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View Full Version : Flat Panels - Please Read, need help



Echo42987
04-11-2005, 06:36 PM
Okay, my dad wants to know what is the main difference between these two kind of TV's.

The Pioneer Elite is a 43" Flat Panel and costs $6499

Then we found a Panasonic TH42PD25UP for only $3,000.

My father Mainly wants to know is it really worth the $3,000 gap!? And if it is WHY, whats the big difference between then two. They are both the same size, etc. Please I need real details. He wants to know what, why, etc.

I mean it doesn't just have to be that Panasonic. you can throw somethin' else in there, but he wants to know if the Pioneer Elite, if it is really worth that much money!

JimJ
04-11-2005, 06:39 PM
What's the technology used by both...

PV Audio
04-11-2005, 07:13 PM
DUDE ECHO. if we're talking about the 43'' plasma (not elite, no difference really), GET IT. it is one of the MOST beautiful tvs ever made imo. my dad bought that exact model around february, and you'd swear that you're standing on the sidelines during march madness (HD required, of couse).

Echo42987
04-11-2005, 07:15 PM
Wait lemans...which one did your dad buy the Panasonic?

And Frost, I have no idea what the technology is thats what I'm asking lol!

PV Audio
04-11-2005, 07:17 PM
Wait lemans...which one did your dad buy the Panasonic?

And Frost, I have no idea what the technology is thats what I'm asking lol!
no the pioneer, the panasonic ones are just ok. i still have yet to see a prettier tv than that (and believe me, we've looked at 'em all).

Echo42987
04-11-2005, 07:18 PM
What's so special about the Pioneer though!? Is it really worth the $6,000 when probably in five years from now they'll have some kind of new TV?

PV Audio
04-11-2005, 07:26 PM
What's so special about the Pioneer though!? Is it really worth the $6,000 when probably in five years from now they'll have some kind of new TV?
read broly. i said the regular pioneer 43". there is nearly no difference between the regular and the elite. you're paying for the name ;)

Echo42987
04-11-2005, 07:29 PM
So you don't even have the Elite, you just have a standard Flat Panel from Pioneer? How much was that and whats the model #?

Echo42987
04-11-2005, 09:11 PM
Bump-Guys I really need the help right now. Want to get this system this week but I need to know the differences, is it worth buying now then in the long run there just being a way better model, etc.

Echo42987
04-11-2005, 09:19 PM
Bump

PV Audio
04-11-2005, 09:26 PM
So you don't even have the Elite, you just have a standard Flat Panel from Pioneer? How much was that and whats the model #?
we got it at costco for 2600

http://pioneerusa.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4123_136753505,00.html

tis that, but its no where near that price in any stores. i dunno wtf that dvd thing is on the right, cause we didn't get it. actually, its a year behind that, but all they changed was the paint from all black to 2-tone

bean
04-12-2005, 09:53 AM
Buy the elite...... Lot's of differences... Most noticeably the piano gloss black finish on the case. Tis' a work of art hanging from the wall...... Yeah, I know.... that has nothing to do with performance...
All elite parts are hand chosen. better warranty, better picture, black contrast is better than any other plasma TV in the universe.

bean
04-12-2005, 09:55 AM
Lemans, when people want to buy "better gear"............. Let them. Don't take offense to this, you often make recommendations to people based on a budget that is not theirs. Make sense? The guy wants to buy a $6000 TV. Extreme? Yeah, for you and I.... Obviously not to him. It IS a better set so let him buy it.

req
04-12-2005, 10:00 AM
the 'upgrades' you stated in that post bean do not outweigh almost $4000 in my eyes. not in the least bit.

i say go for the $2,600 one. because in all reality, it prolly costs them $200 per screen or LESS for production costs :rolleyes:

bean
04-12-2005, 10:53 AM
i'm researching the real differences right now.... get back to you soon. I understand your reserve.

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 05:36 PM
the 'upgrades' you stated in that post bean do not outweigh almost $4000 in my eyes. not in the least bit.

i say go for the $2,600 one. because in all reality, it prolly costs them $200 per screen or LESS for production costs :rolleyes:
;) a piano black finish is not worth 4000 dollars.

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 05:37 PM
Plasma has serious drawbacks that most people don't take into account ... Do you know what they are ? If not, research more ...

IIRC, Sony had the best Plasma TV in Conumer Reports Canada's comparison test comprising of several hundred participants ...
all i know is serious image burning, but the pioneer has a warranty that if you ever get image burn, they'll replace it or with the equivilent model at that time.

monte_carlo97
04-12-2005, 05:40 PM
Plasma has serious drawbacks that most people don't take into account ... Do you know what they are ? If not, research more ...

IIRC, Sony had the best Plasma TV in Conumer Reports Canada's comparison test comprising of several hundred participants ...
i was just going to say something about that. Plasma's are not all they are cracked out to be.

bean
04-12-2005, 05:40 PM
Sorry, haven't had much time to get into this..... Yeah, I know.... No one in their right mind would pay 4 g's for piano gloss finish. I get it.

But here's the only draw back to plasma..... It is succeptible (spelling) to burn in. Truth is, nearly all tv's are in danger of burn in. It's been a problem with television since they were invented.
So the question becomes, when do you need to worry about it?...... If the image your TV is displaying doesn't change for hours and hours...... One example I'll give is.... CNN's little stock ticker that appears at the bottom of the screen. If you watched CNN everyday all day there is a real good chance you'd experience a burned image of the line at the top of the ticker thing. Make sense?
More on the difference in these sets soon.... I'm busy.

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 06:07 PM
There are many other problems with Plasma than just burn-in ...

They're extremely inefficient (300-800 watts depending on size) resulting in inflated electricity bills and reduced long-term reliability if you watch it regularly ... To compare, a conventional television of similar size will consume about half the amount while most similar-sized LCDs will consume about 1/3-1/4 the amount.

Then there's weight ... Plasmas are ****ing heavy despite being so thin ... Considering a lot of people who buy plasmas intend to install them on the wall, that's not good ... Nor is the fact that they're really quite fragile ... Nor is the fact that the inefficiency results in a lot of heat (see halogen lamps + house fires) ...

Also, you cannot simply replace the lamp if it ever burns out, you have to buy a whole new TV ...

Then there's the cost ...
james, think for a minute. if u can afford to buy a plasma at all, then high electricity bills and the like are going to be of little concern.

bean
04-12-2005, 06:07 PM
Jmac,

Heay.... I'd guess the average is 60-70 lbs. Two wall studs will support that no problem.

Fragile.... Yeah, they used to be. Many companies couldn't sell them without their own people delivering them or it would void warranty. This isn't the case anymore.

Inefficient.. Yeah, I'll give you that. But, most don't realize how inefficient the sets they're wathcing now are. Rear projection is super ineffiecient.

Replacement of lamp..... Most are expected to last 12 - 15 years

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 06:27 PM
Most Plasmas are 100-150 lbs ... A conventional Big Screen is 125-200 lbs ...

Most CRT rear projection televisions, big screen or not, will consume less than 300 watts ... Take the Sony KP57WS520 57" Rear Projection TV ... 295 watts ... Compare that to Sony's 55" Plasma at 573 watts ... That's almost double the power consumption ...

Most are EXPECTED to last 12-15 years, but it's NEW technology ... They don't know that for sure ...
they are not that heavy, more around the 70-80 lb range :rolleyes: and i know this because i helped my dad install ours.

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 06:40 PM
37" Plasma WEGA® High Definition Television Weight: 112 lbs. 7 oz. (51 kg)
42" Plasma WEGA® High Definition Television Weight: 124 lbs. 9oz. (56.5kg)
50" Plasma WEGA® High Definition Television Weight: 149 lbs. 14.5 oz. (68 kg)

Jmac I'm sorry but comparing that weight to a frickin' 55" projection NO CAMPRISON!

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 06:48 PM
Most Plasmas are 100-150 lbs ... A conventional Big Screen is 125-200 lbs ...

Most CRT rear projection televisions, big screen or not, will consume less than 300 watts ... Take the Sony KP57WS520 57" Rear Projection TV ... 295 watts ... Compare that to Sony's 55" Plasma at 573 watts ... That's almost double the power consumption ...

Most are EXPECTED to last 12-15 years, but it's NEW technology ... They don't know that for sure ...

If you compare the long term cost of Plasma to a conventional big screen or LCD, it gets killed ... Mind you, CRT doesn't offer very good image quality with larger screens and LCD has blurring issues with motion ...

The best right now, IMO, are the "microdisplay" televisions ... They offer a good compromise of everything (cost, efficiency, size, image quality). LCD will most likely be the best in the future once they take care of the blurring ...

Also lets get off of the weight issue, completley irrelevant to what I need to know...thanks

But the Elite was given an average life of 20 years. I'm sorry they don't just say stuff like that unless it's true. They could get sued etc. So I do believe them when the say this will last 20 years and the cheaper model will only last 10 years.

Also Projection and any other large screen tv is going to burn out. Yeah you have to buy a whole new plasma if your plasma goes out. But I'm sure over the years they'll re-invent a way that you won't have too.

Also the amount of power!? Honestly isn't going to bother my father when it comes to raising the electric bill $10 a month. But thank you for that insight.

Lastly, I was looking into this http://www.crutchfield.com/S-DfwCE0oNy4q/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54000&I=119HTS5100&search=monster+power
Is this really necessary? Because thats a lot of money and our current system is just running off of a regular 12 stage plug in.

So I haven't really gotten to many replies on the Pioneer Elite or if I should stick to the lower model? As much as I like that Pioneer Elite, WHAT are the differences. Why does it cost $6,000? Thats what I really need to know and that was still my original question. What techonology is in it that makes it so expensive. And lets say comparing to that sony or panasonic that are $3,000 cheaper, why is their a difference between the two. I know there is our else the price would be so dramatic? But I want to know why!?

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 06:50 PM
46" Hi-Scan™ Widescreen Rear Projection HDTV Ready TV Weight: 135 lbs. (61.3kg)
51" Hi-Scan™ Widescreen Rear Projection HDTV Ready TV Weight: 170 lbs. (77.2 kg)
57" Hi-Scan™ Widescreen Rear Projection HDTV Ready TV Weight: 194 lbs. (88 kg)

55" XBR® Plasma WEGA® TV Weight: 132 lbs 5 oz (62kg)

I'm sure their are light ones out there, but the average is more then that. But off this issue please

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:03 PM
Bump...really need some help here guys!

nosaj070
04-12-2005, 07:04 PM
Also lets get off of the weight issue, completley irrelevant to what I need to know...thanks

But the Elite was given an average life of 20 years. I'm sorry they don't just say stuff like that unless it's true. They could get sued etc. So I do believe them when the say this will last 20 years and the cheaper model will only last 10 years.

That does not mean the thing is going to play tv for 20 years straight. They burn out, and I've seen it happen one one of my friends, as well as 3 in my fathers office in under 3 years.


Also Projection and any other large screen tv is going to burn out. Yeah you have to buy a whole new plasma if your plasma goes out. But I'm sure over the years they'll re-invent a way that you won't have too.


They are much more proven technologies, and they last longer. Friend of mine has a 25 year old front projection big screen and the thing is still kicking. And I can assure you they will not create a cheap way to fix your tv, they want you to buy a new one...



Also the amount of power!? Honestly isn't going to bother my father when it comes to raising the electric bill $10 a month. But thank you for that insight.


Difference shouldn't be that high, but assuming it is, I have a feeling 120 bucks a year could be better spent

Just spend the money, or wait, and get an LCD, they've been proven over and over to be much better TV's.

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:08 PM
Well I understand what your saying and all. But the Pioneer is going to be under warranty as well. But let me paint you a picture.

If I get LCD/Projection you can't see it unless your sitting right in front of it. Only two chair will be in front of it then. And the nice long coach will run along the side of it. So who ever gets stuck sitting there gets the short end of the stick.

I don't need top of the line Pioneer. But I might be confused is the LCD still Flat Panel, they are just cheaper and don't get that burn on them?

So far you guys have only stated that w/ the plasmas they burn out really fast!? But that'll all be covered by the warranty for the next three+ years. Now would you still say don't get it or no?

JimJ
04-12-2005, 07:09 PM
Plasma isn't the be-all, end all :)

I saw a demonstration last year by TI at an NY technology show...they had an array of 1'x1' panels that used their latest DLP chip...each panel could be independently controlled or linked together, each had multiple fail-safes for the projector, lamps, etc.

Going price was $25,000 per panel, and let me say...the picture quality beats any plasma I've seen :veryhapp:

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:10 PM
Thanx Frost! lol

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:12 PM
SO yeah whats the difference between the LCD's and the Plasmas. Are the LCD's the same thing as a projection screen!?

The majority of you don't think the Plasma is really worth it!? I mean the picture on that Pioneer is just so incredable...I just don't understand why they would cost $6000 for a television.

nosaj070
04-12-2005, 07:13 PM
No, LCD's are currently more expensive. They also have SLIGHTLY worse picture quality. You need to decide whether you want reliability, energy savings, lack of burn in, and length of use over a slight degradation in quality. Here is an excellent website comparing the two.

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/plasma-vs-lcd.html

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:13 PM
That does not mean the thing is going to play tv for 20 years straight. They burn out, and I've seen it happen one one of my friends, as well as 3 in my fathers office in under 3 years.
Were they Pioneer Elites!?

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:14 PM
No, LCD's are currently more expensive. They also have SLIGHTLY worse picture quality. You need to decide whether you want reliability, energy savings, lack of burn in, and length of use over a slight degradation in quality. Here is an excellent website comparing the two.

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/plasma-vs-lcd.html


Fricking awsome man I've been waiting for someone to post somethin' like that! Hopefully it's exactly what I need. I'll read it then really quick!

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:15 PM
0.404 kilowatts x 6 hours a day x 365 days = 884.76 kWh

Searching online, the energy rates in Illinois are about 7.793 cents/kWh, so it would cost you about $68.95/year in electricity ...

363 watts for the TV + 41 watts for the receiver of the Pioneer ...
Honestly it's fine...

It isn't my money and my dad doesn't care he said...

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 07:21 PM
37" Plasma WEGA® High Definition Television Weight: 112 lbs. 7 oz. (51 kg)
42" Plasma WEGA® High Definition Television Weight: 124 lbs. 9oz. (56.5kg)
50" Plasma WEGA® High Definition Television Weight: 149 lbs. 14.5 oz. (68 kg)
oh my goodness, 3 tvs all by the same manufacturer! essentially the same tv!

nosaj070
04-12-2005, 07:21 PM
Were they Pioneer Elites!?

No one was a Panny, and conveniently the ones in my dads office were Mitsubishi, although he works for Philips...sigh...it was like 3 years ago...

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 07:24 PM
Fricking awsome man I've been waiting for someone to post somethin' like that! Hopefully it's exactly what I need. I'll read it then really quick!
buy the plasma, TRUST me. we have the 43" pioneer upstairs and a 30" phillips lcd downstairs, and you cannot even begin to compare the image quality. now, thats not saying that all LCDs are bad, but most cannot touch the image quality of plasma, drawbacks or not. just my .02.

:)

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 07:25 PM
sigh...it was like 3 years ago...
so...for how long has the technology been consumer affordable and recognized?

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:30 PM
Okay after reading the information given to me from the website that nosaj gave me the Plasmas really don't compare to the LCDS.

The plasmas beat it in every catergory I'm more worried about. Such as Picture quality, Color, the angles it will be viewed from, etc. The only thing I'm worried about is the "burn-in" factor and the life. But I can care less how much power it takes up, and how much it costs to make etc. lol But that website was more then helpful!

But still I need to know lol...What is the difference between the HIGH end Pioneer Elite Plasma screen and a Panasonic Plasma screen that is $3000 cheaper!?

PV Audio
04-12-2005, 07:35 PM
Okay after reading the information given to me from the website that nosaj gave me the Plasmas really don't compare to the LCDS.

The plasmas beat it in every catergory I'm more worried about. Such as Picture quality, Color, the angles it will be viewed from, etc. The only thing I'm worried about is the "burn-in" factor and the life. But I can care less how much power it takes up, and how much it costs to make etc. lol But that website was more then helpful!

like i said ;)

no need for the elite, you're paying for the name

Echo42987
04-12-2005, 07:51 PM
Okay then...so just stick with some king of plasma though and I'll be just fine!

bean
04-13-2005, 09:18 AM
One more thing the Pioneer has that the pana doesn't is an IEEE digital output for Hi-Def recording.... That's cool

eddiem67
04-13-2005, 12:46 PM
OK, I cant believe no one has answered your question. The difference between these two tv's is one i HD and the other ED.

The Pioneer listed has 1024x720 resolution and is true High Definition.
The Panasonic is only 852x480 resolution and is only Enhanced def, between these the pioneer is the better tv, that is why such a big jump.

If you decide to go LCD, which I recommend, look at the sharp LC-45GD-4U, the tv has 1920x1080 resolution and cost about the same as the pioneer, but will definitely blow it away picture wise. If you stick to plasma go with a NEC. pro for plasma, thinner thats about it.

PV Audio
04-13-2005, 04:41 PM
:laugh:
i'm glad that you find my knowledge of things that i own to be a source of dry humor

SirSyko
04-22-2005, 08:55 PM
I think plasma TVs have terrible picture quality. Id rather get a Sony CRT. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-34-HDTV-KD-34XBR960-/sem/rpsm/oid/96194/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do



"With flat panel TVs emerging nowadays such as plasmas and LCDs, most consumers are highly misinformed and believe that the quality of a flat panel is better than that of a tube (CRT) TV. This is not true at all. The image quality of a plasma or LCD TVsfar inferior to a CRT, such as the Sony KD-34XBR960. Even worse, more and more people are buying these flat panel TVs as a 'status symbol' and do not understand true picture quality. Why do you think studios use CRT monitors during production and ediing instead of a plasma TV? Most studios want the best, most accurate picture possible, so they use CRT monitors. The quality of the Sony KD-34XBR960 is much like a studio monitor, and surpasses all other displays regardless of cost. The dot pitch iso fine and the picture has so much realism to the point where all other displays look dull and muddy in comparison."

HeadBussa86
05-14-2005, 03:01 AM
You're pretty much wasting your money to pay Pioneer to put Elite on that TV, get the standard 43" for like 2000 less, the Panasonic is an EDTV, it accepts an HD signal but downconverts it to 480P, or progressive scan DVD quality. The Panasonic and Pioneer both have 7th generation panels that last between 30,000-40,000 hours. Get HD, and EDTV is a waste of money I don't care what anyone says, they're like fake Rolexes. That XBR960 also weighs 250 pounds, maybe that's why some people don't want it. Also why would anyone one go to plasmatvbuyingguide.com to compare LCD vs. plasma that's just stupid, that's like going in to a Ford dealership and asking if a Chevy is better ha.