexi covering that one hole, and clay for the mid.
hey those are the pg xenons right? how you like em? where's your tweet mounted. sorry this is off topic, i am in the process of insalling those too. if you guys had limited cash, what areas of your car would you sound deaden first, and with what and how much of it? thanks

supa_c
06-21-2005, 02:37 AM
ID 6.5 mids
Deaden the doors and the trunk lid

chibahawk
07-14-2005, 01:22 PM
hey where do you find the clay at?

supa_c
07-14-2005, 09:13 PM
Walmart, its where the markers are.
I bet my friends clay has all come off in this heat. I cant wait to see the puddle of clay on teh door sill

TeenWolf
07-19-2005, 06:06 AM
The clay looks good, but how long will it last? Looks like it would fall off in no time.

JAZN
07-19-2005, 03:07 PM
The clay looks good, but how long will it last? Looks like it would fall off in no time.
depends on the clay and the climate. i got mine at a arts/crafts store, was kinda expensive, but it doesnt melt in hot weather.

JAZN
07-19-2005, 03:08 PM
if i'm using sealed doorpods, should i just use weatherstripping instead of clay?

supa_c
07-19-2005, 10:15 PM
you dont need clay at all
Just make shure that the extremis' are sealed.
Cheap wal mart clay doesnt last in the cali heat.
It literally pooled out of my friends door onto his sill.
Not like it cost me a whole lot, $.97 a pack

impalafan95
07-19-2005, 10:37 PM
Is it necesary to deaden the inside of the outer skin. I deadened the actual door under the skin today, and it was a ***** to do with second skin sludge it took like 3 hours to do both. I have no idea how I would be able to do the inside of the outer skin, how would I see what I covered? And my panel has lots of holes in it, and they aren't just holes, its hard to explain, ill try to get pics tomorrow, but any tips for me?

evan

JAZN
07-20-2005, 01:36 AM
Is it necesary to deaden the inside of the outer skin. I deadened the actual door under the skin today, and it was a ***** to do with second skin sludge it took like 3 hours to do both. I have no idea how I would be able to do the inside of the outer skin, how would I see what I covered? And my panel has lots of holes in it, and they aren't just holes, its hard to explain, ill try to get pics tomorrow, but any tips for me?

evan
yea u wanna get the outer skin, very important. u can tell where u've been by the color of the sludge, it was easy to tell with spectrum for me. if the holes are big, cover them with mdf/plexiglass and if it's not too big mat should be fine.

impalafan95
07-20-2005, 03:03 AM
yea u wanna get the outer skin, very important. u can tell where u've been by the color of the sludge, it was easy to tell with spectrum for me. if the holes are big, cover them with mdf/plexiglass and if it's not too big mat should be fine.
Yea I am definately getting the outside of the outside skin, but I meant the inside of it. I got the inner "skin" i guess you would call it really good. Its hard to explain how the holes are, i'll take a pic tomorrow and post it, my doors holes are nothing like the ones on the original post. I guess i'll have to buy mat to cover some of them and put mdf on the normal holes. I hate to have to buy more deadening after buying 5 gallons of sludge, but oh well, as much as i'll have into this system ill have to.

Acidburn
07-20-2005, 03:09 AM
this is what my doors looked like after deadening:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4454/edeadrightdoorsmall6qz.jpg

i have deadening on the inside of the outer skin, the inside of the inner piece, and the outside of the inner piece

JAZN
07-20-2005, 03:11 AM
Yea I am definately getting the outside of the outside skin, but I meant the inside of it. I got the inner "skin" i guess you would call it really good. Its hard to explain how the holes are, i'll take a pic tomorrow and post it, my doors holes are nothing like the ones on the original post. I guess i'll have to buy mat to cover some of them and put mdf on the normal holes. I hate to have to buy more deadening after buying 5 gallons of sludge, but oh well, as much as i'll have into this system ill have to.
i think we're confusing outside and inside terms. basically, cover everything except the exterior of the door lol.

impalafan95
07-20-2005, 03:45 AM
this is what my doors looked like after deadening:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4454/edeadrightdoorsmall6qz.jpg

i have deadening on the inside of the outer skin, the inside of the inner piece, and the outside of the inner piece
how did you get the inside of the outer skin? I guess mat would be easier than liquid in this situation since I cant see what the hell im doing to that part and would make a bigass mess with the sludge, so i guess ill get a little bit of mat to cover the inside of it. How many layers did you do and how much of a difference did it make? The doors are a real ***** to deaden, the rest of the car is no problem, although i'm only doing the cabin since im walling it off, as big as the trunk is it would be a ***** to do too, lol.

Acidburn
07-20-2005, 03:50 AM
how did you get the inside of the outer skin? I guess mat would be easier than liquid in this situation since I cant see what the hell im doing to that part and would make a bigass mess with the sludge, so i guess ill get a little bit of mat to cover the inside of it. How many layers did you do and how much of a difference did it make?

there's enough holes that you can just reach through and stick it on, the holes are covered with deadening in that pic
there's one layer on every surface, about 35 sq feet for both front doors
sounds much better afterwards

impalafan95
07-20-2005, 03:56 AM
there's enough holes that you can just reach through and stick it on, the holes are covered with deadening in that pic
there's one layer on every surface, about 35 sq feet for both front doors
sounds much better afterwards
I guess I will get some fatmat extreme or something cheap to do the inside of the outer skin with, and cover the smaller holes with, and mdf the rest, and use sludge on most of the outerskin. These doors are a real pain in the ***. At least I won't have to do the rears.

Acidburn
07-20-2005, 04:28 AM
I guess I will get some fatmat extreme or something cheap to do the inside of the outer skin with, and cover the smaller holes with, and mdf the rest, and use sludge on most of the outerskin. These doors are a real pain in the ***. At least I won't have to do the rears.
ya, i dont want to take them off again, they're so flimsy
i kind of want to do the rear to help out with road noise, but i dont want to screw up the panels

impalafan95
07-20-2005, 10:17 AM
ya, i dont want to take them off again, they're so flimsy
i kind of want to do the rear to help out with road noise, but i dont want to screw up the panels
I doubt I will hear any road noise from the rear doors with a wall and 2 mt 18s :D

Acidburn
07-20-2005, 03:11 PM
I doubt I will hear any road noise from the rear doors with a wall and 2 mt 18s :D
wow... i'd guess not
we're definitely going to need pics of this

dkguitarist
07-20-2005, 03:52 PM
hey guys i finally decided to get around to deadening my doors. well i got the passenger door but only did the part that you see in everyone else's pics. i barely got the door panel back on and my door wouldn't shut. but i fixed it. and i left all the holes open too. was this a really bad idea? i'm still waiting on my cdt's to come in. my door's are really a pain in the *** to deaden adn i really don't want to mess with cutting up my hands and arms trying to deaden the inside of the door. is it really necessary? it's effing hot too so i'm sweating my *** off trying to do this.

impalafan95
07-21-2005, 06:53 PM
wow... i'd guess not
we're definitely going to need pics of this
I'll get some pics once we actually start doing it. Sunday we're finally going to wire the car.

supa_c
07-22-2005, 01:31 AM
hey guys i finally decided to get around to deadening my doors. well i got the passenger door but only did the part that you see in everyone else's pics. i barely got the door panel back on and my door wouldn't shut. but i fixed it. and i left all the holes open too. was this a really bad idea? i'm still waiting on my cdt's to come in. my door's are really a pain in the *** to deaden adn i really don't want to mess with cutting up my hands and arms trying to deaden the inside of the door. is it really necessary? it's effing hot too so i'm sweating my *** off trying to do this.
If you cant cover the holes with MDF/plexi then use some deadner to cover them. Something is better than nothing.
If you are careful ( like me) you wont get any cuts anywhere.
If its to hot in the day, do it at night or when the sun goes down

dkguitarist
07-23-2005, 05:33 PM
If you cant cover the holes with MDF/plexi then use some deadner to cover them. Something is better than nothing.
If you are careful ( like me) you wont get any cuts anywhere.
If its to hot in the day, do it at night or when the sun goes down


thanks. yeah i'll try deadening it more later. also is the eggcarton really necessary too? cuz i threw away the oem plastic piece that covers the door when u take the panel off. what will happen when it rains/snows? btw i did get my cl-61's in and my d3 400.2 in. just waiting to install those as well.

JAZN
07-23-2005, 05:46 PM
eggcarton eliminates standing waves behind the mid thatll cause cancellation and resonance.
you should do it. as for weather protection, u can buy those foam thingies that go around your mid from cardomain/crutchfied. i dont know what theyre called, somebody chime in por favor :D

dkguitarist
07-23-2005, 06:20 PM
eggcarton eliminates standing waves behind the mid thatll cause cancellation and resonance.
you should do it. as for weather protection, u can buy those foam thingies that go around your mid from cardomain/crutchfied. i dont know what theyre called, somebody chime in por favor :D


foam baffles? and thanks for the advice

DeathtoToasters
08-19-2005, 11:43 AM
Is there a recommened Sound dampening material? I obviously know of Dynomat...how about cascade?

I have just heard some stories form local shops about using bad material and the whole car smells like tar or something like that!

Also good places to purchase it online at some good prices?
Thanks

squeak9798
08-19-2005, 11:51 AM
Is there a recommened Sound dampening material? I obviously know of Dynomat...how about cascade?

Any quality dampener will work. My personal favorite thus far is Raammat (www.raamaudio.com).

But, SecondSkin, HushMat, FatMat, B-Quiet, Mad Mat, etc etc will all work.


I have just heard some stories form local shops about using bad material and the whole car smells like tar or something like that!

Yeah. Some (most?) asphalt based deadeners will smell like that. Anything I listed above you won't have any problem like that, however.


Also good places to purchase it online at some good prices?

Like I said; I'd recommend Raammat at the address I listed above. Excellent product at an excellent price. Rick (the owner) is an awesome guy aswell. Works better IMO than my SecondSkin Damplifier. And IMO works just as well as Dynamat Extreme for ~1/3 the cost.

MetalMaxima
08-19-2005, 11:52 AM
Second Skin = teh b0mz0r

squeak9798
08-19-2005, 12:49 PM
Second Skin = teh b0mz0r


I have no idea what that says, or means.

Hoot
08-21-2005, 06:41 PM
Well, I can tell you that SecondSkin is excellent - both Damplifier and Damplifier PRO. BTW, I have heard that linoleum works well to fill the holes on the door, double it up on the big holes (glue 2 layers together).

juckstapose
08-22-2005, 10:27 AM
I just added some clay to my GF's car over the weekend. It made a very noticable difference. I went to an art supply store and got some clay the has a melting point of 150. I think it's called Roma Prima. It looks like a stick of butter except that it weighs a pound. I got that kind because there are four different levels of firmness. The highest level is really tough but never hardens. Heat it up in the microwave for about 3 minutes or until it is workable and go to town. It is oil based, so be careful and make sure you use a glass dish or something comparable. My theory is that even if your car reaches the melting point, the stuff is so firm that I think it would take a lot more to actually melt off, plus it's stiffer which is always a good thing.

The clay is called Roma Plastina.

Hoot
08-22-2005, 11:32 PM
What about plumber's putty? That isn't going to melt.

supa_c
08-23-2005, 12:16 AM
I dont see why you couldnt use that. But i think its the density of the clay that makes it "deaden". Plumbers putty is not as dense.

onobeka
08-23-2005, 07:30 AM
When the door si deadened like that does the outer skin still vibrate on heavy midbass? How is the music from the exterior of the car? Without the deadener it can be heared. With the deadener the volume increases of course, but how about the outer level? I have my doors deadened with flashing tape. It made quite a big improvement though I did not pay much attention to the outer skin because of lack of material when the job was done. It (outer skin) still vibrates a lot, so I guess "music" is lost there. I guess I will open them again :furious: and cover them completely in 2 layers of flashing tape. That would be ~3mm of deadener.

squeak9798
08-25-2005, 10:56 PM
When the door si deadened like that does the outer skin still vibrate on heavy midbass?

Very very little, when done properly.


How is the music from the exterior of the car?

Quieter, but still audible when cranked


With the deadener the volume increases of course, but how about the outer level?

Like I said. It will typically still be audible when jamming, but when done right there should be a noticeable decrease, especially if you use a barrier loading material such as open or closed cell foam.

DIGIDIGIBOMBO
09-11-2005, 04:50 PM
Hi, any material used for sound reduction will work true? i dont live in usa, this deadening material is actually like an aluminum foil that sticks to a surface when applied?? and why always the speakers in the doors are rounded not oval, and usually they are 2 ways not 3. Any thoughts? thx

supa_c
09-11-2005, 05:27 PM
Most will do the job.
Its aluminum backed to make it hold the concours better.
round speakers are better :)
3 way components cost a considerable amount more than 2 way components

baseballer1100
09-25-2005, 04:59 PM
If you get your car proffesionally deadened instad of doing it yourself how mcuh does that normally cost?

squeak9798
09-25-2005, 05:02 PM
If you get your car proffesionally deadened instad of doing it yourself how mcuh does that normally cost?


Way too much.

Figure most shops charge $50-$75/hr.....and it would take them no less than 2 hours even for a minor deadening job with disassembly/reassembling your vehicle, etc etc. For a major deadening job, it would take probably 10-15 hours, if not more.


And that doesn't even include the cost of the product itself.

JLee1469
09-25-2005, 05:04 PM
I got quoted $400-500 from tweeter including materials (Dynamat) for the trunk and doors. They refused to use a product other than theirs.

I ended up doing it myself and it isnt hard at all except its time consuming.

baseballer1100
09-25-2005, 05:11 PM
its the time going to kjill me and the inexperience

supa_c
09-25-2005, 07:07 PM
I did the foam behind the speaker.....TOTALLY makes a difference
Bass is much tighter and a bit louder. Before it was really boomy and wasnt clean at all

Decado
10-11-2005, 01:12 AM
I have a couple questions, first:

Do i deaden the outside of the inside panel as well? Nothing has been said about that. And also, which works better, deflex pad or egg carton foam (water retention aside)? And also, does the plexiglass need deadening over or do i just leave it clear?

supa_c
10-11-2005, 03:08 AM
Inside panel ?
The door skin that's covered by the door panel ?
Egg crate is free or very cheap, deflex pads are like $20.
I dont see why you couldnt deaden the plexi, it would be eaiser to cover the whole door

Decado
10-11-2005, 03:21 AM
Inside panel ?
The door skin that's covered by the door panel ?
Egg crate is free or very cheap, deflex pads are like $20.
I dont see why you couldnt deaden the plexi, it would be eaiser to cover the whole door

Ok, in that tutorial it showed the inner panel (closest to inside the car, what you mount your speaker on) with sound deadening and it showed the outer panel with deadening, what i'm asking is do i deaden the backside of the inner panel also? And as for the egg crate and deflex pad, you're saying that the only difference is price?

JAZN
10-11-2005, 03:40 AM
you should deaden the backside inner panel if you can.

supa_c
10-11-2005, 04:45 AM
It wont be easy.
The egg crate foam worked great for me. npdang( originator of this thread) said that he had better results with it as well

Dozy_production
10-11-2005, 08:38 AM
back side of inner panel = ? sorry just need the clarification.

Decado
10-11-2005, 01:28 PM
You should notice a slight improvement to your midrange. For me, the egg carton foam was a bit more effective than the Deflex pad.

Reading comprehension pwns me...:laugh: .

supa_c
10-11-2005, 11:20 PM
back side of inner panel = ? sorry just need the clarification.
you have 2 panels, one inner one outer
Most people just deaden the inner panel face. What we mean is to do the front and back of that 1at panel. Not the furthermost door panel, exterior panel

Decado
10-14-2005, 05:13 PM
Anyone know where i can get egg carton foam? Possibly weather treated? And should i get the many small dimpled foam, or the bigger fewer dimpled foam?

supa_c
10-14-2005, 08:06 PM
Does it even come in small dimples ?
Packing suppiles store should have some.

Decado
10-15-2005, 02:19 AM
Does it even come in small dimples ?
Packing suppiles store should have some.

Ya, it does. So could i get it at like a ups store or something?

supa_c
10-15-2005, 02:23 AM
I never knew.....
UPS, i dunno, you could try them

Decado
10-15-2005, 02:32 AM
I never knew.....
UPS, i dunno, you could try them

What are some other packaging stores? I have no idea what i'd look for to find one.

supa_c
10-15-2005, 02:48 AM
I dunno, prob different than ones in cali

jakl27
10-15-2005, 08:52 AM
i dunno if it was asked already (too many posts to read) buton the first page, you out the clay on the ring. i assume u dont mount the midbass on the side where the clay is right?

cykario
10-17-2005, 08:59 PM
If I'm going with custom kick panels should I use egg crate and dynamat (or any other material) to cover the whole panel?

JAZN
10-17-2005, 09:28 PM
i dunno if it was asked already (too many posts to read) buton the first page, you out the clay on the ring. i assume u dont mount the midbass on the side where the clay is right?
you should have clay between the midbass and mdf ring.

Decado
10-18-2005, 01:45 AM
you should have clay between the midbass and mdf ring.

And clay between the mdf ring and the door ;) .

Decado
10-19-2005, 06:57 PM
So...would the small dimpled stuff work? I cannot find anything else anywhere.

squeak9798
10-19-2005, 07:03 PM
So...would the small dimpled stuff work? I cannot find anything else anywhere.

Huh? Work for what?

Decado
10-19-2005, 10:44 PM
Huh? Work for what?

Uhh sorry, read a page back, i was wondering if the small many bump foam egg carton will work just as good as the big fewer bump stuff.

lil azn 06
10-21-2005, 12:25 AM
Would it be bad to stack 2 3/4 mdf rings to make 1 1/2 inch wood ( wiould use screws to keep them tight) or should i just stick with 1 mdf ring? SQ is the objective here for me, and if theres no difference, then ill stack the 2 mdf rings. Reason for stacking them is the door panel (plastic part) is too big of a hole, and id rather have the speaker sticking out a bit instead of going inward.

Also, what screws should i use to mount the mdf rings to the car? Nuts and bolts, or metal screws?

Lastly, what kind of clay should i buy?

Thanks

Decado
10-21-2005, 12:28 AM
2 rings should be just fine, for screws, i don't know what everybody else uses but I used self tapping screws so it would go into the metal and made sure i drilled big enough holes in the mdf so it wouldnt crack, works great. And the clay, just buy some non-hardening modeling clay, any craft store should have it, and people were saying wal-mart also.

slain93gsr
10-21-2005, 12:39 AM
i've use wood glue to connect two mdf rings before let them sit a day and it should be good to go..

Decado
10-21-2005, 02:44 AM
i've use wood glue to connect two mdf rings before let them sit a day and it should be good to go..

Ohh...ya, forgot about that, haha, it's been a long day...

lil azn 06
10-21-2005, 06:49 AM
wood glue?

And also, since i live in Houston, which is always hot as hell/humid, would clay be a good idea? Also, do i stick clay bwt the 2 mdf rings?

Decado
10-21-2005, 01:44 PM
wood glue?

And also, since i live in Houston, which is always hot as hell/humid, would clay be a good idea? Also, do i stick clay bwt the 2 mdf rings?

You put wood glue between the 2 mdf rings...

lil azn 06
10-23-2005, 02:38 PM
my dad refuses to use clay on the doors (its my car so wtf) but he says its stupid. Instead he says i should use weather insulation tape. So, how does that work out?


Also, i got my 12w6v2 and i was wondering if theres anything i can put to keep the rearview center mirror from shaking so much.

Decado
10-23-2005, 11:45 PM
my dad refuses to use clay on the doors (its my car so wtf) but he says its stupid. Instead he says i should use weather insulation tape. So, how does that work out?
Weather insulation tape may seal around the speaker up, but I do not think that it will stop any resonating.


Also, i got my 12w6v2 and i was wondering if theres anything i can put to keep the rearview center mirror from shaking so much.

Sound deaden your trunk? That may cut down on some vibrations you get up there. Other than that there's not a whole lot you can do. Just use your side mirrors, that's what I do, because my rearview mirror fell off from bass and I can't get the ****er to stay back on.

supa_c
10-24-2005, 02:46 AM
If you want your rear view to stop rattling so much turn the volume down...DUH
Try loostening (sp?) the mirror screw and see if it makes a diff

Decado
10-24-2005, 02:49 AM
If you want your rear view to stop rattling so much turn the volume down...DUH
Try loostening (sp?) the mirror screw and see if it makes a diff

Wouldnt you figure loosening it would make it buzz/rattle though?

dleccord
10-24-2005, 03:25 AM
Instead of MDF rings, would it be okay to clay the hard plastic spacers( from Metra)? Where did you guys buy your MDFs at? Home Depot?

LBX2G
10-24-2005, 03:36 AM
Where did you guys buy your MDFs at? Home Depot?

yes or lowe's

JimJ
10-24-2005, 03:53 AM
Instead of MDF rings, would it be okay to clay the hard plastic spacers( from Metra)? Where did you guys buy your MDFs at? Home Depot?

Plastic is going to tend to resonate much more than MDF or baltic birch ply...

supa_c
10-24-2005, 04:06 AM
Wouldnt you figure loosening it would make it buzz/rattle though? thats what the SPL guys do......

1967impala
10-24-2005, 04:27 AM
take it off the w6 hahaha

dleccord
10-24-2005, 11:11 AM
most likely will it come in ring forms or do I have to cut them out?

Untouchable11
10-24-2005, 02:45 PM
most likely will it come in ring forms or do I have to cut them out?

You will have to cut them out... I always tend to use a router, but I have seen in done with a jigsaw before...

I will be completing this task very very shortly, well, actually probably closer to the spring. Working out in the open without a garage is not fun.

dleccord
10-24-2005, 04:17 PM
i know that the MDF are wood but can it be any kind of wood?

Decado
10-24-2005, 10:48 PM
i know that the MDF are wood but can it be any kind of wood?

I don't understand what you're saying, MDF is a specific kind of wood, medium density fiberboard.


You will have to cut them out... I always tend to use a router, but I have seen in done with a jigsaw before...

I will be completing this task very very shortly, well, actually probably closer to the spring. Working out in the open without a garage is not fun.

Lol ya, i've been doing it in ~40 degree temperatures the past few days, def not fun.

Dozy_production
10-25-2005, 12:05 AM
question: After taking out the stock rings and putting mdf rings in with the clay and deadner and all. Did all of your guys' installs still have enough space for you to put the door panel on and still making it look stock? if not then what did you do?

JimJ
10-25-2005, 12:07 AM
That's going to depend on how much clearance you have...

In my door, I've got .75" of clearance from the metal panel to the door, so when I install 1/2" rings, I'll have enough clearance behind it.

Dozy_production
10-25-2005, 12:25 AM
well from the metal plate to the window (closed) is about an inch and mabye another .5 inches to go but i have about a 3 inch deep speaker. i was thinking in putting in fiberglass pods. RwaR!

Decado
10-25-2005, 12:31 AM
well from the metal plate to the window (closed) is about an inch and mabye another .5 inches to go but i have about a 3 inch deep speaker. i was thinking in putting in fiberglass pods. RwaR!
Well if you only have 1.5 deep and a 3 deep speaker you would have to put in pods...unless you have enough clearance from metal panel to plastic panel to add 1.5 inches of mdf.

Dozy_production
10-25-2005, 12:43 AM
well with all these hurricanes it will not be good times for fiberglassing. yes thats right its not sunny after all in san diego.:crazy:

lil azn 06
10-25-2005, 12:56 AM
i cutted the mdf woods and bought non hardening clay (1 lb for 2.99 x 3)so i was wondering if...

- for the hole of the mdf ring, should i make it a perfect circle or does it not matter? (it is somewhat uneven, but non the less a semi circle.
- I put clay bwt the door and mdf ring and clay bwt the mdf ring and the speaker correct?
- I also put clay surrounding the ring correct?
- How thick should the layer of clay be for contact bwt the mdf/door and mdf/speaker?

dleccord
10-25-2005, 01:57 AM
[QUOTE=Decado]I don't understand what you're saying, MDF is a specific kind of wood, medium density fiberboard.


thanks for putting it in perspective now, i thought it could be anywood but thanks now

dleccord
10-26-2005, 09:02 PM
the guys at home depot doesn't seem to know what MDFs are . what do you guys think about using plywood instead?

JimJ
10-26-2005, 09:06 PM
Baltic birch plywood would work as well...although I highly doubt they don't stock MDF.

JAZN
10-26-2005, 09:10 PM
i cutted the mdf woods and bought non hardening clay (1 lb for 2.99 x 3)so i was wondering if...

- for the hole of the mdf ring, should i make it a perfect circle or does it not matter? (it is somewhat uneven, but non the less a semi circle.
- I put clay bwt the door and mdf ring and clay bwt the mdf ring and the speaker correct?
- I also put clay surrounding the ring correct?
- How thick should the layer of clay be for contact bwt the mdf/door and mdf/speaker?
1) Are you talking about the speaker cutout? If so, it should be a relatively snug fit for the speaker. When you look through the mounting holes, you should only see wood.
2) yes
3) yes
4)~2-3mm.

supa_c
10-26-2005, 09:10 PM
If they dont know what MDF is then they are in the wrong store....

Decado
10-26-2005, 11:15 PM
the guys at home depot doesn't seem to know what MDFs are . what do you guys think about using plywood instead?

Did you go in there asking for MDFs? Because they arent going to know what you're talking about. Ask for MDF, or medium density fiberboard, not MDFs lol :crazy: .

dleccord
10-27-2005, 01:48 AM
LOL ...ill go do that this weekend or something






where the holloween party @ ?

Decado
10-27-2005, 01:52 AM
where the holloween party @ ?

???

supa_c
10-27-2005, 04:49 AM
screw it, just buy a sheet of OSB, 1/2 the price of MDF and it smells better

civicgirl
10-27-2005, 10:20 AM
Does anyone know how much sound deadener it takes to do a whole trunk of a 2000 Civic coupe? I want every inch of the trunk sound deadened. I am planning on using Dynamat Xtreme and I need to know how much of it I should buy. The bulk pack has 36 square feet. I also have 2 cans of the dynashield spray by dynamat.

squeak9798
10-27-2005, 11:32 AM
Does anyone know how much sound deadener it takes to do a whole trunk of a 2000 Civic coupe? I want every inch of the trunk sound deadened. I am planning on using Dynamat Xtreme and I need to know how much of it I should buy. The bulk pack has 36 square feet. I also have 2 cans of the dynashield spray by dynamat.

Dynamat Xtreme = way too ****ed expensive.

www.raamaudio.com ;) Great deadener, at 1/4 of the price.

I'd get atleast 60sqft, should be enough to do 1 full layer and some 2nd layer in the resonant areas. IIRC I used ~30-40sqft to do 1 layer on my trunk, and it's pretty decent sized.

civicgirl
10-27-2005, 03:15 PM
Dynamat Xtreme = way too ****ed expensive.

www.raamaudio.com ;) Great deadener, at 1/4 of the price.

I'd get atleast 60sqft, should be enough to do 1 full layer and some 2nd layer in the resonant areas. IIRC I used ~30-40sqft to do 1 layer on my trunk, and it's pretty decent sized.

Thanks squeak. Where else should I put some sound deadener. I already have some installed on my car doors and rear deck. I am getting 1 12in type R. Well I already have it but it will be installed this weekend.

Johnny Drama
10-27-2005, 03:38 PM
Thanks squeak. Where else should I put some sound deadener. I already have some installed on my car doors and rear deck. I am getting 1 12in type R. Well I already have it but it will be installed this weekend.

Doors, trunk, wheelwell, dash, rear deck, under carpet, under the hearliner.

JimJ
10-27-2005, 03:39 PM
Headliner, maybe on the floor/firewall...

supa_c
10-27-2005, 08:34 PM
80sqft will cover that car with 2 layers on the trunk and 1 layer all around.
Dunno about the roof, if you have a sun roof its pointless

dleccord
10-28-2005, 02:26 AM
what are OSB? MDF is way more than I need if I get it for $20, they give me like 6'x4' or something close.

Decado
10-28-2005, 02:45 AM
what are OSB? MDF is way more than I need if I get it for $20, they give me like 6'x4' or something close.

I do believe that you can get 2'x4' sheets at Home Depot, in fact, that's all they have at the Home Depot by my house.

supa_c
10-28-2005, 03:31 AM
OSB is like the crappiest wood ever.
It comes in 4x8 guys.....

dleccord
10-30-2005, 10:06 PM
has anyone bought the MDFs on ebay the precut 6.5s" ?

SpankeyND
10-31-2005, 01:34 AM
A plexiglass cutting recomendation. Plexiglass is designed to score and break, and it's much easier that way, unless you have compound curves to cut in. All you need is a utility knife and a straight edge. It also grinds well to take off edges and round corners.

Does anyone know if the wal mart scosche accumat is asphalt based?

Richard


;edited for clarification;

Decado
10-31-2005, 02:08 AM
A plexi cutting tip. It's designed to score and break, much easier that way, unless you have compound curves to cut in. It also grinds well to take off edges.

Does anyone know if the wal mart scosche accumat is asphalt based?

Richard

Plexiglass cut just fine for me with a jigsaw, I just made sure each side of the glass I was cutting was held down good and didn't flex. And as for the walmart stuff, I know nothing about it, but I wouldn't buy it if I were you, I'm sure it's pretty horrible.

supa_c
10-31-2005, 03:22 AM
I used a table saw. It smells weird when you cut it though.
Second Skin would be a better deadner than the Accumatt.
Its probably cheaper too

Decado
10-31-2005, 03:22 AM
I used a table saw. It smells weird when you cut it though.
Second Skin would be a better deadner than the Accumatt.
Its probably cheaper too

X2 for the second skin, great stuff.

Dozy_production
11-01-2005, 08:57 AM
has anyone used the dayton sound deadner?

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGroup_ID=37&manufacturer=301&sm=1&so=2&raid=39&rak=sound_deadning_sheets

its pretty inexpensive but so is crap... just wanted to get input on it

SpankeyND
11-01-2005, 09:41 AM
It is made of a mineral filled asphalt polymer
Asphalt = stinky

Dozy_production
11-01-2005, 06:28 PM
it said without the stink.

supa_c
11-01-2005, 07:41 PM
Vynl based ( ss deadner) is better than asphalt crap

baseballer1100
11-01-2005, 07:46 PM
Does anyone know how much i would need for the trunk explorer/mountaineer 1999 I just thought i would ask you all before i measured

supa_c
11-01-2005, 07:49 PM
Just measure

Dozy_production
11-01-2005, 11:21 PM
Ssssssssuper thanks for anssssssssswering!

supa_c
11-01-2005, 11:41 PM
S key stuck ?

dleccord
11-04-2005, 03:57 AM
Asphalt = stinky

will the stink go away? is it a good buy?

supa_c
11-04-2005, 04:11 AM
It will go away eventually.
Give it a good week.

dleccord
11-07-2005, 02:37 AM
so anyone here recommend fatmat? kinda low budget here or should I wait?

supa_c
11-07-2005, 03:41 AM
If you cant afford the nice stuff fatmat will work.
Also look at peel and seal as well as edead, basically all the same stuff

dleccord
11-10-2005, 03:09 AM
peel and seal at like home depot? will they know what im talking about?

supa_c
11-10-2005, 11:36 AM
Yep. Its in the roofing section.

lil azn 06
11-13-2005, 11:04 AM
Is there anything wrong that i did here? Both have a clay layer, then the mdf, then more clay then this foam box thing to keep rain from hittin the speaker then its the speaker. (deadening is to be done later on)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_4011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_4012.jpg

Thanks

supa_c
11-14-2005, 02:44 AM
I used those foam thingys. They made the bass worse

lil azn 06
11-14-2005, 07:08 AM
i cut huge holes on the bottom of the foam baffles though

Decado
11-14-2005, 06:20 PM
i cut huge holes on the bottom of the foam baffles though

Then what's the point of having em?

creater
11-14-2005, 08:11 PM
does uraban work as good as deadner???

uraban is that thing used to seal pipes and roofs etc etc

lil azn 06
11-14-2005, 11:54 PM
Then what's the point of having em?

to keep rain from hitting the top/speaker. Water slides down (yes ive tested it) the baffles, but doesnt hit the speaker. Hell i didnt want them in, my dad kept insisting. anyways, does it look good enough?

Decado
11-15-2005, 12:10 AM
to keep rain from hitting the top/speaker. Water slides down (yes ive tested it) the baffles, but doesnt hit the speaker. Hell i didnt want them in, my dad kept insisting. anyways, does it look good enough?

Ahh, I suppose that would be car dependant, I woulda thought the water would splash up on the bottom when puddles and stuff were hit.

HAVINGFUN
11-28-2005, 10:22 AM
I will be working on my doors in a few weeks and I had some questions after reading this entire sticky.

Will the clay come off in the Dallas area temp or will it be just fine with the temp in the doors getting up around 120-130?

How much sound is lost with the mids trying to fight through the stock grills/door panel. Do you guys use some sort of rubber ring or foam around the outside of the mid to fit tightly against the door panel to force the sound to go directly out the grill so sound does not escape into the door panel?

I have always had an impossible time try to run wires through the stock rubber tube that lets the wires run from the dash area into the doors. Do you guys just use the stock wires or do you run your own and drill a new hole into the door?

The manuf of comps always say to keep your tweeters within 6 inches of the mid, this is about impossible unless you use Q-forms or build your own pods for the kicks.

JimJ
11-28-2005, 10:32 AM
I will be working on my doors in a few weeks and I had some questions after reading this entire sticky.

Will the clay come off in the Dallas area temp or will it be just fine with the temp in the doors getting up around 120-130?

Butyl rubber based products, such as RAAMmat and SS, will do fine up to 300 degrees or so before failing...can't say the same about asphalt based ones.


How much sound is lost with the mids trying to fight through the stock grills/door panel. Do you guys use some sort of rubber ring or foam around the outside of the mid to fit tightly against the door panel to force the sound to go directly out the grill so sound does not escape into the door panel?

A ton of sound is lost through holes in the door panel, if that's what you mean...make sure to seal all the holes in the door by covering them in several layers of deadener and making sure the door is as airtight as possible. You want the only opening in the door to be where the speaker is.


I have always had an impossible time try to run wires through the stock rubber tube that lets the wires run from the dash area into the doors. Do you guys just use the stock wires or do you run your own and drill a new hole into the door?

When I install my mids, I'm going to run new wires, might as well...have you tried electrical fish tape or using a piece of coathanger to fish the wire through?


The manuf of comps always say to keep your tweeters within 6 inches of the mid, this is about impossible unless you use Q-forms or build your own pods for the kicks.

Imaging will depend on the vehicle, but yeah - keeping the tweet close to the mid and in the same plane is usually recommended.

HAVINGFUN
11-28-2005, 10:56 AM
Thanks for the reply. I actually meant the door panel grill that protects and covers the speaker in the pic below. Sound would have to escape within the panel as it bounces off the grill back towards the speaker. I was wondering if you guys used something around the speaker like foam tape or another baffle ring to sit up against the door panel grill so sound does not escape within the door panel and is forced to go out the grill.

I also meant the modelling clay that people put around the speaker and not the sound deadning dynamat products. Will this clay fall off in hot temp.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/phaez/hio.jpg

Dozy_production
11-28-2005, 11:00 AM
mabye its been answered already but im making some mdf rings for mid and tweet to put them in the stock location in my civic. WEll around that area its very uneven. Any suggestions to fill the gaps and wholes that will come up? Also if you used mdf rings how did you secure to door, screws or glue or?


haha type s eh? hows the treating you. and x2 on the clay for hot temps.

HAVINGFUN
11-28-2005, 11:09 AM
mabye its been answered already but im making some mdf rings for mid and tweet to put them in the stock location in my civic. WEll around that area its very uneven. Any suggestions to fill the gaps and wholes that will come up? Also if you used mdf rings how did you secure to door, screws or glue or?


haha type s eh? hows the treating you. and x2 on the clay for hot temps.

That is not my car but an example that I found.
Try the clay on the under side of the ring to fill the gaps and caulk around the side. Then more clay around the ring.

Dozy_production
11-28-2005, 11:48 AM
thanks. but would that wal mart clay take 100 degrees?

HAVINGFUN
11-28-2005, 02:35 PM
thanks. but would that wal mart clay take 100 degrees?

I just got some clay at Hobby Lobby and I have it in the oven at 140 degrees and I am going to see what happens.

supa_c
11-28-2005, 08:17 PM
I just screwed the MDF ring to the door panel and then screwed the speaker to the ring.
Any open voids were filled with the clay.
I bought the cheap stuff( from wal mart), it melts and makes a BIG mess.
I usually use the scock grilles because it looks bad without them and most aftermarket ones wont fit

Dozy_production
11-28-2005, 09:10 PM
hm... just bought some wal mart clay. it said that it holds till 140 degrees. ill test in the oven. thanks.

supa_c
11-28-2005, 09:13 PM
Was it the kiddy stuff that smells good and comes in 4 different colours ?

Dozy_production
11-28-2005, 09:42 PM
yeah. well it melted at 170 (the lowest point any of my ovens go to) but that doesnt do me any good. I live in san diego so it rarely gets more than 105. lets say add another 25 degrees to that and thats how hot it is in the car door. any other "easy" alternatives?

supa_c
11-29-2005, 02:24 AM
It wont melt, as long as you dont have your car in 100+ deg weather.

alphakenny1
11-30-2005, 11:55 PM
hey just finished a deaden install in my friend's scion xb. here are some pics.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/misterassman52/DSC00746.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/misterassman52/DSC00745.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/misterassman52/DSC00744.jpg

My friend comps set is the A/D/S 246ix running 2 channels off of an USamps I/S 4085. we listened to music for a good amount of time before the install. then after installing we listened to it for about 10-15 min and there was a huge improvement in the midbass. IT took about 3 hrs to do both doors with two people. I would recommend to anyone who thiking about doing it, definately worth the time.

JimJ
11-30-2005, 11:58 PM
How many layers?

alphakenny1
12-01-2005, 12:05 AM
just one.

supa_c
12-01-2005, 01:44 AM
only 1, cmon
Did you do all of the steps, foam behind mid, hard material for gaping holes..ect

alphakenny1
12-01-2005, 01:48 AM
yea we got lazy so we only did one. he's going this weekend to buy some foam and yes also hard material for the holes.

supa_c
12-01-2005, 02:04 AM
It'll make a diference with the foam.

lil azn 06
12-02-2005, 07:29 PM
I have a question. The plastic on the doors ive seen are hard but on my integra, its soft like a paper, and is loose. This will degrade the performance of the speakers, right? Even with deadening?

squeak9798
12-07-2005, 08:40 AM
I have a question. The plastic on the doors ive seen are hard but on my integra, its soft like a paper, and is loose. This will degrade the performance of the speakers, right? Even with deadening?

??

If you are talking about the moisture barrier, just rip it down and "replace" it with sound deadening.

lil azn 06
12-08-2005, 02:35 PM
this plastic thing

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_39551.jpg

Wont the sound deadenin peel off due to moisture though?

stevcha
12-08-2005, 09:41 PM
this plastic thing

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_39551.jpg

Wont the sound deadenin peel off due to moisture though?

No, just make sure you apply the deadener using a roller or something similiar so that you get it to adhere really well.

JimJ
12-08-2005, 09:43 PM
It'll make a diference with the foam.

You think a deflex pad behind the mid would make a big difference? If so, I'll put one in, but I'm not sure how much more good it would do considering I've got three layers on the outer door skin already.

Decado
12-09-2005, 01:12 AM
You think a deflex pad behind the mid would make a big difference? If so, I'll put one in, but I'm not sure how much more good it would do considering I've got three layers on the outer door skin already.

It is to deflect the rear waves away from the speaker so that it does not cause distortion, even though you have 3 layers the rear waves will still bounce off and hit the rear of the speaker (unless you somehow created some kind of ripple surface with your deadening, lol).

supa_c
12-09-2005, 02:27 AM
You think a deflex pad behind the mid would make a big difference? If so, I'll put one in, but I'm not sure how much more good it would do considering I've got three layers on the outer door skin already.
I did a little test to see if it made a diff.
I only applied the foam to one side of the car.
pioneer 5/4" mids in an un deadned door.
The un deadned door didnt have bass that was "pronounced" It sounded like it was just playing free air.
I put it on the other side, bass improved enough so i could gear the difference. And it cost me nothing so its definetly not counterproductive.
You should notice a difference with that t00b ear you have

squeak9798
12-09-2005, 08:44 AM
You think a deflex pad behind the mid would make a big difference? If so, I'll put one in, but I'm not sure how much more good it would do considering I've got three layers on the outer door skin already.


As Decado said; Sound deadening is to deaden the panel from resonances. But a Deflex pad is designed to actually deflect the rear wave so it doesn't bounce off of the rear wall an back towards the speaker, muddying up the midrange. Open cell foam serves sort of the same function.....only it's supposed to absorb the rearwave rather than deflect it.


From what I've read, they can make quite a noticeable difference in the midrange area.

JimJ
12-09-2005, 01:49 PM
I've added it to my PCx order :)

Hopefully it'll make a difference. I'd rather use deflex pads instead of open cell foam, just seems like a recipe to trap excess moisture.

lil azn 06
12-09-2005, 08:17 PM
so i jus apply it on the outer part of the door correct? (where the moisture layer is) and i remove the moisture layer. Anything else to help improve sound?

JimJ
12-09-2005, 08:25 PM
Fill all the holes in the door...make sure the only hole in the door is where the speaker cutout is.

lil azn 06
12-10-2005, 12:46 AM
do i put it under the baffle as well? Should i just leave the interior of the door (where the window goes into) alone or should i put something in there as well? I have 8 12"x36" dynamat peices, and although im not sure, but it seems like a lot for 2 doors.

Decado
12-10-2005, 06:32 AM
do i put it under the baffle as well? Should i just leave the interior of the door (where the window goes into) alone or should i put something in there as well? I have 8 12"x36" dynamat peices, and although im not sure, but it seems like a lot for 2 doors.

You'll see how little it really is.

Sweetride01
12-19-2005, 10:07 PM
Ok, well I'm about to start work on installing my speakers. Some questions:
1. There is a big-*** power-wire that runs through the kickpanel right by the speaker. Will this become a problem for me in any way other than a fitment problem?
2. My new 6.5" speaker obviously won't fit in the 5.25" spot. It's also too deep. So I will cut a hole in the plastic kick-cover, and then do the MDF+clay thing. How do i secure the speaker though? Screws through the MDF and into the metal of the kick?

Thats it for now. I'm sure I'll have more Q's later though. :)

BodegaBay
12-23-2005, 05:20 AM
...I went to an art supply store and got some clay the has a melting point of 150. I think it's called Roma Prima. It looks like a stick of butter except that it weighs a pound. I got that kind because there are four different levels of firmness. The highest level is really tough but never hardens. Heat it up in the microwave for about 3 minutes or until it is workable and go to town...The clay is called Roma Plastina.

Roma Plastilina can be found here (http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_products.cfm?classID=2012&subclassID=201210&brandname=Standard%20Clay%20Mines). This oil based non-hardening sculpting clay is available in four consistencies:

#1 - Soft
#2 - Medium
#3 - Medium Firm
#4 - Very hard


http://img.shopping.com/images1/di/43/73/65/4e/4d/567a6f416a6e45594e62376b764f4c5077-140x119.jpg

http://www.taxidermy.com/cat/18/art/MC2.jpg

Sweetride01
12-23-2005, 11:13 AM
Roma Plastilina can be found here (http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_products.cfm?classID=2012&subclassID=201210&brandname=Standard%20Clay%20Mines). This oil based non-hardening sculpting clay is available in four consistencies:

#1 - Soft
#2 - Medium
#3 - Medium Firm
#4 - Very hard


http://img.shopping.com/images1/di/43/73/65/4e/4d/567a6f416a6e45594e62376b764f4c5077-140x119.jpg

http://www.taxidermy.com/cat/18/art/MC2.jpg

So only the very hard one should be used?

96civ
12-27-2005, 03:52 PM
Would applying Dynamat, Peel & Seal, <<any other sound deadening material>>, decrease the resale of any car drastically or at all?

Dozy_production
12-27-2005, 03:55 PM
its an investment to your car. As long as your panels and plastic and etc. wasn't scratched or done any harm to it probably would not effect the resale.

speedracerx
12-28-2005, 02:34 PM
If a shallow, short, sealed box the length of the door yields proper volume for midwoofer (Extremis) can be hung on outside of door, is this better than using inside of door with previous steps mentioned taken? Box shape seems undesirable for good sound, but would perfect seal make up for shortcomings of other choices?

PESteele
01-19-2006, 02:40 PM
what does putting the mdf ring around the speaker do besides raising it up

What do i cover the holes up with if i cant afford deadener right now

when i do deaden my doors what are all the surfaces i put it on

rjorunner
02-11-2006, 10:51 PM
Ok, I'm about to do some sound deadening. I'm still a little confused on where all to put it, 1. I asume I put it on the outer layer of the inside sheet metal right, this would be the first metal if you start on the inside of the car (where you mount the speaker, and the only part you can see in all of these pics) , 2. then on the other side of this same piece of metal. 3. then do you put it on the 3rd available metal layer starting from the inside of the car? this would be on the other side of the window, the last available metal layer. 4. How about on the plastic door cover?

And as far as the rear/ sub goes I'm doing the hatch, would it help if I did the box also?

slain93gsr
02-12-2006, 06:25 PM
what does putting the mdf ring around the speaker do besides raising it up


mdf rings besides giving you a little bit more depth. will give your speaker something really solid to mount to. the stockish plastic rings/baffles resonates and are not an ideal speaker mount. adding mdf rings will give you better midbass response if they are installed correctly.

on where to apply the deadener. play some music with good drum dynamics or bass guitar and turn it up a to around where you normally listen and get outside of your car and feel around the door skin. you can feel where you need to apply it by feeling it resonate. Do the back of the door skin,the panel that the speaker is mounted to,and the back of the panel that the speaker is mounted to. cover up any holes in the doors. i personally deaden the doors as much as i can with out effecting the fitting of the actual door panels.

jimh
02-17-2006, 07:38 PM
plexiglass is good idea. If you want something selfadhesive you could get some Sintra. It is foamed PVC but very dense.

Also something better than eggcrate directly behind the speakers would be Orca Black Hole 5. Be prepared to pay tho.

Clay is good but if you are getting good SPL in the door it wil blow loose. Use silicone and you will get better sealing.

Also when using silicone let it totally cure (48 hours is what I do). It will eat your speaker surrounds.

canadian_mofo
03-01-2006, 12:36 PM
Hmmm i want to try that foam behind the speaker but i dont think i can. When i roll down the window all the way the glass is right behind my 6.5 with about 1/2 inch space between it and the speaker and another 1/2 inch between the glass and the exterior metal of the door. Any ideas?? Its a manual window too in a GMC sierra.

BodegaBay
03-01-2006, 03:07 PM
If you use good adhesive and the foam is so thick, it will just compress as the windows roll down. Most car front windows have the glass exposed to the speaker opening just as yours.

canadian_mofo
03-01-2006, 03:15 PM
ok im looking into getting either the second skin dampening mat or the raamatt i think 40 square feet of second skin would be enough to do two truck doors. Then ill prob just get that $20 foam seeing as egg carton would not compess so well when the windows rolled down. THanks for the help. Im all bored on my days off now that my speaker system is installed so this will be a nice little project for me.

Pyro_By_Nature
03-01-2006, 03:28 PM
Would applying Dynamat, Peel & Seal, <<any other sound deadening material>>, decrease the resale of any car drastically or at all?


Peel & Seal is NOT sound deadener.And if I knew that was placed in a vehicle I wouldn't buy it or I'd give a lot less for it.When it melts it will ruin the carpet.

canadian_mofo
03-08-2006, 08:36 PM
Finished making some new MDF baffles for my 6.5's and im quite impressed with myself they look pro. Bought some non hardening clay today from the craft store. I installed one of the baffles without the clay and i already notice a difference. Ill install the other baffle and the clay once my raamat dampening arrives. God **** im hooked on this car audio stuff now hehe. Its fun as hell.

BodegaBay
03-08-2006, 09:39 PM
Here are some of the stuff I've found and used:




1. Acoustical Foam from Parts Express (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-515&scqty=1)

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/260-515m.jpg

or

As an alternative, Dynamat Dynaxorb (http://www.dynamat.com/technical_specs_dynaxorb.html) from CarDomain or other sites (search Froogle)

http://www.abtelectronics.com/images/products/l_11800.gif





2. Scotchguard UltraRepellent with Mildew Block (http://www.3m.com/us/home_leisure/scotchgard/app_diy_ultra.jhtml) for acoustical foam can be found at any sporting goods section of Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, etc.

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/4700126.JPG




3. Van Aken Plastalina (http://www.vanaken.com/plastalina.html) non-hardening modeling clay found at any local art store.

http://www.vanaken.com/pics/plastalina.jpg

lil azn 06
03-08-2006, 11:11 PM
A quick overview before i completely deaded the doors.

- I deaden the outer door panel correct?
- To cover the larger holes of the inner door panel, i use pexiglass? How do i mount it? Screw holes into the metal door panel and mount? Wont pexiglass resonant?

I read the review of Dynaxorb on Cardomain from a user and he said it was pointless. Is this somewhat remotely true? Would deflex pads be better or worse?

BodegaBay
03-09-2006, 12:06 AM
Yes, deaden the outer door panel. Then deaden the inner metal skin of the door -- on both sides (the one facing the outer door panel and the one facing the towards inside the car's cabin.

I personally don't use plexiglass but others do. They mount it to the inner door skin panel via stainless screws. I don't personally know if the plexi will resonate but others here can comment.

Dynaxorb and Deflex are in the same category so their usefulness is subjective. However, "ndpang" in the DIYMA forum noted that acoustical foam seemed to be better vs. Deflex during his subjective listening tess. I do know a lot of home audio/theater speaker manufacturers use acoustical foam in their cabinets and have emperical data showing such improvements. Plus they are vastly less expensive vs. Dynaxorb/Deflex. I personally use acoustical foam in my setup.

squeak9798
03-09-2006, 09:00 AM
- To cover the larger holes of the inner door panel, i use pexiglass? How do i mount it? Screw holes into the metal door panel and mount? Wont pexiglass resonant?

You don't have to use plexi. You could cover the holes with a few layers of sound deadening, or with some spare MDF, etc.

You can mount the plexi using simply liquid nails/other sealers to hold it in place.


I read the review of Dynaxorb on Cardomain from a user and he said it was pointless. Is this somewhat remotely true? Would deflex pads be better or worse?

It's purpose, looking at it...appears to be to function the same as a deflex pad. Whether or not the user noticed a difference really depends on some different variables. Proper installation (putting it in the right place), whether or not they actually know what to listen for, etc. You really have no idea what changes they "expected" to hear. So, I would take those reviews with a grain of salt.

I haven't personally used Dynaxorb, so I can't tell you if it's good/better/worse. But I wouldn't rely too heavily on the reviews from cardomain.

lil azn 06
03-09-2006, 04:39 PM
Thanks BodegaBay and Squeak.

The thing about the acoustical foam is that im worried the water will definietly make it grow mold or perhaps make it stink overtime. I saw the Ultraguard Scotch, but just how long would it last? Squeak are u using a deflex pad?

BodegaBay
03-09-2006, 06:02 PM
Considering you live in Houston, how often is your car subjected to moisture?

squeak9798
03-09-2006, 06:10 PM
Thanks BodegaBay and Squeak.

The thing about the acoustical foam is that im worried the water will definietly make it grow mold or perhaps make it stink overtime. I saw the Ultraguard Scotch, but just how long would it last?

About anything you do to the foam to make it waterproof will also make the foam less effective.

Deflex pads are a better option if you are worried about moisture.


Squeak are u using a deflex pad?

No. But that's because my install is presently half-assed and unfinished :p:

lil azn 06
03-09-2006, 06:55 PM
Considering you live in Houston, how often is your car subjected to moisture?

Humidity, rain and considering that when it rains or car wash heh, it seeps easily through my windows (way more easy than the MDX or 3 series at home)

lil azn 06
03-11-2006, 11:04 AM
What the hell do i use to remove the door oil grease thing that is stuck on my doors? I tried soap with water, and a heavy duty grease remover and it still wont come off. Any ideas? Its the yellow crap that holds the plastic in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_39551.jpg

FoxPro5
03-11-2006, 12:12 PM
What the hell do i use to remove the door oil grease thing that is stuck on my doors? I tried soap with water, and a heavy duty grease remover and it still wont come off. Any ideas? Its the yellow crap that holds the plastic in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_39551.jpg

I guess I got lucky with my black goop. I used a puddy knife to kind of get it started and just kept working it up and off. I guess I would wait to get it wet or try chemicals as a last resort....that could get really messy.

To stop the back waves I used OverKill from SecondSkin and then glued a chunk of 100% waterproof camping pad that I got at Walmart. If you want some PM me and I'll just charge you the shipping for it. Click on the links in my sig for pics of my finished doors.

lil azn 06
03-11-2006, 07:22 PM
I guess I got lucky with my black goop. I used a puddy knife to kind of get it started and just kept working it up and off. I guess I would wait to get it wet or try chemicals as a last resort....that could get really messy.

To stop the back waves I used OverKill from SecondSkin and then glued a chunk of 100% waterproof camping pad that I got at Walmart. If you want some PM me and I'll just charge you the shipping for it. Click on the links in my sig for pics of my finished doors.

Your links dont work :( they take me to microsoft :crap:

Guy at Bestbuy said that they use oil removers at Autozone to remove that yellow crap... ill check it out.

So does pexiglass resonant? I was going to put dynomat over the pexiglass anyways if that matters.

Thanks

FoxPro5
03-11-2006, 07:42 PM
Your links dont work :( they take me to microsoft :crap:

Guy at Bestbuy said that they use oil removers at Autozone to remove that yellow crap... ill check it out.

So does pexiglass resonant? I was going to put dynomat over the pexiglass anyways if that matters.

Thanks

Links should work now. ;)

Not sure if the plexi will resonate, but I don't think a layer of mat over it will hurt. Could also use a piece of thick cardboard and then hit it on both sides with some deadener. I've also head of guys using wire mesh. I just used some shrink wrap window sealer follwed by several layers of sheet rock repair tape...it formed a nice web for a few coats of sludge, dampener, overkill and then more deadener. No resonance and still undoable in case I need to get in the door for some reason.

lil azn 06
03-12-2006, 10:32 AM
**** it took me 2 hours just to clean one frigging door... i still havent even applied dynomat on either...

FoxPro5
03-12-2006, 11:34 AM
**** it took me 2 hours just to clean one frigging door... i still havent even applied dynomat on either...

Yep it's a time consuming process. I bet I have 50-60 hours in deadening and sound proofing SO FAR ;) But this includes having practically my entire interior out.

If you guys need a place for a lot of this stuff that is relatively cheap, go to www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) They sell the acoustical foam, sound deadening, vibration control materials, and all sorts of cool stuff.

I have no particular allegiance to any company or brand (unless they want to sponsor me [hint!!];) ) so I just use the most cost effective stuff I know of that works. The best product comparison I have ever seen is at www.sounddeadenershowdown.com (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com)

Also, for those of you in colder climates, make sure you get something that is heavy and sticky because glue and frozen steel don't match up very well. That is why I chose Sludge because it won't fall off.

Here is my experience with eDead (I'm talking specifically about the original asphalt based peal n seal):

I put 2 layers of roofing repair tape that I got at Home Depot on my god forsaken heat shield last fall...yes underneath my car....and it is still going strong to this day - all winter long!! Keep in mind that this no more than a foot from the ground at all times, so it takes some abuse as it just gets caked with snow and salt and has survived the bitter cold temperatures down to -20 and the extreme heat from the midpipe which is like 3" away!!!

Now everytime I open my doors in the spring the f'ing eDead has started to fall off and is litterally just kind of hanging there. It sticks about as well as your *** going down a Slip 'n Slide!! I would take pics, but it is totally covered in SS Sludge.

This is Don's conclusion after all his testing and product comparison at sounddeadenershowdown:

If you really need to do this in the absolutely least expensive way and are not convinced or concerned by the demonstrated inferiority of asphalt based sound deadeners, go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a roll or two of Peel & Seal. This is the least expensive option and you won't have to worry about shipping costs. I can see no difference in Peel & Seal and the asphalt based aluminum skinned products in this review. If you are going to live dangerously, do it right.

lil azn 06
03-12-2006, 08:21 PM
Heres the door CLEANED... one whole day cleaning both doors... i hope applying dynamat is much faster...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_4567.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_4568.jpg


I do have a question though. In this pic you will see i put dynamat over the metal bar as well. MY question is, do i cut and put on an extra piece to cover the metal bar and use other pieces to go on the flat surfaces or does it not matter and i could cover up the flat part with the bar with one piece of dynamat?

Do i do this and put on seperate piece for the bar or

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_4569.jpg

altogether like this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/IMG_4568.jpg


Lastly, is 2 layers on the outer most panel more important or 2 layers on the inner panel more important? What do i do about parts i cant reach in the outer door panel? Just ignore it?
Thanks

FoxPro5
03-12-2006, 08:38 PM
Well first of all nice job on getting your doors prepped...**** those are clean!! In my door I just skipped the reinforcement bar all together I think. It looks like you got the skin well enough underneath the bar by the looks of your pics.

I would say that you would defineately want to put that second layer on the inner panel where the speaker is mounted rather than on the skin. Dynamat will help with a little with road keeping noise out and keeping your stereo noise in, but if you want to keep the road noise out then you want to use something like carpet padding or closed cell foam. If you've ever seen a recoding studio, the walls are covered with acoustical foam, not Dynamat!!

If you can't reach way up in there, then you can't reach way up in there! So yea, you will have to either ignore it or get really creative.

Nice work so far. Like anything else, you might as well do it right the first time. Kind of sux that those connecting rods are so long and in the way like that. You should be able to unscrew the handle and get underneath there with out bending them though.

I would suggest maybe rolling it down or using a plastic puddy knife to secure it to the surface a bit better. If you already did then nevermind, it's hard to tell from the pics.

lil azn 06
03-13-2006, 08:24 AM
Its raining... I seriously hope my doors arent getting dirty or im going to be pissed off.

AcidicDreams
03-13-2006, 08:36 AM
I had 2 gal of Eduh liquid stuff and it ****** too... it was too thick to spray on and I had to apply it by hand which was ghey!

FrEnChYII
03-19-2006, 01:44 AM
Ya for real that is mad clean man! Props on that! :)

lil azn 06
03-24-2006, 12:01 AM
Ya for real that is mad clean man! Props on that! :)

Thanks :)

Some more pics of it, i basically completely deadened the outer most skin on both doors, put 2 layers before the speaker as well with new clay and with the baffles removed and realized i ran out of time before my quickie vacation (during Spring Break) and nearly ran out of Dynamat.... :furious:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0042.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0035.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0038.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0039.jpg

All in all, i notice a HUGE difference in bass tightness already ( didnt even deaden the inner door skin really) plus when i knock on the door on the outside it dont sound hollow as before. OVerall the 3 days of work were worth it, and i also got a 9855 nicely setup and installed. :)

BodegaBay
03-24-2006, 12:58 AM
Mmmmm. Profi kicks. Looks familiar ;D
Do the inner skin door. Trust us -- there's more to deadened, especially if you're running those massive midbasses.

The real test is to see if any ungodgly boom, rattle, is transmitted outside while the music is at it's highest inside.

Kind of nice wrapping your knuckes on the outside door eh? Sounds German. Yaaa.

Decado
03-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Thanks :)

Some more pics of it, i basically completely deadened the outer most skin on both doors, put 2 layers before the speaker as well with new clay and with the baffles removed and realized i ran out of time before my quickie vacation (during Spring Break) and nearly ran out of Dynamat.... :furious:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0042.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0035.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0038.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/lilhplaya06/DSCN0039.jpg

All in all, i notice a HUGE difference in bass tightness already ( didnt even deaden the inner door skin really) plus when i knock on the door on the outside it dont sound hollow as before. OVerall the 3 days of work were worth it, and i also got a 9855 nicely setup and installed. :)

Definitely do the inner door skin, you think you notice a difference now? Wait till you do that. And also, seal up those big *** holes, you seal all those holes up on your inner panel and you'll have a HUGE increase in midbass.

lil azn 06
03-25-2006, 12:20 AM
Bodega Bay, you are using Profi kickbass? what are you powering it with?

Decado, i still dont know what to do about the door locking bars, its still going to leave an open space up there. any suggestions?

thanks

BodegaBay
03-25-2006, 12:29 AM
Lil: Yes, I'm currently running the CS265 Profi Kicks and believe me, you will need to line the inner door sking. I'm currently running them with passive x-overs with 320w per channel bridging the Arc 4150XXK. However, they do more than fine at 80w per using the same Arc but unbridged.

Decado
03-25-2006, 05:55 PM
Bodega Bay, you are using Profi kickbass? what are you powering it with?

Decado, i still dont know what to do about the door locking bars, its still going to leave an open space up there. any suggestions?

thanks

I can't rly see your locking bars, but what i did with mine was got some foam egg crate and packed it in there around the locking bar, it could still move but it helps attenuate. Polyfill will work too.

bean-a-reano
03-29-2006, 05:30 AM
Thanks for all the great info. I amd in the process of cutting od shapes and sizes of MDF to plug the doors.

ICBM99
03-30-2006, 05:46 PM
Great thread, hopefully I will start deadening soon, as the wife permits.

I was thinking of getting RAAMAT BXT, and some of their closed cell foam.

azngotskills
03-30-2006, 06:49 PM
Great thread, hopefully I will start deadening soon, as the wife permits.

I was thinking of getting RAAMAT BXT, and some of their closed cell foam.

I just ordered both of that stuff and getting it soon. Rick is a great guy to talk to and deal with. Nice choice.

KaPPaBaLL
05-30-2006, 04:29 AM
would papermashay(sp?) work in place of clay? some higher quality expensive clay for molding arts in the fine arts store. i bet that would work better than some $3 clay at walmart.

Crank
06-16-2006, 11:59 PM
Okay excuse my newbie ignorance, but i just read thru this entire thread and was wondering if a man already had the door off of something, would it be easier just to lay it down and paint on some sort of deadening material, also, are some people recommending packing foam into the door as fill as well as the speaker egg crate? Is this to add to the rigidity of the door or what? Also, when the clay+mdf rings, are alot of y'all able to fit the speakers behind the door panel still? Thanks.
Brandon

GrayMatter4tw
06-18-2006, 02:24 AM
is there still a second skin discount for forum members here?

Anthony Collova
06-18-2006, 11:36 AM
yup
go to www.secondskinaudio.com/forums to find out

adio
06-24-2006, 11:47 AM
what about treating the foam, what would you treat it with to keep it from growin mold and smelling????????

Bolognablake
06-25-2006, 07:21 PM
what about treating the foam, what would you treat it with to keep it from growin mold and smelling????????

Earlier in the thread Squeak mentioned that any treatments put on the foam would most likely reduce the foam's performance.

M5AM
06-25-2006, 11:11 PM
just purchase a closed cell foam.

adio
06-26-2006, 08:05 AM
just purchase a closed cell foam.
whats that and where can i get some from?

FoxPro5
06-26-2006, 09:13 AM
whats that and where can i get some from?

partsexpress.com
Walmart (camping pad)

FoxPro5
06-26-2006, 09:17 AM
Okay excuse my newbie ignorance, but i just read thru this entire thread and was wondering if a man already had the door off of something, would it be easier just to lay it down and paint on some sort of deadening material

Yes I used a few layers of SS Sludge just like this...worked great.


also, are some people recommending packing foam into the door as fill as well as the speaker egg crate? Is this to add to the rigidity of the door or what?

Just some form of closed cell foam to kill the standing waves in the door which can cause resonance....you know the what they use in the walls of a recording studio.


Also, when the clay+mdf rings, are alot of y'all able to fit the speakers behind the door panel still?

Yes because you are not putting it between the baffle and the door, just packing around it. At least I did not do it that way.

FoxPro5
06-26-2006, 09:19 AM
would papermashay(sp?) work in place of clay? some higher quality expensive clay for molding arts in the fine arts store. i bet that would work better than some $3 clay at walmart.

I think you want non-hardining clay. If it hardens, it will most likely resonate. Also if it hardened, you'd have a hell of a time getting it off.

saywhat?
06-26-2006, 09:23 AM
wuts so hard to understand that its NOT THAT EXPENSIVE to do it right for once. closed cell foam, and 3 dollar modeling clay. WHY would you go anything MORE expensive.....

M5AM
06-27-2006, 02:51 PM
whats that and where can i get some from?


I bought mine from raamaudio

Sragan
07-05-2006, 01:31 AM
yup
go to www.secondskinaudio.com/forums to find out

Now, wish I'd have known that prior to my 120sqft order of pro..... ;) :cool: (unbelievable results, by the way...}

Now to stir the pot a bit. Don't get the pitchforks and torches out just yet, I know how FNG's get treated on boards when going against the grain, but that's just the kinda guy I am. :crazy:


The gist of the original post I agree with most of, but there are a couple of points I take issue with. If I'm off here, please explain, something other than "but it works for three other guys I know, yo!", if you please.

I just finished applying damplifier pro to the entire cab of my F-150 ex-cab. Did the door skins, inner door frames, roof, blah blah. I chose not to cover the holes in the inner door frame, because it's a Ford, and I've had to change window motors on more than one, and prefer not to pull a Linda Lovelace on the 870 tactical when, not if, the motors in the 150 go out. I'll go with the need to cover the openings for improved results with the speakers, so long as everyone knows it's not completely sealed (drain holes in the bottom, gotta stay away from that standing water in the door).

Ditto on the foam behind the speaker. If you use closed cell foam you won't have to treat it, but definitely throw something behind there.

Here's my biggest issue in this. I'm glad the point of decoupling the speaker was brought up, but the reasoning behind it, and application is a bit off, I believe. Here's where I part paths in the thread. Clay between the speaker itself, and the spacer is not necessary, up to and including defeating the purpose. Decoupling the speaker is done so the speaker performs optimally, throughout it's entire range, not just to improve bass/mid-bass response. It's a by product, yes, but not the sole purpose. A seal between the door and spacer is necessary, so that the speaker doesn't resonate to the door. You're trying to isolate it. Use the ring to add mass to the basket, seal the basket to the ring solidly. A thin gasket layer between the spacer/basket and door itself will suffice. More to this in a bit...

After reading the thread, I discussed this with an engineer who happens to be a neighbor, and an audiophile, a serious one at that, after being dragged into his house so he could show me what he was getting at. He went so far as to lightly tear down a speaker cabinet to explain. The mid woofer and sub were solidly held into place tacked to 8 layer birch plywood, that's it (do a search on BagEnd loudspeakers for more info on what he's using). That said, I argued the point that the speakers were attached to wood not metal, and the "board" the woofer was attached to could be considered to be "decoupled" from the rest of the enclosure by whatever sealant. He conceded my point to argue separating the woofer yet again, using clay, from the spacer ring. Just how much will the basket of a midrange woofer resonate a piece of 3/4" MDF? Would it not resonate less than the basket itself, mass loading it (if you will) When securely attached (not with 4 screws mind you, but recessed bolts, as many as possible, clamping it, screws will only put so much clamping force)? Being a bit of a thinker, but slightly less edumacated, I went with that, and agreed. Makes total sense to me. He then suggested to me lexan, plexigalss, or acrylic, due to the fact that it's "acoustically dead", and handed me a small sheet of 1/4" to experiment with. Then suggested that I secure the "plate" I make as best I can, again using bolts, with a closed cell foam (I have a few 1/8" sheets of neoprene foam laying around) as a gasket between the new "basket/plate" and the metal of the door itself. Now, according to this (his) theory, the speaker will perform as efficiently as possible, and thinking it over, I really tend to agree with this, especially considering how you mount a subwoofer in a box.

Now, after that long winded explanation to my disagreement, here's the short version. Decoupling or isolating the speaker is strictly so the speaker can perform optimally, not simply to improve bass response (it's a byproduct), although for the more younger crowd, an easier way to get them into the habit of doing things properly (but along the way, let's tell 'em why). I will agree, MDF as a spacer ring to replace the plastic rings in factory locations is a good thing, and while clay will isolate the speaker, why risk the mess when a simple foam gasket will do the trick for a solidly mounted speaker/spacer? Not to mention, no one here knows the rate at which the clay will deteriorate over time, if it does at all.

I'm all about isolating the speaker from the door, I'm just not sure the original post is the best way to go about it. Over the next few days, I'm going to attempt to fab up acrylic plates, get photos of it being done, and hopefully post them up here to clear this mess of a post (mine) up.

If you need matches to light the torches, I'll be more than happy to supply you with them now, just bring tech, OK?

{Disclaimer: The above post contains strictly opinion, and second hand information, and is not meant to be taken as expert advice, gospel truth, or word to anyone's mother. It's subjective, and open to discussion. Use the above ramblings at your own risk.}

ItalynStylion
07-21-2006, 06:50 PM
Wow, i just spent the better part of 2 hours reading http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
That was the best write up I have ever seen on just about any topic. He will deff get a little paypal help when i get the chance!

I do have a question for anyone who can help me. Ive decided on the Damplifier sound deadener but im STILL not sure how much im going to need. I plan to do 50% coverage on both front doors and most of the rear deck in a Lexus IS300. Anyone have a decent EDUCATED guess on how much i will need?

TomBrooklyn
07-31-2006, 11:00 AM
Hi squeak,

How are you going to get the door panel back on? Doesn't the Deadener on the inside make the panel not sit right? And I suppose your're going to cut a hole in it to let the MDF spacer stick through? What do you do with that whole thing sticking out, put some kind of molding around it?

Mx3guy
08-04-2006, 09:44 PM
Ok I just finished deadening my doors with the peel n seal roofing stuff I only used 10 squared feet per door and the difference is amazing. My subs used to rattle the heck out of my doors at half vol. Now they bearly rattle at full vol. but the subs pretty much drowned it out, you have to get right up to the door to hear it. Any way I only spent $25 for 25 squared ft. at lowes. If you have trouble with subs rattleling your car you should get this stuff its cheap and works really well. There is a slight smell but not as bad as I thought it would be. Even my door speakers sound better. This stuff is a real good buy.

AJē06
08-04-2006, 10:27 PM
I NEED some!!

T3mpest
09-06-2006, 03:36 AM
Wow, i just spent the better part of 2 hours reading http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
That was the best write up I have ever seen on just about any topic. He will deff get a little paypal help when i get the chance!

I do have a question for anyone who can help me. Ive decided on the Damplifier sound deadener but im STILL not sure how much im going to need. I plan to do 50% coverage on both front doors and most of the rear deck in a Lexus IS300. Anyone have a decent EDUCATED guess on how much i will need?

I'd get 125 sq ft or so, whatever you don't use there you can always put somewhere else or double up.

ItalynStylion
09-11-2006, 10:52 AM
I'd get 125 sq ft or so, whatever you don't use there you can always put somewhere else or double up.

I finished the intstall last weekend and I must say im inpressed with how it turned out. I didnt get crazy with the deadener but the difference is unreal.

As a matter of fact one of my friends on the cross country team got in my car this morning and she said, "****, your car is sooo quite!"
Biggest...smile.....evar:D

ItalynStylion
09-11-2006, 10:53 AM
I used damplifier by the way. I would recommend it to anyone and suggest using nothing else....I know I won't

Glaucus
09-17-2006, 12:05 AM
Over the next few days, I'm going to attempt to fab up acrylic plates, get photos of it being done, and hopefully post them up here to clear this mess of a post (mine) up.So... any progress on this???

- Mike

Jared530
11-20-2006, 10:30 AM
i was wondering, instead up placing eg cartong foam inside your door panl, if its ok to put fiber glass in fora substitute, the reason is because i cant find any egg carton foam, and regular foam at fabric stores are about $30for a yard.

Buffalohed
01-22-2007, 08:42 PM
I think there are some misconceptions going around here. At least I have certainly ran into some after reading tons of pages on multiple forums about "sound deadening".

The most important thing imo is that sound deadening can be split into two categories:

1) Stopping rattles/reverberations from your car stereo
2) Dampening noise coming in from the outside

The problem is that almost everyone talks exclusively about the butyl/asphalt mass products designed to stop rattling and vibration in your car. These are great for what they do, especially if you have a system that causes stuff to rattle and shake. However, I am skeptical as to how much this actually helps stop road noise from entering your car! I am sure it works to an extent but it seems like a mixture of some other techniques more commonly used to dampen sound would have a greater effect.

I don't know very much about this so I am posting this mainly as a question. Say if you did not plan on playing an extremely loud system, therefore having few instances of stereo induced rattling, but wanted a high level of dampening from outside sound, what should you do to your car?

Foam, carpet padding, fiberglass, extra layers of butyl, caulking? What should you use and where should you put it? In my car, a ton of noise comes in from the engine compartment through the firewall. Should I load up the area with flame retardant foam, or something else?

Thanks.

phatcat600
01-23-2007, 09:17 PM
:crap: I just applied deadener to the plastic panel that comes off...I thought that was what was meant by inner door skin. Is this completely worthless?

Lil Poot
01-23-2007, 09:21 PM
:crap: I just applied deadener to the plastic panel that comes off...I thought that was what was meant by inner door skin. Is this completely worthless?

yes. deadener is for stopping metal from resonating.

phenryiv1
01-23-2007, 09:28 PM
Say if you did not plan on playing an extremely loud system, therefore having few instances of stereo induced rattling, but wanted a high level of dampening from outside sound, what should you do to your car?

Foam, carpet padding, fiberglass, extra layers of butyl, caulking? What should you use and where should you put it? In my car, a ton of noise comes in from the engine compartment through the firewall. Should I load up the area with flame retardant foam, or something else?

Thanks.
Closed cell foam. Line your floor, inner door skin, roof (?), interior fenders, and firewall with it. Also, caulk or foam any gaps where sound might be transferred through a passageway.

Also, you can fill your frame rails, trunk support beams, and floor crossmembers with the NON-pressure expanding foam for windows and doors (this is really important). http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=15634-236-230612&lpage=none

phatcat600
01-23-2007, 10:17 PM
:( what a waste of deadener

phatcat600
01-23-2007, 10:18 PM
plus I already ripped out all the stock insulation stuff....ouch

ironchef b
01-30-2007, 05:35 AM
Also, you can fill your frame rails, trunk support beams, and floor crossmembers with the NON-pressure expanding foam for windows and doors (this is really important). http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=15634-236-230612&lpage=none

By any chance do you or someone else have any pics of this application especially the bolded part???

phenryiv1
01-30-2007, 09:14 AM
By any chance do you or someone else have any pics of this application especially the bolded part???
I will be taking pics as I do it. I have seen pics online, and it seems to work well, for the cost. (Some) luxury cars have this foam from the factory.

Buffalohed
01-31-2007, 10:35 PM
I will be taking pics as I do it. I have seen pics online, and it seems to work well, for the cost. (Some) luxury cars have this foam from the factory.
This and your previous post were very helpful. Thank you.

John Scaro
02-15-2007, 10:48 PM
I need some info on deadners. RAAMmat, Second Skin, E Dead, the list goes on. Well which is better and why? Is there any that I should stay away from?

Thanks!

mntnceguy
02-19-2007, 01:12 AM
Go here, read this:

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

Then go here to get the best stuff:

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

And check out the forum there for more good info and help

John Scaro
02-19-2007, 11:24 PM
Go here, read this:

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

Then go here to get the best stuff:

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

And check out the forum there for more good info and help

Good reading Thanks! :thumbupw:

I went with RAAMmat for the floors, backwall, rear doors and misc and the SecondSkin for the front doors. Now I just need time to do it!!!!

XanderMoser
03-17-2007, 11:04 PM
Has anyone tried this spray-on deadener from Cascade at Parts Express?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=268-250

It only costs $16 per can, and it is supposed to cover at least one door per can. Granted, I have a 2 door with longer than normal doors, but this would be much much cheaper for me and I am on a strict budget. I just want some deadening to improve my midbass and not add a ton of weight. I would also be plugging up the holes in my door skin and adding a closed cell foam egg shell pad behind my speakers. Would it be worth it?

Anthony Collova
03-18-2007, 07:46 PM
Has anyone tried this spray-on deadener from Cascade at Parts Express?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=268-250

It only costs $16 per can, and it is supposed to cover at least one door per can. Granted, I have a 2 door with longer than normal doors, but this would be much much cheaper for me and I am on a strict budget.

Consider that you need about 3 to 4 cans to properly dampen a single door, it becomes less and less affordable.
Go with full gallon and split it up between 2 doors. That would be better

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

4frogger
04-03-2007, 02:13 AM
Now, after that long winded explanation to my disagreement, here's the short version. Decoupling or isolating the speaker is strictly so the speaker can perform optimally, not simply to improve bass response (it's a byproduct), although for the more younger crowd, an easier way to get them into the habit of doing things properly (but along the way, let's tell 'em why). I will agree, MDF as a spacer ring to replace the plastic rings in factory locations is a good thing, and while clay will isolate the speaker, why risk the mess when a simple foam gasket will do the trick for a solidly mounted speaker/spacer? Not to mention, no one here knows the rate at which the clay will deteriorate over time, if it does at all.

}[/i]

Can Anyone chime in on this? Should I just use foam as opposed to clay for reasons as stated by Sragan? I do agree with him as far as rate at which clay will deteriorate, esp during hot summers and open/closing doors often (clay shifting of sliding downwards).

krisfnbz
04-05-2007, 01:11 PM
1992 Civic LX Deadening Job pics.... at the following link

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225604

AMA
04-15-2007, 09:45 PM
Maybe I missed it in the 20 pages of this thread, but those of you who have used this technique:

what did you use to treat the MDF?

Cause if it gets wet or collects to much moisture it will warp and crack.

Thankx

Decado
04-15-2007, 10:56 PM
Maybe I missed it in the 20 pages of this thread, but those of you who have used this technique:

what did you use to treat the MDF?

Cause if it gets wet or collects to much moisture it will warp and crack.

Thankx

I never treated the MDF and I've had it in there for more than a year now and no signs of cracking or warping. Besides, couldn't treating it cause it to become resonant?

phenryiv1
04-16-2007, 08:24 AM
Maybe I missed it in the 20 pages of this thread, but those of you who have used this technique:

what did you use to treat the MDF?

Cause if it gets wet or collects to much moisture it will warp and crack.

Thankx
I made my spacers out of high-density PVC that was 1" thick. I used roll deadener as a gasket between the spacer and the door.

it was expensive (as compared to MDF) but it will never rot out.

WantedIsHere
04-16-2007, 08:45 AM
I personally always use a weather proof spray paint and do 3-4 coats just for caution... i dont see many people treat their wood often but i personally do... In general i like to use the apliance epoxy spray paint... its like 5 bucks a can but i have only gone through two cans in about 7 years...

Decado
04-18-2007, 06:18 PM
I personally always use a weather proof spray paint and do 3-4 coats just for caution... i dont see many people treat their wood often but i personally do... In general i like to use the apliance epoxy spray paint... its like 5 bucks a can but i have only gone through two cans in about 7 years...

I also like to treat my wood often :naughty:. Sorry, I just had to say it :laugh:.

chibahawk
05-21-2007, 09:36 PM
just started deadening my doors today. question for people in the know. im a plumber and we've got plumbers putty that we use to seal up sink drains, shower drains, and basically anything we want to prevent from leaking - ive swiped a few containers from my van to use on the mdf rings.

the container says "keep away from strong oxidizers"
--problem= im not a scientist.

can i use this putty instead of clay?