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View Full Version : Anybody good with veneer on MDF?



JimJ
04-08-2005, 12:01 AM
Not talking about the cheap substitutes Parts Express has...anyone here have experience with real veneer on MDF jobs. If so, I've got a proposition to make :up2somet:

Need some boxes built. If you've done veneering jobs before, feel free to PM me and I'll give you the info for a quote :veryhapp:

bcarpenterfhl
04-08-2005, 12:05 AM
what is veneer? is it that wood stick-on panel stuff?

JimJ
04-08-2005, 12:07 AM
Yeah.

But real cabinet-grade veneer is miles better than the roll-on crap PE stocks.

bcarpenterfhl
04-08-2005, 12:09 AM
hmm...couldnt be that hard to do. have you tried doing it yourself?

JimJ
04-08-2005, 12:11 AM
have you tried doing it yourself?

1.) I live in a dorm room.
2.) All of my tools bigger than a socket wrench and soldering iron are currently 200 miles away.
3.) I'd like to get this done before I move out for summer.
4.) Unfortunately, my teachers don't share my notion that audio > school, so I have these annoying things called classes to go to :(

All of those add up to me not being able to do any fabrication until the summer, at the earliest.

bcarpenterfhl
04-08-2005, 12:12 AM
oh. how did you plan on constructing your box to begin with?

JimJ
04-08-2005, 12:13 AM
Having the same guy who builds it doing the finishing :)

THUNDERBIRD
04-08-2005, 12:14 AM
not hard to do man get the cement for it put it on both surfaces and let it tack up and put paint sticks in between and pull out from the center working ur way out making sure u get no air bubbles. just like linolium
use some walnut or mohagany

bcarpenterfhl
04-08-2005, 12:16 AM
how do you cut it. i thought it was rather thick, are air bubbles really that much of an issue?

Beat_Dominator
04-08-2005, 02:07 AM
Think you just use a carpenter's knife to cut it.

If you leave too large of a bubble the verneer will crack very easily.

jtomsic
04-08-2005, 03:17 AM
my grandpap can do it, hes owned/ran a cabinet shop here forever. he did our entire kitchen

JimJ
04-08-2005, 03:29 AM
Think he could build speaker cabinets and give me a quote if I gave him the exact dimensions? :D

VOA_NIGHTMARE
04-08-2005, 03:36 AM
To cut it you go to lowes or someplace and they have blades you put in the utility knives. Its like doing a kitchen floor ( i use to install flooring) it will be called either a hook blade, or I forget the other name the call it but it has 2 ends that look like a C and its a safe easy way of cutting stuff like that. You just take it slow.For the bubbles, you would need to use a HEAVY roller. Something with weight that will really stick it down, once you have a bubble that you cant get out your fukd. A small hole in it will make it peel away very easy.

SPL140.2
04-08-2005, 03:40 AM
cant you cut it with using a router like when doing countertops? Or is it to delicate?

VOA_NIGHTMARE
04-08-2005, 03:46 AM
I havent worked with the stuff, but its the same style as vynal. It is very weak while it is not glued down. You have to be easy with it because you can make a mis cut soooo easy and mess it all up. And it will tear with your hands with NO problem. But once it is glued down and in place and sets its stronger than anything. Have you ever tried to tear up a kitchen floor, it is a pain in the butt to get the stuff up will take a while as long as the install laid it down right. A 12x12 room will take hrs to tear up and scrape, as long as it was installed right. Yet then you see other floors were the guy does a half fast job on the outsides and not the WHOLE thing and it rips tears easy.

JimJ
04-08-2005, 03:51 AM
Which is why I hate linoleum floors with a passion...I have almost as much disdain for them as I do wallpaper.

SPL140.2
04-08-2005, 03:52 AM
How thick is the veneer? Anyways I just did my kitchen last week! It was a big pain in the @ss. There were like 5 different layers of vynal, and linoleum. It ******.

VOA_NIGHTMARE
04-08-2005, 03:57 AM
1. Preparation: Be sure that both surfaces are clean and free of dust. Clean the back of the veneer sheet as well as the substrate with air pressure and wipe down with denatured alcohol (do not flood). The sheet veneer and the substrate should be acclimatized together for at least 24 hours (48 hours is best) before bonding.

2. Adhesive: In most shops, the adhesive of choice is contact cement. This is not necessarily the best, but it is the easiest to use. The adhesive you choose is the insurance policy on your work. In the eyes of your customer, if the glue fails, you fail.

Remember that contact cement is a flexible adhesive designed to glue a rigid overlay, such as plastic laminate. With sheet veneer, you are using a flexible adhesive to glue a flexible overlay. Because of this, you must use a different method of application.

A) Always use 100% coverage on both the back of the veneer sheet and the face of the substrate. As a rule, use twice as much adhesive as you would when gluing plastic laminate.

B) Give the adhesive the right amount of dry down time. You don’t want to trap gases that can later cause blisters. The time can vary depending on ambient moisture, airflow around your work area, and ambient temperature. Check with your adhesive supplier to find the dry down time that is right for your conditions and the adhesive you are using.

C) If possible, use a PVA (yellow or white glue) or a urea resin in a press for the best bond.

3. Bonding: Bonding is the second most important part of your job. The desired bond makes two pieces one. It is reached with the proper amount of adhesive and pressure. You can apply a lot of pressure all at one time (using a wood scraper) or consistent pressure over a long period of time (using a vacuum press).

With contact adhesive, you will need a lot of pressure all at one time. You can buy or make your own wood scraper, which should be 4-5 inches wide. Starting in the center of the surface to be bonded, pull the scraper in the direction of the grain. Push down with both hands, as hard as possible, moving over 3 - 4 inches at a time until you have covered the entire surface.

To quote a speaker at the Wood & Wood Products Veneer Seminar in 1998, “If you are not wet with sweat when you finish scraping down a sheet veneer job, then you didn’t apply enough pressure.”

Do not use a J-roller to apply sheet veneer—it will not apply enough pressure to make an intimate bond. This is one point on which all sheet veneer manufacturers agree. A J-roller will void your warranty if used on sheet veneer. Using a J-roller can result in a series of blisters every 16 - 20 inches when trying to roll out a full sheet of veneer or a large conference table. This is the distance at which the point of pressure is lost due to the extension of your arms.

4. Time: After you have bonded the sheet veneer to the substrate, allow the piece to sit. In order for contact cement to work, a chemical reaction must take place. This reaction produces gas, which must escape from the edges and surface before the seal coat is applied. Wait at least 4 - 6 hours before applying any sealers or finishes to a veneered surface.

5. Finishing: You have taken two products (sheet veneer and substrate) and by bonding, formed them into one. You have used two products with the tendency to expand and contract and bonded them with a flexible adhesive (contact cement). Now, in the finishing process, you will be applying a liquid.

When you begin your finishing process, remember this: Wood moves when moisture is added to or taken away from.

Be sure to apply the sealer in stages. A sealer coat sprayed in a very fine mist often works with great success. Don’t flood the wood surface all in one coat. When you apply a heavy amount of liquid over sheet veneer glued with contact cement, you risk movement and ultimately cracking or blistering in the finish. The following causes this:

A) Not enough adhesive was used.
B) Not enough pressure was applied to form an intimate bond.
C) The finish was rushed and gas from the adhesive was not allowed to flash off.

I hope these hints help you to make a better product. Until we talk, Good Veneering!

VOA_NIGHTMARE
04-08-2005, 03:58 AM
Were you gona get your veneer at, online? I might look for some local and throw some on my box and see how it comes out I looked online and prices are dirt cheap for some of it.

SPL140.2
04-08-2005, 03:59 AM
Good info :D

VOA_NIGHTMARE
04-08-2005, 04:06 AM
Should of called me I would of did it, if you ever need carpet or stuff done I got the tools I use to work for lowes as a installer then I was gona do it on my own, but decided to go back to my other job and I do flooring now here and there.

But veneer I believe is 5 layers. But it can varry on the products

NeverEnuffBass
04-08-2005, 11:48 AM
1.) 4.) Unfortunately, my teachers don't share my notion that audio > school, so I have these annoying things called classes to go to :(

All of those add up to me not being able to do any fabrication until the summer, at the earliest.

I feel your pain there, bro. That's why I dropped out and going to car audio school this fall.

Defconx3
04-08-2005, 10:53 PM
Ill build one for you for $990743270200.97 dollars.

I will be waiting for your PM.








:D